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Is it a smart idea to give your overlord a CCB?

Short story: no.

Long story: You need to build an entire list around it. You need to have multiple threats coming towards your enemy at the same time at the same speed, else it gets shot down immediately. Sweeping attack is borderline useless now in 6th. Overall, it's heavily overcosted and not worth the points. Build an AB instead as those are amazing.

but what ive heard is the CCB a good choice.

Share the reasoning with us then.

the CCB is a chariot so your overlord gets a 2+ save and you get HOW (D6 S6 hits)
He can kill tanks and weak or units containing few models.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Why wouldnt you give your overlord a CCB?

The problem with him is that units can attack the barge in CC against its rear armor 11. This allows things like krak grenades a good chance of killing it. If an FAQ changes something about chariots, like force the enemy to target the rider in melee then it might be worth it.

So chariots are disposable missiles that allow a turn 2 charge? Still seems good... Is the point that destroyer lords are better because they are cheaper?

The thing is that you need to get close to the enemy and most of the time, you only have a 5+ save to resist enemy fire.

What's worse though: in order to be effective, the CCB has to be right in melta range - which is a death sentence. A single melta hit means +3 on the damage chart and is thus highly likely to just blow it up. And suddenly, your HQ stands in the open and will get shot apart immediately afterwards.

Suddenly, you realize you just lost ~200 points.

The thing is that the CCB is very effective vs. highly armored vehicles. But at the same time, so is Gauss. Which comes a lot cheaper than a CCB and is a lot more resilent (e.g. Warrior blob) AND has a higher range.

The problem is the sweep range. 12'' simply does not cut it. Unless a FAQ changes this somehow, the CCB is not worth taking at all.

I disagree.

An Overlord on a Command Barge is a fantastic harassment unit. AV 13 is pretty hard to penetrate and the 5+ Jink just for moving is gravy. Living Metal negates Shaken/Stunned, and your Overlord can spend a wound to negate an Immobilized result (or Weapon Destroyed, which is a waste, imo). It moves as fast as a Destroyer Lord with the additional benefit of unlocking a Royal Court.

Yes, there are downsides to the Command Barge, but I find the pros far outweigh them. It's open-topped (but still AV 13). It only has a 5+ Jink save (which it gets for free as long as it moves - better than most vehicles, AND you can still hide behind cover for a better save). It only gets a 12" sweep (which is still D3+1 extra attacks in the movement phase, that are AP1, S7, and Armourbane).

The key is that you need to support your Barge. You can't simply charge it into your opponent's lines and expect it to do well. Solar Pulse Crypteks are very useful for improving your cover save. Wraiths are a good, durable, fast-moving unit that can move up with it. Scythes are more fast-moving units that your opponent needs to divert fire too, and just as deadly against vehicles. Other AV 13 vehicles provide armor saturation.

All in all, I'd say it's very worth it, as long as you play smart.

I think i should try the CCB just for fun

 Tomten wrote:
I think i should try the CCB just for fun

Do it. It always is the best thing to do and if you like them...field them. They can certainly be a fun unit to use, they simply aren't competitive.

While the CCB is by no means bad, it's not the allstar it as in 5th.

The main thing you loose is the long range sweep attacks. Even with the new Chariot rules, that's still a pretty significant loss. The Chariot getting hit in Rear Armor in CC still, is a bit of a blow as well.

Another thing I've found, is that I don't need royal courts as much anymore, much less the double court staple in 5th, so I tend to take less Overlords. I also tend to take the Special Character Overlords, if I do. Which comes to another Problem, with only Anrakyr having a Warscythe for the Special Characters. (I don't count Obyron, even though you can buy a CCB for Zhan, and have him steal it) A CCB is pretty pointless, if the Overlord doesn't have a Warscythe.

All of these factors end up contributing to the loss of value, of the CCB, for me at least.

I see a lot of people advocate giving Trazyn a Command Barge (so he can get to objectives faster, NOT for the Empathic Obliterator attcaks while mounted on a chariot)... though, if you REALLY wanted him to get to an objective, I don't see why you wouldn't just stick him in a Nighscythe instead (or maybe attach a Despair-tek with Veil).

A CCB is pretty pointless, if the Overlord doesn't have a Warscythe.


