Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

So I've been trying to thin my paints, but my results are uninspiring. I can't seem to get a good solid coat over the primer that conceals its color, even with citadel "base" colors that are designed to be more opaque

I usually thin by taking my brush, grabbing a light coat of paint on it, and then dipping the tip in water (this way I don't waste paint by putting it on a pallet just to dry up). Is there another method I'm missing?

I had some trouble too but I have watched alot of videos and I have had success with overcoming both issues with the following:

Make a wet pallette. Get an old tupperware container with a lid. Put a folded sheet of paper towel in the bottom and then one sheet of wax paper (comes in a roll like tinfoil) over that. Wet the paper towel. The paint will not dry out.

For coverage, its a matter of choosing the correct primer if you have the option ie black, grey, white or colors and/or picking the right base before your desired end color.
ie....
Gold metallic works great over a brown base which covers all primer colors
Silver goes on easy over a black base and/or primer
White is best over white primer but if you have black primer, maybe go with a light grey over the primer first before the white
Yellow is alot easier if you paint a base of yellow ochre from vallejo first as it covers anything. eg vid from buypainted on his deff dredd ..... 4 minute mark of http://youtu.be/EsqDx0GResc
Lighter shades of red go down better over a base with some red tones like some shades of tan.

 eoinmorgan wrote:
So I've been trying to thin my paints, but my results are uninspiring. I can't seem to get a good solid coat over the primer that conceals its color, even with citadel "base" colors that are designed to be more opaque

I usually thin by taking my brush, grabbing a light coat of paint on it, and then dipping the tip in water (this way I don't waste paint by putting it on a pallet just to dry up). Is there another method I'm missing?

I would suggest your method is the problem here. You have no great degree of control on your paint/thinner ratio by dipping the brush in as you are. You need to decant to a pallet (I use old plates/ceramic tiles but blister pack plastic works too as does a wet pallet as mentioned above) to ensure you are getting the right mix. As a starting point a 1:1 mix should be the starting point. I use a pipette to get one drop of thinner on the pallet then use a standard brush to get a similar sized drop of paint and then mix the two; then use a differant brush to paint with though this isn't that important. Yes you will use more paint but that isn't important compared to the better mix created.

You might also want to look at getting a differant thinning agent to water. I use tamiya x20a thinner as well as Vallejo acrylic airbrush thinner for the old range of citadel paints, I find that these work well and create thin but strong colours.

The final thing to remember is that thinned paints do require more coats, so you will not necessarily see full coverage with even the foundation paints.

Saliva works wonders for thinning. