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I started WM....hmm, about October this year. Had played about 18 games, and.......most of them are lost.
I do know the play style of PoM, but on the field, it just now works as the others said.[ Like the choirs hiding behind the jacks, spread out, preform passage, shielding]
But it seems my oppoments can always figure out a way to get me.[ie spary attacks, aoes or simply move to another postion to shoot.]
I'm so confused abou how the units and caster should be place, I feel so strange on the field like where ever I go my oppoments can always get me, by.....many ways.
so I would like to ask what's the best way to get my support units and casters safe?
Thanks guys

What are the models you own? What are your opponents?

Warmachine is not only about the faction, its all about your list composition and your own playstyle and tactics.


I play Menoth so I can help, but I need some specifics on what you are using.

The learning curve for this game is pretty brutal. Just because your losing doesn't mean you can't learn from each game and get better.

It sounds like your having trouble with ranged assassinations. The best defense vs. ranged attacks is keeping distance. This won't always be possible but try to be mindful of where you leave your caster. The second best guard against ranged attacks is to block line of sight -either with solid terrain or models that can't be knocked down or easily killed. The covenant is a great support model that can help you with that knockdown immunity.

Also, not knowing your list composition, it could be that you are relying too much on slow melee threats. Some new players seem to go for a wall of crusaders, which is only fun until you play pHaley. Try bringing a combined arms list with some ranged attacks of your own to force your opponent to close in to the engagement.

One way to protect a caster from ranged assassinations is to block LoS with a larger based Jack and have the Choir sing Passage. So unless your opponent has magical Sprays he won't be able to hit your caster.

 Grey Templar wrote:
What are the models you own? What are your opponents?

Warmachine is not only about the faction, its all about your list composition and your own playstyle and tactics.


I play Menoth so I can help, but I need some specifics on what you are using.

Thank you for your reply. I normally play 25 and 35 pts. I go PKeross[haven't try any casters yet] with Reckoner,Vanqiusher and Crusader. Units are Choirs, vassals and the big book[well I don't really know how to play this one, but the others said it's pretty important.]
If 35 I'll get Errants with UA.
For me, I mostly try to get good postion, and set up defense[ DW lamentation choir hymns and enliven]. And see how my oppoments will do, then I will consider is too charge or shoot.[ Well least that's what I think.....mostly end up the oppoments get my supports killed or caster killed ]
My oppoments are Khador, Cygnar, Cryx and Skonre.

Ok, so the Book is something you have to know how to use properly.

One deal with Menoth is to layer protection.


So, you have the book right behind your line of warjacks.

If you use Lawgiver's Creed with the Book and cast Passage on your Warjacks, suddenly your Warjacks can't be targeted by non-magical ranged attacks AND if the enemy is within 10" of the book they can't cast spells at your jacks either. This severely limits what the enemy can shoot at.

Alternativly, if you are facing someone that likes knocking you down(Skorne) or making you stationary(Sorsha's Feat) then the power of Faith action will be better.


Also, remember that Hymns and the Vassel actions have a range. You don't have to be right up next to your warjacks.

Is there anything specifically that your opponents are using to take out your support?

Hmm....yes, many.
Well for the last game, my Khador oppoment just get a unit of winter guards with UA and SOLO, and he sprayed my choirs right infront my jacks with passage.

Wait what? Your Choir are in FRONT of your jacks! Thats your problem.

Step 1: Activate Choir, be 3" Behind said Warjack getting buffed.

Step 2: Warjacks move foward leaving a 7-8" Gap between them so they are now in the back lines.

You said Choir's ? You should only be taking 1 unit of them.. Max if you cannot keep them alive.

Crusader does not help Keross much

25pts you will Struggle if you dont have an infantry Jam Unit.

pKeross
Reckoner
Vanqisher

Min Choir
Max Temple Flameguard + UA
Covenant
Vassel

Max TFG + UA with defenders ward can be a nightmare for an opponet to get through.. and it will help keep the choir safer. Def15 ARM 19... 23 on feat turn.. SPD 6...Reach..

KD turn POW 10's with 3d6 damage will kill most infantry..


The book is nice, if you have a Knockdown / Stationary in your meta alot. I usually go with 2x Vassels.

In 35, the points free from the Crusader and 2nd choir would get you a 3rd heavy shooting Jack for more PoP Drop goodness.

 Grey Templar wrote:
Wait what? Your Choir are in FRONT of your jacks! Thats your problem.

A rather large one at that. The choir can easily advance and affect a jack within 5" giving them a 11" effective range they can start the turn away from the jacks. Staying the max distance might not be a great move since it will leave you out of range if the jacks run or charge but they can hang way back if you want. keep your choir at least 3" behind your jacks though, more if you know a ranged unit is closing in, they are never good as a front line unit.

Sry for bad english lol...... What I really mean is, my choirs did stay behind the jacks, but my oppoment sparied the jacks as a target, it also affected my choirs.

Hymn range is actually 3", so they have a 9" range technically. But of course the Jack can move out of range so for something like Battle you can end up with the Choi moving up, casting Battle, and then the jack charges its target. So the Choir end up a fair distance away from the Jack itself, and theoretically the front line.

