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I have been avidly working on a Legion army using the list in the Horus Heresy: Betrayal book and I have come across something that surely isn't right. Bear with me it takes a bit to explain.

We all know what ATSKNF does I presume. Now compare that to the much simpler Legions Astartes rule (p186) "Units with this special rule may always regroup regardless of casualties." This is followed by whatever flavor of extra rules your chosen legion has. First of all this is a marked departure from ATSKNF as it has been for several editions now. I wonder if the lack of reference to regrouping when "overtaken following a fallback from Assault" is deliberate or a mistake. It certainly changes the flavor and style the army plays dramatically.

Perhaps more odd than what th Legions Astartes rule says is what it doesn't say. The W40KVI rulebook rules for Regrouping (p 31) say "a unit that is falling back must attempt to Regroup by taking a Regroup test in their Movement phase just before they move." It then goes on to say the the role you need to successfully Regroup depends on the % of models still alive in the unit. So does the Legions Astartes rule mean:

A: You must always attempt to regroup, and since you are required to always attempt to Regroup, per the rules, the rule does nothing.

B: You must attempt to regroup but can roll with no regard to the number of casualties taken, meaning you will test at normal LD.

C: This rule is incomplete, or otherwise jacked up and should have been changed to some sort of ATSKNF like rule.

I am curious if anyone else has noticed this and what people think of it.

Option B.
If less than 25% of the unit remains, you'd normally only pass the test on a double 1.
The rule lets you use normal Ld value instead.

That's how I read it too, seems very lackluster for the armies that forged the Imperium though.

It's a different system, not to be mixed with 40k armies.
And the marines of the 30k legions were much more "mass produced" than the 40k chapters.

Hopefully they make that change to the new SM codexes as well so that fear and Ld tests become useful

Isn't ATSKNF in the new rulebook? If so I doubt we will see any major change to this rule for 40k. Maybe the new Dark Angels will shed some light.

 grendel083 wrote:

And the marines of the 30k legions were much more "mass produced" than the 40k chapters.

This. New recruits were churned out at a vastly increased rate compared to 49K chapters. I also remember reading some of the fluff several years that suggested that, back in the 30K days, you could even turn a full grown man into a Space Marine (rather than having to start with a child). It mentioned this when talking about how, when a Primarch was found, sometimes his closest friends would also be turned into Space Marines to effectively join him in the Crusade.

They couldn't become true space marines, however they could be augmented enough to be close. One of the dark angel novels in the horus heresy series mentions it.

All that rule means is that they never take the Ld penelty for being under 25%

They can still be caught in a sweeping advance, unlike marines with ATSKNF.


They can't give them that, because otherwise Chaos Space Marines would have to have it too.

The Heresy changed how Marines operate. For CSM, they gained the blessings of the dark gods. For Loyalists, they gained a fierce tenacity meaning they will fight to the bitter end.

They introduced more psycho-indoctrination for the marines. They are far less the free thinking warrior scholars of the legions and more the zealous warrior-monks in 40K.

 Lord Yayula wrote:
Hopefully they make that change to the new SM codexes as well so that fear and Ld tests become useful

Even with atsknf, LD checks are still important for space marines. You can still cause them to fall back off of the board or off of objectives. I don't understand this silly idea that moral and LD checks are a non entity in the game. They are a bigger issue for some armies than others but that has been the same for every aspect of the game for the different armies.

 Happyjew wrote:
They couldn't become true space marines, however they could be augmented enough to be close. One of the dark angel novels in the horus heresy series mentions it.

Adults could and were turned into full Space Marines, it was just more likely to be lethal.

Russ' original Wolfguard were all adults and voluntarily went under the process; some survived.

I asked a similar question of the folks at Adepticon since they are having a Horus Heresy tourny event. This is what they told me...

[Forge World has told us there is a FAQ on the way for the book and that the rule plays as;

"Units may always regroup....use normal leadership".

Hopefully that document will be released soon.]