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Started Circle for Hordes. My roommate started Cygnar, and my other friend started Skorne. Each of us shelled out 400$ within a week buying what we thought “Looked Cool”. As a rule, we only play with painted units, trying to figure out what I need to paint next so I can field. Coming from a 40k tournament heavy background, we’ve decided to pick armies that fit our aesthetic tastes in terms of models and play-style. We’ve each had a handful of games so far and have a general grasp of the rules. I want to build a few 25 Point lists with what I own when I get a few games in this weekend. This is what I own and my thoughts:

Casters:
- Baulder (Stonecleaver) – I like him A LOT. I’m enjoying him so far.
- Kaya (Starter Kit one) - She seems awfully weak and does not work well with the constructs. I’ll most likely never use her. The Level 2 version seems much better then her lower level form.

Heavies:
- Megalith – I’ve never really healed much with him, he gets taken down in one turn quite easily.
- Wold Guardian – Much more durable, I’m using this model in most of my games now
- Wold Warden – Seems useless, Baulder has terrible spells (AOE/Forest) – doesn’t seem that useful when you can take Megalith
- Warp Wolf – Super fast assassin made of paper. I like him, but it looks like he needs a caster to back him up.

Light Jacks:
- Wold Watcher? (The smaller Wold Warden) – For 5 points is TERRIBLE. Has a bad rep around the store for being useless. He’s my painting test model as of now.
- 2x Argus – Their flamerthower is great, if it had any accuracy whatsoever. Not a huge fan, the witner ones seem MUCH better. Speed 14 is great. Tied up some Kharn character with them and that worked out well. Great fodder to tie units up with.

Infantry:
- 6x Druids w/Sarge – I found out they hit on RAT 7 with spells. They actually hit things now. Still made of paper and need to be Stoneskin’d most of the time.
- 3x Manakins with Stone – Free units/They can make forests. No reason not to taken them!
- Sentry Stones – The healing is near useless, but the teleportation is OTT powerful if the stones aren’t killed outright
- Blackclad – He’s died before he’s done anything yet
- Lord of the Feast – Not used him. Seems like a super long reach assassin with a "meh" weapon. No idea how his "heart/counters" work.
- Croak Hunter – Invisible assassin poison frog – hilarious play so far. Love the model/rules.

So is this even in the ballpark with what the units actually do in regular games when you know how to play WM/H? The Croak Hunters seem wonderful. I’m having a lot of fun with them. Picking up 2 more so I can have a squad of 3 run around. I have no desire to purchase the shrimp models, the local players seem to think they “Are the only way to play circle with Baulder” – They look ugly. I refuse to use them. I figured out how to use the Stones in the last game I played. Teleporting seems absurdly useful. Most of the games I’ve played have been against my Cygnar friend who uses “Siege” – which apparently is my “Anti-Caster”. I also figured out Druids do not use ranged attacks on a RAT of 3, but use there (7) stat. This was new to me last game. Any ideas on a 25 and a 35 point list to play?

As a note, not getting names on some of the things will help out in the future, especially on Shifting and Sentry Stones.

Kaya is actually not terribly bad as a starting warlock, but she runs best with what she comes with in the battlebox. She runs a very long, kind of guerrilla game, I feel. Lots of yo-yos, and lots of tagging things with Spirit Fang to make them half-useless. The thing of especial note though is you just don't have a lot of her (or epic Kaya either's) important pieces, like Goraxes and Warpwolf Stalkers. Kaya1 likes Geomancers, but Kaya2 has little need for them I feel.

Baldur actually is pretty good with Woldwardens and Megalith for the reason you don't seem to like him. They effectively get +1 FURY with him for charges and power attacks. Geomancy also doesn't take an action. This means that a Woldwarden can toss a double-boosted Earth Spikes and retreat 5", or trample up 8" for free and do it also. 18" threat ranges with boostable POW 13s is actually pretty dangerous for some casters in the game if you can get a good volume of them out there. As another trick, when you charge a model, before you make attacks you can cast spells. This means that the Woldwarden can charge for free, get into melee, cast Stone Skin on itself and proceed to swing at P+S 17. Or you can use it to bounce it around between things you might want to Teleport with Shifting Stones. It doesn't seem like much but Woldwardens are acutally something he's kind of king of.

And take above but with Megalith. I like Megalith and a Woldwarden with Baldur since you can do a bit of orbital bombardment with spells, and a lot of janky cycling things.

Woldwatcher is kind of meh with most warlocks. The main thing I see it with is that with epic Baldur you can cast his ARM buff spell to make it an unmovable ARM 24 point-holder that takes shots for you. Which for is great there, but not really elsewhere.

I wouldn't bother with Stone Skin on Druids, as a note. ARM 13 or 15 is kind of meaningless for most things in the game save for blast damage, which Baldur negates anyhow. Druids are better off gettingg their good stat (DEF) cranked as high as they can. Stone Skin does better on things like your heavy warbeasts. In WM/H, it is better to play to a model or unit's strengths, rather than work too hard on patching weaknesses.

