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Hi,

I have come up with this list based on Huron Blackheart, would really appreciate comments and advice.

HQ
Huron Blackheart - 160 pts (rides with Nurgle mark CSM in Rhino).
Slaanash Chaos Lord - 80 pts (in Aegis line manning quad gun with cultists).

Troops
8 CSM, Nurgle mark, all cc, Flamer, in Rhino with combi bolter - 183 pts
5 Noise Marines, ccw, Doom siren, in Rhino with combi bolter - 155 pts
5 Noise Marines, ccw, Doom siren, in Rhino with combi bolter - 155 pts
8 Noise Marines, ccw, 5 sonic blastors (to be infiltrated into mid table cover). - 169 pts
10 Cultists, all cc (Behind Aegis defense line with the lord). - 50 pts

Fortifications - Aegis Defense line with quad gun - 100 pts

Fast Attack
3 Bikes, veterans, 2 flamers, melta bomb - 88 pts
3 Bikes, veterans, 2 flamers, melta bomb - 88 pts

(And this is the shooty part)

Elites
3 X Hellbrutes with reaper autocannons - 315 pts

Heavy Support
1 Forge Fiend (Hades autocannon) - 175 pts
2X Tri-lascannon Predators - 280 pts

Total - 1998 pts

The idea is to use Huron's ability to infiltrate the Noise Marine squad with sonic blastors into mid table cover, plus up to both bike squads. If I go first, then the bikes will charge forward, flame the heck out of entrenched troops in cover. If they manage to survive the return shooting, then they charge a vehicle and keep it locked in combat while trying to blow it up with their melta bomb. They are cheap and expendable, and I am prepared to lose both because if they are shooting at the bikes, then they aren't shooting at other stuff. The infiltrated Sonic blastor noise marines will be in range to also shoot and kill infantry behind cover. This unit is tough enough that it would take some doing to dislodge it from its mid table cover. If there is an objective in that mid table cover, so much the better.

The 3 rhinos with Huron and the other 2 noise marine squads are the objective takers. The nurgle mark squad is rock hard, and with Huron in it, should be able to storm and take most objectives, even those in cover. The other 2 noise marine squads will provide support to Huron, and with their Doom Sirens, can cause major damage to MEQ troops and troops in cover.

The entire Elite and heavy support is dedicated to shooting. Hence the 3 Hellbrutes with reapers, 2 las preds, and the forgefiend. This plus the quad gun aegis line means that I have a very entrenched well defended portion putting out a lot of heavy strength shots (everything from strength 7 to strength 9 shots). I will place a home objective within the Aegis line, since with the chaos lord giving fearless, that 10 cultists behind cover is not so easy to take down. If some dangerous close combat troops come close, then its time for the 3 Hellbrutes to come out of their cover from which they have been taking pot shots with their reapers, to counter charge and stop such objective takers. Between 3 armor 12 deadnaughts with 3 powerfists, I am hoping it will help stop anything but the most determined of assaults.

Given I have Rhinos, and two 3 man bike squads, I am prepared to give up first blood (though if I go first, given my heavy shooting and infiltrated units, I may yet claim first blood). But I will aim to balance it out by taking more objectives and with line breaker. I will try to use my heavy shooty portions to take out all transports, and then all the doom sirens, flamers will take out the troops. If I go second, bikes will hide behind cover initially, then they come out and turbo boost across the board.

There is quite a certain amount of armor saturation (plus the bikes to distract an opponent) with 9 vehicles/walkers on the table. And the quad gun is to handle fliers. (If need be, I can aim the reapers, predators and the forge fiend at any must-kill flyer as well).

So, that's the gist of how this army list works. Comments? Advice? What will I have trouble against? Any changes I should make? Is my strategy sound?

Thanks in advance!

Looks like a nice list i would change the hellbrutes to something else maybe Obliterators and you might want to give Spawn a try they are pretty good.

Ok. I don't have a CSM book in front of my and I don't really playchaos. That said, the list mostly looks really good.

My main issue is the emphasis on noise marines. Why not just take regular marines? They cost MUCH less and do essentially the same thing. An icon of vengeance can still make them fearless. You really don't need the +1 initiative if you are focused on shooting. And honestly, sonic blasters seem like.glorified bolters. From a quick glance, you are spending over 20 points per model by giving them sonic blasters. This would be better spent on getting more regular marines. You can still make then fearless, you can still give them mark of nurgle, and you can even give them some heavy bolters. The added bonus is that you have more models and tougher units.

