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Now I took a break from Warhammer for about 8 years or so and I had some questions relating to them. Its possibly my own mistaken memory but I seem to remember that back then, Dreadnaughts were irreplacable pre heresy relics that had to be retreived and repaired if destroyed because of the damage done to Mars. I'm sure I remember something along the lines of the Iron Hands lost most of their dreadnaughts on Istavan V so the few they had left were especially reverred.
But now we have the Contemptor class dreads so I'm wondering if that means the Imperium can build new ones now, or if they always had that abilitie and I'm mistaken or something else entirely.

Contemptor Dreadnoughts are preheresy relics.

Regular Dreadnought hulls can be replaced, although it is difficult to do so. So they end up retrieving them because its more cost effective, plus to honor the former occupant.

The same applies to TDA. It is replacable, but it is difficult to do that. So its better to keep repairing the existing suits.

Yea, basically the "art" of making Dreadnoughts is almost completely lost so all they can do is fix em up as best as they can. Apparently the technique to build them was lost during the HH I believe.

Not too different from what Grey Templar Said ^

Sort of. It is important to be clear that they can make new suits of TDA and new Dreadnoughts. There are quite a few things that people think they can't replace anymore that they actually can. Titans, baneblades, etc, all are replacable. In the same way the White House or the Statue of Liberty are replacable.

Aye, there's a number of FW's that can produce all these "relic" technologies, but their production is nowhere near demand, so it's much more efficient to rebuild, repair and modify existent equipment than just go "Screw it, order a new one."

Remember, the number of Space Marine chapters is consistently on the rise; it's slow, but they do grow in numbers, and they get their TDA, Dreadnoughts, and so on from somewhere.

And if I remember correctly, it's mainly the sarcophagus of the Dreadnought that is so valuable. The body itself can be torn to pieces, but so long as the sarcophagus is in tact, it can easily be removed and placed in a new body.

Most Dreadnought suits are described as more or less being irreplaceable these days. At some point the Imperium lost the ability to manufacture them.

 Harriticus wrote:
Most Dreadnought suits are described as more or less being irreplaceable these days. At some point the Imperium lost the ability to manufacture them.

Lost the ability to manufcature them in meaningful numbers at any rate. It is staed in the fluff that new ones can be built by a very small (and dwindling) number of specialists - not planets, individuals - within the Adeptus Mechanicus.

the imperium has forgotten a lot of the old technology though

IIRC another point about the new dreads & terminator armour is that they are believed to be a lower quality that pre heresy wargear, again another testimony that the skill / knowledge is being lost to the Imperium.

 FordPrefect wrote:
IIRC another point about the new dreads & terminator armour is that they are believed to be a lower quality that pre heresy wargear, again another testimony that the skill / knowledge is being lost to the Imperium.

Aye, most of the knowledge was lost during the Horus Heresy and Schism of Mars, I guess all the knowledgable tech-preists ran off into the warp to figure out how to make Forgefiends.

Exalbaru wrote:
the imperium has forgotten a lot of the old technology though

Yes, although in most cases its still made in some places, but the insane redtape of the imperium keeps things from getting distributed.

Forge Worlds often compete for the right to use different STCs, and if they find one will hoard it to themselves. meaning that STC doesn't get used to its full potential. And if that forge world gets captured the STC is lost.

Ivan Issaccs wrote:

 FordPrefect wrote:
IIRC another point about the new dreads & terminator armour is that they are believed to be a lower quality that pre heresy wargear, again another testimony that the skill / knowledge is being lost to the Imperium.

Aye, most of the knowledge was lost during the Horus Heresy and Schism of Mars, I guess all the knowledgable tech-preists ran off into the warp to figure out how to make Forgefiends.

There's a certain degree of truth to that. The members of the AdMec than went Heretek were in general, the ones less likely to be bothered by dogma. The loyalist adepts with any real skill/knowledge died. What remained were the ultraloyalist bumblejacks that were so scarred by the schism that innovation was unlikely for thousands of years.

TDA and Dreadnaught armor CAN be made still, however as others have pointed out, it's increasingly rarer as time passes. There will inevitably be a time when the AdMec completely lacks the knowledge to build new things and at that point, you can pretty much rest assured that the imperium will soon die.

 Nerobellum wrote:


There's a certain degree of truth to that. The members of the AdMec than went Heretek were in general, the ones less likely to be bothered by dogma. The loyalist adepts with any real skill/knowledge died. What remained were the ultraloyalist bumblejacks that were so scarred by the schism that innovation was unlikely for thousands of years.

TDA and Dreadnaught armor CAN be made still, however as others have pointed out, it's increasingly rarer as time passes. There will inevitably be a time when the AdMec completely lacks the knowledge to build new things and at that point, you can pretty much rest assured that the imperium will soon die.

I don't think any technology has actually been "lost" to the IoM, it has instead ceased production and been relegated to some dusty archive on Mars.

Remember, as far as AdMech policy goes, any and all innovations or rediscoveries have be given to Mars, whether or not they remain in production anywhere else, or even on Mars is another matter entirely, and given Mar's position as the source of the shiniest toys in the galaxy, their production is focused on only the best and shiniest toys, and things deemed of lower strategic impact or relegated to limited or zero production. All it would take is the AdMech re-releasing the designs to other forgeworlds to get construction going again.

Consider, as an example, the Vanquisher cannon; Tigrus, the original prime producer was destroyed, thus Stygies VII and Gryphonne IV were given just enough of the design by Mars to produce their own variants, as the AdMech made the conclusion that the complete loss of production would be too dangerous to the Guard's effectiveness, and thus their own protection.

If there was real risk the Dreadnought and Tactical Dreadnought Armour would actually cease to be produced on any forge worlds, or enough chapter forges, I have little doubt the AdMech would make an effort to increase production of, at least, TDA, though I don't think actual Dreadnoughts are important enough to warrant just giving away tech. They're rather recalcitrant to just hand even other forge worlds designs, schematics and instructions.

That may be just my own interpretation of the fluff, but it always seems that the AdMech makes sure that important tech is never truly lost if it's important to their own survival. They're, however, overwhelmingly focused on the status quo and maintenance of their own power, rather than the developement and prosperity of the Imperium. The whole IoM is merely one big sheet of ablative armour between them, the galaxy, and their "quest for knowledge."

I do recall somewhere in the fluff that the Fabricator-General of Mars has access to every blueprint and piece of STC data that exists. Along those same lines, that piece of fluff stated that the Adeptus Mechanicus equip their own skitarii forces better than they do the rest of the Imperium, perhaps save for the Space Marines, but that they were hoarding most of the knowledge for themselves for the most part.

Think back to the Treaty of Olympus that the Emperor made with Mars pre-Great Crusade, the Mechanicum are basically a sovereign state within the IoM. It's within their best interests to hoard this information lest the IoM find no more use for the Mechanicum. Their priority isn't the well-being of the Imperium, it's the rediscovery of archaeotech and furthering the Quest of Knowledge.