I think a way to also play Baldur instead of the shrimp is with Tharn Bloodtrackers. They actually DO get a buff out of Stone Skin, not in the defensive department, but in that it cranks their Javelins to P+S 13 Weaponmasters against Prey that isn't penalized by the -1 SPD much. With a Geomancer about, you can even get it off of them at some point to get their DEF back up to 14, and ARM 11 against blast is meaningless with Solid Ground.

For what you have now (even Kaya), and suggesting a bit of ideas, what might do you well:
- Stone Keeper UA for the Shifting Stones
- Tharn Bloodtrackers
- Warpwolf Stalker (the one with the sword)
- Gorax (replace one of the Argi with Kaya with one of these and watch damage output for your Warpwolf go up quite a bit).

And on other things, the Blackclad needs to be kept alive to get the full use. Sometimes it is best that if you have a plan for a model, treat it like precious gold until the right time. The Blackclad is something I kind of hold middle-line until I think I got a good shot with his spray or Hunter's Mark. If I can't make him at least get some massive death out there, I mostly hold him back.

At 25-35, I wouldn't suggest too much more. Try figuring out what you have more and synergies that work. Use Bloodtrackers or Druids until you are comfortable. The things above are the main things I think you may want with the warlocks you have, and from here you actually might do better with a Krueger or epic Baldur than epic Kaya, as you mostly seem to have Constructs.

And stuff.

not a very experienced player (dropped before mkII, re-starting all over again) but I'm currently playing Kaya only, and learning to like her in spite of the nerf.
(in past days she had that magic that granted free power attack that comboed with Warpwolf's chain attack (gone too)... )

 Auxellion wrote:

- Kaya (Starter Kit one) - She seems awfully weak and does not work well with the constructs.

she doesn't.

- Warp Wolf – Super fast assassin made of paper. I like him, but it looks like he needs a caster to back him up.

use it with Kaya and spirit door it back after attack (also a free +2 on melee attacks is very nice).

on a side note, your comment on the Croak Hunter awakened my interest ^^ I could give it a try =)

As a note, not getting names on some of the things will help out in the future, especially on Shifting and Sentry Stones.

Still learning!

Kaya is actually not terribly bad as a starting warlock, but she runs best with what she comes with in the battlebox. She runs a very long, kind of guerrilla game, I feel. Lots of yo-yos, and lots of tagging things with Spirit Fang to make them half-useless. The thing of especial note though is you just don't have a lot of her (or epic Kaya either's) important pieces, like Goraxes and Warpwolf Stalkers. Kaya1 likes Geomancers, but Kaya2 has little need for them I feel.

I'll most likely shelve her until I can get more play with Baldur

Baldur actually is pretty good with Woldwardens and Megalith for the reason you don't seem to like him. They effectively get +1 FURY with him for charges and power attacks. Geomancy also doesn't take an action. This means that a Woldwarden can toss a double-boosted Earth Spikes and retreat 5", or trample up 8" for free and do it also. 18" threat ranges with boostable POW 13s is actually pretty dangerous for some casters in the game if you can get a good volume of them out there.

I've not played infantry heavy armies, so I guess Earth Spikes will have more use later on. Trample? I'll have to check what that is. I've not used "Headbut/Headlocks" yet - just regular attacks so far.

As another trick, when you charge a model, before you make attacks you can cast spells. This means that the Woldwarden can charge for free, get into melee, cast Stone Skin on itself and proceed to swing at P+S 17. Or you can use it to bounce it around between things you might want to Teleport with Shifting Stones. It doesn't seem like much but Woldwardens are acutally something he's kind of king of.

I never thought about Stone Skin after getting into combat, I thought you had to swing as soon as you charged! I will try this next time!

And take above but with Megalith. I like Megalith and a Woldwarden with Baldur since you can do a bit of orbital bombardment with spells, and a lot of janky cycling things.

Sounds good! What about the Wold Guardian?

Woldwatcher is kind of meh with most warlocks. The main thing I see it with is that with epic Baldur you can cast his ARM buff spell to make it an unmovable ARM 24 point-holder that takes shots for you. Which for is great there, but not really elsewhere.

Point Holder? You mean in objective games? - Sounds like I won't use him that much, but I'll give him a try!

I wouldn't bother with Stone Skin on Druids, as a note. ARM 13 or 15 is kind of meaningless for most things in the game save for blast damage, which Baldur negates anyhow. Druids are better off gettingg their good stat (DEF) cranked as high as they can. Stone Skin does better on things like your heavy warbeasts. In WM/H, it is better to play to a model or unit's strengths, rather than work too hard on patching weaknesses.