I'd completely remove all noise marines, but if you like the current flavor of your army, keep the infiltrating squad with sonic blasters. The others should definitely be regular marines.
Those 5 man squads aren't going to do anything a 5 man marine squad couldnt.

The great thing about regular marines is the are cheap and versatile. If you wanted, you could get a 20 man squad of fearless with hb and mark of nurgle. That would be a less mobile, but tough unit.

Doom sirens are pretty sweet though, just not worth it in my opinion.

Go regular marines and squeeze in more of them. Especially .ce rhinos tend to explode.

Nothing wrong with noise marines but loose those hellbrutes.
Also there is no point babysitting 10 cultists with the lord, if anything comes near them they are dead anyways.

With those spare points I would throw in a few helldrakes and add numbers to your biker squads.

Thanks for all the comments!

I might consider changing the Hellbrutes, but honestly, they are there for the armor satuation, and also to help increase the shootiness of the army. 3 Hellbrutes with reapers add another 6 twinlinked str 7 shots. Its good against transports, and in a pinch, I can even use it against air if I want to. I can't replace it with Oblits because those are heavy support (Hellbrutes are Elite). If I replace it with Helldrakes, then turn 1 is going to see my 3 Rhinos and Forgefiend stick out like a sore thumb (less worried about the las predators because they are armor 13).

There isn't any other thing I can replace in the elite slot that will be as cheap and as shooty as a Hellbrute and yet still help to add to the armor satuation. Maybe if I changed the entire list into a non-armor list, this may work. But that means I don't get to play with my newly painted forgefiend which I really love (it looks so fierce!). And I don't have any Helldrakes at this point in time either.

Losing the Hellbrutes also means no counter assault capability, which means any assult unit that makes it into my defense line is going to have a field day since cultists can't do much, even with a lord in support.

I am also open to the idea of using normal CSM over noise marines. But they are actually cheaper if you are smart with your points. The two 5 man doom siren squads only cost 155 points. Take any normal CSM squad, start throwing icons of vengences, put it in a Rhino, and you will easily breach 200 points. In fact, a 10 man basic squad, no marks, icon of vengence, and 2 flamers in a basic Rhino with bolter like I have will cost 225 points compared to the 155 points a 5 man doom siren squad cost. Its twice more bodies, but its more expensive, and I don't have the points for it. Go with less than 10 man, and I might as well stick to the doom siren noise marine squad because a Doom Siren is that much better (Its a Str 5 AP3 flamer template).

And not using noise marines means I have to use a normal squad to infiltrate into mid table cover. Its actually going to be just as expensive, if not more expensiveto fully kit out a marked squad compared to the 169 points I spent to enable 5 sonic blastors to shoot 15 salvo ignore cover shots from mid table. That infiltrated squad will definitely come under fire at some point because its scoring and its the nearest thing besides my bikes. Noise marines are fearless.

I really appreciate the comments though! Thanks!

I also have a question about armor saturation. I figured CSM has no choice but to use Rhinos as transports (Land Raider as a transport is horrendously expensive and can only take 10), so having just 3 Rhinos for any anti armor guns will just make them easily popped by turn 1, at most turn 2. I figured if I am going to go for armor saturation, then might as well go all the way. Which is why I have 2 Las Preds, a forge fiend and 3 Hellbrutes along with my Rhinos. Everything is a juicy armored target from turn 1, but nobody is going to be able to clean out all of them immediately. The thing is, while CSM can be shooty, it can't out shoot the shootiest armies out there. So, against certain matchups, its going to have to be prepared to use assult to win. (Not to mention so many objective scenarios means you must move troops around, if only to capture objectives). And Rhinos are the cheapest form of transport we have. Is armor saturation important here? Just wondering.

The lord is there to unlock noise marines as troops.

Why not just have the Cultist squad leader firing the Quad gun?That'll mean you can get some proper use out of you Chaos Lord?