You always take the Warscythe.

Is sweep attack D3+1 attacks now? I thought it was your overlords attacks...

A Bagrelord's Sweep Attacks are simply 3 attacks, hitting on 3s at Combat Speed, 4s at Cruising Speed, and picking out models on 6s regardless.

Oops! I must have mixed that up with Vector Strike. Good to know.

But still its good can you hit multiple units?

The dislike of Barges in this edition is unjust, the barge is one of the most durable tanks in the game with an effective 5HP if you want. The issue with it being attacked from the rear armour is a null point when comparing it to how it was, because before you couldn't even assault with the chariot and now you have that option with the d6 attacks it gives. The only real downside is the reduced sweep attack distance, which granted is a disadvantage but not as terrible as people make it out to be, your still sweeping on 12" which is enough to get over units.

The only other issue is that necrons as a whole got a lot better at taking out vehicles, which the barge lord excels at, so hes not required for that task anymore. Plus in some metas the amount of mech has died down so you aren't required to take a lot of AT to survive anymore.

The way I run a Barge lord is with some other fast hitting units so that my opponent can't just target me 1 at a time as I approach. This can be done with veilteks, to deepstrike at your opponent while your smart missile flys at the enemy or wraiths or another barge lord.

The barge lord is a pretty effective smart missile that will hit your opponents line on turn 2, just dont send him alone, since he can't tank the entire enemy army by himself. Also if your so worried about the enemy hitting your back armour in assault, there is no reason that you can't just jump out of the transport and assault, it is an assault transport after all. Plus when you jump out and assault like people used to do with the Barge lord you can now just "ram" your barge into the CC to get an additional d6 str6 attacks in, no where does it say that a chariot must be manned in order to assault an enemy.

So all in all a 80pt transport with a str5 ap3 gun, that is ridiculously fast and durable, plus can gain additional attacks in the assault phase is a decent use of points.

Punisher wrote:
The dislike of Barges in this edition is unjust, the barge is one of the most durable tanks in the game with an effective 5HP if you want. The issue with it being attacked from the rear armour is a null point when comparing it to how it was, because before you couldn't even assault with the chariot and now you have that option with the d6 attacks it gives. The only real downside is the reduced sweep attack distance, which granted is a disadvantage but not as terrible as people make it out to be, your still sweeping on 12" which is enough to get over units.

The only other issue is that necrons as a whole got a lot better at taking out vehicles, which the barge lord excels at, so hes not required for that task anymore. Plus in some metas the amount of mech has died down so you aren't required to take a lot of AT to survive anymore.

The way I run a Barge lord is with some other fast hitting units so that my opponent can't just target me 1 at a time as I approach. This can be done with veilteks, to deepstrike at your opponent while your smart missile flys at the enemy or wraiths or another barge lord.

The barge lord is a pretty effective smart missile that will hit your opponents line on turn 2, just dont send him alone, since he can't tank the entire enemy army by himself. Also if your so worried about the enemy hitting your back armour in assault, there is no reason that you can't just jump out of the transport and assault, it is an assault transport after all. Plus when you jump out and assault like people used to do with the Barge lord you can now just "ram" your barge into the CC to get an additional d6 str6 attacks in, no where does it say that a chariot must be manned in order to assault an enemy.

So all in all a 80pt transport with a str5 ap3 gun, that is ridiculously fast and durable, plus can gain additional attacks in the assault phase is a decent use of points.

What unit(s) will you back up your CCB with?

Something that goes pewpewpew from behind it (like its brethren the Annihilation Barge)

Annihilation barge= Awesomesauce

Punisher wrote:
The dislike of Barges in this edition is unjust, the barge is one of the most durable tanks in the game with an effective 5HP if you want. The issue with it being attacked from the rear armour is a null point when comparing it to how it was, because before you couldn't even assault with the chariot and now you have that option with the d6 attacks it gives. The only real downside is the reduced sweep attack distance, which granted is a disadvantage but not as terrible as people make it out to be, your still sweeping on 12" which is enough to get over units.

The only other issue is that necrons as a whole got a lot better at taking out vehicles, which the barge lord excels at, so hes not required for that task anymore. Plus in some metas the amount of mech has died down so you aren't required to take a lot of AT to survive anymore.

