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I'm not neccessarily saying that turning into khornes daemon prince was vindicated but did the Emperor ever deserve the loyalty shown by other primarchs from Angron? I personally see no reason why he shouldn't have turned against his father

The Emperor earned the loyalty and respect of some of the primarchs when he found them, others he just took from where they were and said "too bad, so sad." Angron is the best example of this as the Emperor merely teleported him off the planet and left Angron's warriors to die. Kurze is the other one noone can really be surprised turned, from the moment he first saw the Emperor he knew that he would die at the hands of an Imperial Assassin.

To agree with what's already been said, I don't think I'd have warmed up to someone who did that to me - Angron's turn was never going to be a surprise.

Is there any reason why the emperor did this? Its not like he is stupid by any means.

The emperor knew that Angron would die with his army if he did not remove him by force. He would rather have a living yet annoyed son than a dead one.

And Angron was possibly too arrogant to believe such a reason.
"Me, lose? Ha! Your yanking my axe old man!"

Blackhoof wrote:
And Angron was possibly too arrogant to believe such a reason.
"Me, lose? Ha! Your yanking my axe old man!"

This was indeed not the case. He was despondent over not dying with his "brothers and sister" in the mountains.

Angron seemed like a poster boy for Khorne from the beginning. Being raised as a gladiator and having rage-inducing implants makes him little more than a feral dog compared to the other Primarchs. He spent his entire life fighting off his oppressors and when the Emporer forbade him from using these rage implants on his Legion, Angron probably just saw the Big E as another authority figure trying to control him.

A legion infamous for it's bloodthirst and brutality is like a match made in heaven for Khorne. I don't see how it could have gone any other way.

A legion of war hounds, custodes, the emperor himself and the only imperial contribution to the battle was teleporting Spartacus away?

 cvtuttle wrote:

Blackhoof wrote:
And Angron was possibly too arrogant to believe such a reason.
"Me, lose? Ha! Your yanking my axe old man!"

This was indeed not the case. He was despondent over not dying with his "brothers and sister" in the mountains.

is that so? I was unaware of that.

Tiarna Fuilteach wrote:
A legion of war hounds, custodes, the emperor himself and the only imperial contribution to the battle was teleporting Spartacus away?

The much more intelligent approach would have been to have curbstomped the opposing army fighting alongside his son, impressing Angron and appealing to his sense of martial honor.

Angron from the start hated the Emperor, viewing him as another coward who has others do his dirty work for his own ends.

 Void__Dragon wrote:

Tiarna Fuilteach wrote:
A legion of war hounds, custodes, the emperor himself and the only imperial contribution to the battle was teleporting Spartacus away?

The much more intelligent approach would have been to have curbstomped the opposing army fighting alongside his son, impressing Angron and appealing to his sense of martial honor.

Angron from the start hated the Emperor, viewing him as another coward who has others do his dirty work for his own ends.

For all the power the Emporer had, basic child-rearing functions was not something he had in bulk. He did so much that ended up foolishly biting him in the ass and as a result, much of it seemed to be his fault for thinking everything will go "Perfectly" his way.

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:
For all the power the Emporer had, basic child-rearing functions was not something he had in bulk. He did so much that ended up foolishly biting him in the ass and as a result, much of it seemed to be his fault for thinking everything will go "Perfectly" his way.

This is what happens when someone that powerful starts to believe their own hype.

Of course if the Emperor did everything perfectly and his sons all loved and respected him above all else then there would have been no heresy, no collapse of the Imperium and all that other goodness that led to the game environment we have now.

Skriker

 CrashCanuck wrote:
The Emperor earned the loyalty and respect of some of the primarchs when he found them, others he just took from where they were and said "too bad, so sad." Angron is the best example of this as the Emperor merely teleported him off the planet and left Angron's warriors to die. Kurze is the other one noone can really be surprised turned, from the moment he first saw the Emperor he knew that he would die at the hands of an Imperial Assassin.

Let's not forget Lorgar, who was consumed by religion to the point where the other Primarchs advised the Emperor to just leave him there on Colchis.

There was actually no reason why the Emperor didn't put Angron down like a rabid animal from the get-go and either disband the War Hounds or put them back under Legion Master control, lol.


With the World Eaters, it's best to ask as few questions as possible. They are the Orks of Space Marines. They make no sense, but their antics are entertaining.

 Void__Dragon wrote:

Tiarna Fuilteach wrote:
A legion of war hounds, custodes, the emperor himself and the only imperial contribution to the battle was teleporting Spartacus away?

The much more intelligent approach would have been to have curbstomped the opposing army fighting alongside his son, impressing Angron and appealing to his sense of martial honor.

I can see how it might be possible to think this way. However, the planet had a functional, compliant government. Why would the Emperor destroy it? You don't fight the battles you don't have to. That's pretty basic strategy.

Angron's warriors were surgically modified lunatics. They had no place in the Imperium, even if it wasn't their fault they were the way they were. Remember, Angryon was told not to do the same thing to the World Eaters, and he disobeyed anyway.

Again, the question remains of why the Emperor didn't order Angron to be destroyed, and the World Eaters too, at that point. This is a major plot hole in 40K, explained away because the World Eaters and Angryon date back to a time when the 40K fluff was very skeletal and it was okay to be named Angron and have turned to Chaos because you were really angry. Remember, Angryon is perhaps the most two-dimensional character in 40K. Trying to rationalize his actions is a tarpit. He turned to Chaos because he's always been written that way, and his original fluff was a tiny blurb.

We can only hope and assume that The Emperor was waiting until the end of the Crusade, and then the World Eaters would have been the first to go on the chopping block. However, I still think it would have been a better idea to just give Guilliman some more toys and have him pick up the slack for the World Eaters. After all, 17 Legions isn't too much worse than 18, heh.

 Cultiststeve wrote:
Is there any reason why the emperor did this? Its not like he is stupid by any means.

The Emperor's high intelligence quite often appears to be an informed ability.

I have to dissagree with the "intelligent" decision, Argon does NOT look like the kind of person that takes uninvited help as a good thing. He'd probably see it as a massive offense to his honour, and to the honor of his brothers. Better to die standing, that to be at the debt of a foreigner. I suspect the reason the emperor let it go so long is because he was hoping that Argon might win, or retreat, or more likely, he wanted Argon to realize that sometimes, you lose.

It did not go as planned...

 Veteran Sergeant wrote:

Again, the question remains of why the Emperor didn't order Angron to be destroyed, and the World Eaters too, at that point. This is a major plot hole in 40K,

No, the plot hole would have been the Emperor destroying him and the World Eaters.

Bad, bad decisions are entirely within the Emperor's character. Rational, well-thought out ones are not.

 Veteran Sergeant wrote:
There was actually no reason why the Emperor didn't put Angron down like a rabid animal from the get-go and either disband the War Hounds or put them back under Legion Master control, lol.

As DE said, the main reason is probably that he's an idiot, as well as a violent sociopath himself.

But gaining the loyalty and respect of one of his Primarchs, and having to occasionally deal with his rages (Basically, like Horus did as a traitor), is a smarter move than actively conspiring against yourself by making him hate you, lol.

If, instead of being called Angron, he had been called Happyon instead, he would have had a different destiny.