I do sometimes use choir as a late game jamming unit but its usually a case where I have 6 choir boys left and only 1 jack, so I can send a couple of the Choir somewhere to get in the way.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 FredNing wrote:
Sry for bad english lol...... What I really mean is, my choirs did stay behind the jacks, but my oppoment sparied the jacks as a target, it also affected my choirs.

Ok, that makes sense. But if you had Passage on the Jacks he couldn't have done that unless they were magical sprays, which Winterguard blunderbusses are not.

Passage makes your Jacks not able to be targeted, so unless he could see the Choir it would have been illegal.

But he could target the Choir and be able to hit the Jacks. Passage is can't be targeted, not can't be hurt by.

 FredNing wrote:
Sry for bad english lol...... What I really mean is, my choirs did stay behind the jacks, but my oppoment sparied the jacks as a target, it also affected my choirs.

it is still a simple matter of keeping the choir farther back. leave them about 5-6" behind your jacks at the end of the turn and they should be safely out of range. Or you could just make the jacks untargetable to ranged attacks entirely.

 Dais wrote:

 FredNing wrote:
Sry for bad english lol...... What I really mean is, my choirs did stay behind the jacks, but my oppoment sparied the jacks as a target, it also affected my choirs.

it is still a simple matter of keeping the choir farther back. leave them about 5-6" behind your jacks at the end of the turn and they should be safely out of range. Or you could just make the jacks untargetable to ranged attacks entirely.

I'll take that,thanks.
Come to think if it, I found that most of the time I keep the choirs too close to the jacks


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Spyder68 wrote:
Step 1: Activate Choir, be 3" Behind said Warjack getting buffed.

Step 2: Warjacks move foward leaving a 7-8" Gap between them so they are now in the back lines.

You said Choir's ? You should only be taking 1 unit of them.. Max if you cannot keep them alive.

Crusader does not help Keross much

25pts you will Struggle if you dont have an infantry Jam Unit.

pKeross
Reckoner
Vanqisher

Min Choir
Max Temple Flameguard + UA
Covenant
Vassel

Max TFG + UA with defenders ward can be a nightmare for an opponet to get through.. and it will help keep the choir safer. Def15 ARM 19... 23 on feat turn.. SPD 6...Reach..

KD turn POW 10's with 3d6 damage will kill most infantry..


The book is nice, if you have a Knockdown / Stationary in your meta alot. I usually go with 2x Vassels.

In 35, the points free from the Crusader and 2nd choir would get you a 3rd heavy shooting Jack for more PoP Drop goodness.

I haven't try the Flame Guards yet, and I'm not quite sure how to play them...... So like most of the time they B2B with one another to get the shield wall buff, then after pKeross pop feat they charge to get the enemy? If charge jacks they go combine meele atks?

You can just move them as a Hard to kil brick. Def 15 isnt easy to hit by alot of Infantry.

On Warcaster feat turn, you drop shield wall, and charge what you need (other infantry) they are not that great at charging Warjacks.

Also the Flameguard have a mini feat for +4 ARM for a turn, you can use this before you charge and still be very tough.

Combined melee attack is good when you need help hitting your target.. but if they are knocked down.. You do not have that issue. Combining for damage i havent been a big fan of.
Each Flameguard is a PS10 +3d6 on charge for an average of 20 dmg.
Combining would only raise that to 22. ish if you used 2x of them

If you look. Most Warjacks and Warbeasts are MAT 6.
MAT 6 on your Def 15 Flameguard they need 9's to hit. which isnt fun to do. You will cause your opponet to burn focus/fury just to hit the flameguards.
If a Warbeast charges your TFG. Your reckoner can just walk up behind them and club said warbeast down.

Also to note. TFG have set defence, so if enemy infantry charge them.. they will be DEF 17 against the first attack made by each model... This nullifies alot of attacks if your opponet charges you.

 Spyder68 wrote:
You can just move them as a Hard to kil brick. Def 15 isnt easy to hit by alot of Infantry.

On Warcaster feat turn, you drop shield wall, and charge what you need (other infantry) they are not that great at charging Warjacks.

Also the Flameguard have a mini feat for +4 ARM for a turn, you can use this before you charge and still be very tough.

Combined melee attack is good when you need help hitting your target.. but if they are knocked down.. You do not have that issue. Combining for damage i havent been a big fan of.
Each Flameguard is a PS10 +3d6 on charge for an average of 20 dmg.
Combining would only raise that to 22. ish if you used 2x of them

If you look. Most Warjacks and Warbeasts are MAT 6.
MAT 6 on your Def 15 Flameguard they need 9's to hit. which isnt fun to do. You will cause your opponet to burn focus/fury just to hit the flameguards.
If a Warbeast charges your TFG. Your reckoner can just walk up behind them and club said warbeast down.

Also to note. TFG have set defence, so if enemy infantry charge them.. they will be DEF 17 against the first attack made by each model... This nullifies alot of attacks if your opponet charges you.

Many thanks,I'll try them next time!