The way I run a Barge lord is with some other fast hitting units so that my opponent can't just target me 1 at a time as I approach. This can be done with veilteks, to deepstrike at your opponent while your smart missile flys at the enemy or wraiths or another barge lord.

The barge lord is a pretty effective smart missile that will hit your opponents line on turn 2, just dont send him alone, since he can't tank the entire enemy army by himself. Also if your so worried about the enemy hitting your back armour in assault, there is no reason that you can't just jump out of the transport and assault, it is an assault transport after all. Plus when you jump out and assault like people used to do with the Barge lord you can now just "ram" your barge into the CC to get an additional d6 str6 attacks in, no where does it say that a chariot must be manned in order to assault an enemy.

So all in all a 80pt transport with a str5 ap3 gun, that is ridiculously fast and durable, plus can gain additional attacks in the assault phase is a decent use of points.

Personally a Faq is needed for the Chariot to clear up all its hastily written rules and wording then we might see a return of the Space scooter.

As it stands its biggest fault, it that units aren't locked in combat so you get SM squads survive a round, move to the rear and melta the CCB. Added to this fact that you can split your melee attacks so the bolter chumps attack the Lord and the powerfist/metla bomb sarge wreaks the CCB since he is hitting on 3's and striking rear amour which is stupid. Plus all units are counted as in B2B with the Chariot so can't even try and avoid the powerfist/metla bomb by assaulting at an angle where he can't get within 3''.

Just lazy design by GW has ruined a really cool Unit. Now I struggle to field a Overlord since he is wasted in Warrior/Immortal units and LychGuard are terribly over priced.

You raise some good points about the CCB, I will give the idea of having the Lord get off his Space Scooter and both units assaulting as that could get around a few of the problems. I feel the CCB worst match up is SM since most units will have a metla/Powerfist/Grenades and with ATSKNF if you win combat SM players auto fail morale, can't be swept, auto rally and target the CCB with metla/Powerfist/Grenades.

Price is another issue, 80 points for a transport is fairly expensive + the 100 For the Olord and you'll want to deck him out with MMS and maybe Phase shifter, if you plan on having the OLord assaulting outside of the CCB then the Weave is a must.

The Total is 210 (255 with the PS), that's the same as 6 Wraiths which will wreak anything from Av14 (if your super lucky) to TEQ.
.

 Tomten wrote:


What unit(s) will you back up your CCB with?

Currently I am running 2 veiltek squads so I just zoom the Barge up one flank and then teleport in 2 units to shoot at my opponent which causes my opponent to have to decide between the barge or the teleporting squad(s). In my experience running up a unit of wraiths with the barge also works very well since these are 2 very killy units that can keep up with one another that demand attention.

 Tomten wrote:
But still its good can you hit multiple units?

No, you may only select one unit from any that you moved over in your Movement Phase to strike against.

 Nakor The BlueRider wrote:

Personally a Faq is needed for the Chariot to clear up all its hastily written rules and wording then we might see a return of the Space scooter.

As it stands its biggest fault, it that units aren't locked in combat so you get SM squads survive a round, move to the rear and melta the CCB. Added to this fact that you can split your melee attacks so the bolter chumps attack the Lord and the powerfist/metla bomb sarge wreaks the CCB since he is hitting on 3's and striking rear amour which is stupid. Plus all units are counted as in B2B with the Chariot so can't even try and avoid the powerfist/metla bomb by assaulting at an angle where he can't get within 3''.

Just lazy design by GW has ruined a really cool Unit. Now I struggle to field a Overlord since he is wasted in Warrior/Immortal units and LychGuard are terribly over priced.

You raise some good points about the CCB, I will give the idea of having the Lord get off his Space Scooter and both units assaulting as that could get around a few of the problems. I feel the CCB worst match up is SM since most units will have a metla/Powerfist/Grenades and with ATSKNF if you win combat SM players auto fail morale, can't be swept, auto rally and target the CCB with metla/Powerfist/Grenades.

Price is another issue, 80 points for a transport is fairly expensive + the 100 For the Olord and you'll want to deck him out with MMS and maybe Phase shifter, if you plan on having the OLord assaulting outside of the CCB then the Weave is a must.