Thanks. I had them upkeeped most of the games I've played


I think a way to also play Baldur instead of the shrimp is with Tharn Bloodtrackers. They actually DO get a buff out of Stone Skin, not in the defensive department, but in that it cranks their Javelins to P+S 13 Weaponmasters against Prey that isn't penalized by the -1 SPD much. With a Geomancer about, you can even get it off of them at some point to get their DEF back up to 14, and ARM 11 against blast is meaningless with Solid Ground.

I was iffy about the Bloodtrackers, I'll pick them up this week! Looking at them now, they seem a lot more useful then I originally thought! Waiting for the Skinwalkers Unit Sarge when it's released (Picked up 5 of them last time I was at the FLGS)

For what you have now (even Kaya), and suggesting a bit of ideas, what might do you well:
- Stone Keeper UA for the Shifting Stones
- Tharn Bloodtrackers
- Warpwolf Stalker (the one with the sword)
- Gorax (replace one of the Argi with Kaya with one of these and watch damage output for your Warpwolf go up quite a bit).

I was told by a few of the players the Stone Keeper was "Okay" - not super effective for what he does. Can I buy him as a solo model? I'll get the Bloodtrackers this week!

And on other things, the Blackclad needs to be kept alive to get the full use. Sometimes it is best that if you have a plan for a model, treat it like precious gold until the right time. The Blackclad is something I kind of hold middle-line until I think I got a good shot with his spray or Hunter's Mark. If I can't make him at least get some massive death out there, I mostly hold him back.

I'll use him in a more passive way, trying to to jump out and spray as soon as I could.


At 25-35, I wouldn't suggest too much more. Try figuring out what you have more and synergies that work. Use Bloodtrackers or Druids until you are comfortable. The things above are the main things I think you may want with the warlocks you have, and from here you actually might do better with a Krueger or epic Baldur than epic Kaya, as you mostly seem to have Constructs.

Thanks!

 Auxellion wrote:

…
I'll most likely shelve her until I can get more play with Baldur

Not a bad idea. I think it's a good idea to get really used to a caster or two until you know them in and out and a lot of good tricks with them. So not a bad strategy I think.

 Auxellion wrote:
I've not played infantry heavy armies, so I guess Earth Spikes will have more use later on. Trample? I'll have to check what that is. I've not used "Headbut/Headlocks" yet - just regular attacks so far.

Earth Spkes actually helps if you want to "kite" a bit, or if you can get a better angle in for the caster kill. Megalith also has some nice tricks in that he can lob an Earth Spikes, cast his animus be a bit of a pain to get to. Also if you get the critical hits, you also waste enemy model's time getting up to get to you.

 Auxellion wrote:
I never thought about Stone Skin after getting into combat, I thought you had to swing as soon as you charged! I will try this next time!

It's a pretty solid trick. It also helps a bit in the "cycling" thing I mentioned earlier. I almost never upkeep any of Baldur's spells save Solid Ground, personally. They tend to bounce everywhere.

 Auxellion wrote:
Sounds good! What about the Wold Guardian?

It's okay with Baldur, but I mostly only take it with him if I am running a Themed Force. I think it actually has a good place with other warlocks more than with him, strange as it seems.

 Auxellion wrote:
Point Holder? You mean in objective games? - Sounds like I won't use him that much, but I'll give him a try!

Mostly for scenario, yeah. I would suggest when it comes out giving SR2013 scenarios a try. They liven things up a bit and cause some neat shake-ups beyond the normal caster kill stuff I think.

 Auxellion wrote:
Thanks. I had them upkeeped most of the games I've played

Yeah. I think if all else fails, just leaving it on a Woldwarden helps on the survability issue you noted, and putting it on Megalith makes him a serious issue for some things to chew through. Not everything, mind. Beware of Bronzeback Titans.

 Auxellion wrote:
I was iffy about the Bloodtrackers, I'll pick them up this week! Looking at them now, they seem a lot more useful then I originally thought! Waiting for the Skinwalkers Unit Sarge when it's released (Picked up 5 of them last time I was at the FLGS)

Bloodtrackers are great with him, especially Nuala, but she's not mandatory with them. Skinwalker UA is going to be pretty gravy with them. I'm excited for it myself.

 Auxellion wrote:
I was told by a few of the players the Stone Keeper was "Okay" - not super effective for what he does. Can I buy him as a solo model? I'll get the Bloodtrackers this week!

The Stone Keeper is one of the best 1pt things you can put into an army, acutally. To test things, look at what eh Shifting Stones have with their base CMD 4. Then put a forth small model down and have the Stones 8" away form it. It increases the size of the triangle for teleporting by an enormous amount. And on top of that, he gives them Stealth, making them many times more difficult to snipe something out. Very worth looking into.

 Auxellion wrote:
I'll use him in a more passive way, trying to to jump out and spray as soon as I could.

Look at him as an enabler. He might not kill his own points, but he might let your other models take out much more than their worth just for the extra threat he can give. If he also happens to mow-down a good chunk of things with the spray, it's a win-win.

 Auxellion wrote:
Thanks!

Glad to be of help.

And stuff.