I would love to leave the cultists on their own. But they could potentially run away if you so much as look at them. And the Aegis line plus quad gun they are manning cost 100 points. All told, the Aegis line plus quad gun plus the cultist comes up to 150 points. So, if I place the lord in there, and since the lord is fearless (and he makes the cultists fearless). Then that's 150 points plus the lord who is not going to be running away unless you kill the whole squad plus the lord.

This ensures the quad gun will be used the whole game. The lord also has BS 5, compared to cultists with BS3, so having the lord man the quad gun makes it much more accurate!

There isn't anywhere else the Lord could go anyway. Huron already goes to the plague marked marine squad. The sonic blastor sqad is supposed to stay mid table and shoot their salvo shots, and they are fearless to begin with. Adding the lord to either one of the Doom Siren sqads will not really do much because the Lord is a basic Slanaash lord with no upgrades at all.

I like this list, and agree with the OP that its either all armor or no armor. I run a no armor version essentially, using huron and a slaanesh lord on steed to provide mobility.

I am interested how the 5 man cc noise marine squads will fare, but any way to get doom sirens on the board is good. I personally would bump your infiltrating squad up to 10 men, and get a blastmaster, but its up to you.

The forgefiend will still have a huge target on it, but thats ok.

Paris.in.Flames wrote:
Ok. I don't have a CSM book in front of my and I don't really playchaos. That said, the list mostly looks really good.

My main issue is the emphasis on noise marines. Why not just take regular marines? They cost MUCH less and do essentially the same thing. An icon of vengeance can still make them fearless. You really don't need the +1 initiative if you are focused on shooting. And honestly, sonic blasters seem like.glorified bolters. From a quick glance, you are spending over 20 points per model by giving them sonic blasters. This would be better spent on getting more regular marines. You can still make then fearless, you can still give them mark of nurgle, and you can even give them some heavy bolters. The added bonus is that you have more models and tougher units.

I'd completely remove all noise marines, but if you like the current flavor of your army, keep the infiltrating squad with sonic blasters. The others should definitely be regular marines.
Those 5 man squads aren't going to do anything a 5 man marine squad couldnt.

The great thing about regular marines is the are cheap and versatile. If you wanted, you could get a 20 man squad of fearless with hb and mark of nurgle. That would be a less mobile, but tough unit.

Doom sirens are pretty sweet though, just not worth it in my opinion.

Go regular marines and squeeze in more of them. Especially .ce rhinos tend to explode.

Don't remove the Noise marines.

If you're looking for a tough unit, go for MoN marines or Plague marines, but if you're looking for a small unit that produces a lot of wounds, keep the Noise marines. I suspect that if the meta keeps going like it does now, we're going to see them in a lot more. I don't think people entirely get them yet, but they're a great MEQ unit. Doom Sirens are goddamn awesome.

quick note, you need to mark the cultist with MoS to have the lord join them, as is he cannot join them(the animosty thing IIRC its above the explantion of what the marks do in the CSM RB)

other then that its a neat list that looks like it would be fun. i ran a mech hvy list with some hell brutes and some feinds but got paired up agenst necron's and they ate the brutes in 2 turns all 3 of them and the feind. so be aware of that. heldrakes and havocs make room for emm there awsome.

and agin huron has no mark he cant ride with the plauge marines. i might be wrong here i dont have my book on had but i am 99% about that. so you may wanna drop one of the sepicalist cult marines for CSM squad for huron to go with.

still a good looking list

@slipknotzim,

I believe you have it a little mixed up. An hq with a mark cannot join a unit with a different mark, but they can join a unit with no mark. Thus, the cultists are fine. Also, since Huron has no mark, he can join any unit. Thats the way I read it at least.

 dhockey11 wrote:
@slipknotzim,

I believe you have it a little mixed up. An hq with a mark cannot join a unit with a different mark, but they can join a unit with no mark. Thus, the cultists are fine. Also, since Huron has no mark, he can join any unit. Thats the way I read it at least.

Yep, that's correct.

wow you both where right awsome, i have been needlessly restricing myself lol.
so thank you Stoffer and dhockey11

also i am sure you will hear this alot but having just 10 cultist tends to end badly, they run easly and they just cant take any real damage not without greater numbers.

hope you can get back to us baout how the list did

I changed the list slightly. Changed out the cultists, managed to get 25 more points to replace it with a 5 man basic CSM squad, still has the Slanaash CSM lord there.