The Total is 210 (255 with the PS), that's the same as 6 Wraiths which will wreak anything from Av14 (if your super lucky) to TEQ.
.

While I do agree that SM have the most tools to ruin the barges day. The barge also comes equipped with a str5 ap3 gun which deals respectable damage on its own. If I am facing an enemy such as space marines with a fist, then I almost always jump out of the barge to assault and then just challenge the fist and kill it with MSS or my warscythe. If my opponent chooses to auto fail, theres a chance the lord catches them and keeps them locked, and if not then my opponent has to choose to shoot either the barge or the lord. The barge has already performed it`s required task of delivering the lord at this point, and the lord is still quite survivable on his own. As for wargear, I almost never give the lord a phaseshifter as its just so expensive and the weave isn't that useful because unless your off the barge its not used. Of course if you know your facing marines then these could be useful seeing as you know you'll exit the barge, but not useful in a TAC army. As for the wraiths comparison, well it just really depends on what your facing for which is a better point investment. The barge shrugs off all small arms fire, which is really good at putting down wraiths while wraiths are better equipped to survive against heavy firepower. The barge performs better against vehicles and the wraiths perform better against regular infantry. Now I really like the wraiths and think they are one of if not the best unit in the codex but I wouldn't always take them over the barge. Plus the barge lord unlocks a royal court and boy do I love my royal courts. And as for the faq/errata update, sure I'd love a update that makes chariots better, but then I like all updates that make necrons better, so maybe I'm a little biased. The Barge isn't dead, it needs support like more units do, but most importantly you just need to change the manner in which you use it. One of the biggest bonuses that the new edition gave is that the barge is quite capable acting on its own now, so it isn't useless if you bail out of it. The gun is nothing to scoff at since its good against meq, and the D6 attacks in the assault phase means that it can put some decent hurt on enemy units while not being much of a loss for you, since it is an empty transport and any shooting at it isn't shooting the rest of your army. Though I will say this, making your warlord a barge lord is quite risky, I usually only take a barge lord if I am taking another HQ choice as well since your warlord would be at a lot of risk that deep in enemy territory.

The command barge isn't fantastic anymore (compared to 5th), but it can still be decent. Not part of the ultimate competitive list of doom, but it can still be used quite effectively.

It really has lost a fair bit, due to the lost range on the sweep attack (as pretty much everyone above has said).

But it has increased it's ability to solo-kill units. Since it's not locked in CC, you can charge + hammer of wrath + CC. Next turn, reverse 2", charge again. Or, if you feel so inclined, reverse, jump the overlord out, charge one unit with the o'lord and another with the barge.

It's not so much that it's truly devastating... it's more that something like that playing in their back lines (especially if you flat out towards them for a 4+ jink in the first turn) can be an enormous distraction. And in my opinion, every anti-tank shot that's not being fired at an annihilation barge is a win (especially when - even if they do pop the command barge - an angry overlord will still be running at them).

Can you assault a different unit if you first hit a another unit with sweep attacks?

Separating the Barge and the lord coudl also be a good way to mitigate overwatch if the squad you are chagrgign has plasma or hotshot lasguns for example.

Charge the Barge in first, it's AV13 soaks up the overwatch shots, then your Lord saunters into combat unmolested.

 Tomten wrote:
Can you assault a different unit if you first hit a another unit with sweep attacks?

Q: Can a character on a Catacomb Command Barge target one unit
with his Sweep Attack and charge a different unit in the subsequent
Assault phase? (p52)
A: Yes.

http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m2570047a_Necrons_v1.1.pdf


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Praxiss wrote:
Separating the Barge and the lord coudl also be a good way to mitigate overwatch if the squad you are chagrgign has plasma or hotshot lasguns for example.

Charge the Barge in first, it's AV13 soaks up the overwatch shots, then your Lord saunters into combat unmolested.

That would work if Overwatch forced you to shoot against the first unit that charged you, but it doesn't. You can overwatch against any unit that declared a charge against you in that assault phase (so long as you're not already locked in combat and you're eligible to overwatch) but you can only Overwatch against one squad out of those eligible. Since a Chariot cannot lock a unit in combat, even if it's in base contact with the enemy unit, they can still fire Overwatch at the Lord when he charges.