Had a game with a friend last night. I drew the one scenario which this army list would not fare so well - purge the alien. KPs... The list has a ton of possible KP points, its much more suited for objectives game as opposed to KP. My friend was playing a blood angels allied C:SM list. Very fierce one that has 4 combat squad steiguard chock full of combi meltas and combi plamas coming down in 2 drop pods on turn 1!

I was prepared to lose, but it turned out to be a much closer game than I thought, it was only decided in the last turn (and I was actually leading on turn 4), and in the end I actually didn't lose too badly. Only lost by 2 kps (considering my list had so many potential KPs to give up). I actually still had some armor left at the end of the game!

As I knew the drop pods of death was coming down, I turtled up, but I got 2 for infiltrate, so I infiltrated both the bike squads up so that they can get the first turn flame.

I won't do a blow by blow battle report here, its not the place for it.

Huron didn't managed to do anything other than use his infiltrate ability. Its not his fault. My Rhinos charged up 18 inches and he was within range such that next turn, he would be out of the Rhino and within heavy flamer range of his defense. He choose to focus a lot of his stein guards attention on Huron's squad though. 4 meltas into a Rhino, followed by 5 plasma gun rapid fire, and shooting from the rest of his army... Well. All my armor survived his turn 1, but Huron and his whole squad died.

The bikes did geat. Turn 1 charge in and flame. One died later, but the second one survived all the way to the end, continued to flame and assualt and killed a scout troop at the end.

No fliers, but the quad gun was used all the way to the end, and the whole squad plus the chaos lord survived. All the rhinos died (expected). But the two doom siren squads did themselves proud. Considering they were relatively cheap, they withstood quite a lot of fire, plus they did far in excess of their points worth of damage. My friend focused so much on Huron's squad that he left both the Doom Siren squads alive. The doom sirens killed off tons of stein guard, and also a combat squad veteran vanguard squad. The power of the doom siren against MEQ is quite scary. Consider this, my 2 bike squads had 2 flamers each. First turn, 4 flames into his troops because they had infiltrate. Only 2 died. 2 casualties inflicted from 4 flamers. My one Doom siren took out 4 steinguard with one well placed flame blast!

The hellbrutes actually kinda worked too. They provided ranged heavy fire. It wasn't their fault that he holed up in a fortification, got a warlord trait that gave stealth, and he had a techmarine that boltered defense so his troops in cover had a 2+ cover save (they literally had termi armor) ... Later on, when his vanguard veteran with 2 melta bombs charged in on one of the hellbrutes. The hellbrute actually stood up to that squad and when I counter charged with another hellbrute, their combined powerfists was enough to wipe the entire vanguard squad, though one did die to the melta bomb attacks. The third hellbrute, same thing, support fired, and later charged and killed up an empty drop pod.

The predators were kinda iffy. He had a conversion beamer (master of the forge) and he placed the guy super far away such that he was lobbing a str 10 blast every turn... I think both preds eventually died to that, if I remember correctly. But they did manage to kill off a squad of marines manning the quad gun. And well, they are part of the armor satuation concept. If not them, he would have targeted other squads with that str 10 blast anyway.

Forge fiend survived all the way to the end! Because of BS 3. Some turns it would miss alot, other turns it would hit 50% or more. Took out troops, a drop pod, and stuff. Quite happy with it.

So, overall, I think the scenario didn't really favour my army, but it was a one out of six possiblity, which I won't cry about since I won't always get purge the alien. Other than that, the army works fine. Its very killy. Has enough armor satuation and threatening targets such that definitley, something will survive to deal back a heck ton of damage. I wiped out his 20 steinguard in 4 seperate combat squads within the space of 1 turn. So, I think this army definitely can hold its own as an all comers army. Not quite sure what I would change. But I will definitely keep the doom siren 5 man squads.Those are absolutely devastating against MEQ. One blast from a doom siren can kill off 4 to 5 marines just like that, with no save too!

The 5 man Noise marine squads with doom siren stood out to me in the codex as one of the only efficient troop choices available.

Fearless, AP 3 template just those two things alone make them very good for holding or trying to take objectives in cover. They can also be used to cull horde squads, and at I5 they are not useless in melee.

I'm glad to read you are having sucess with them, I will be playing two squads of them in a game or two tomorrow.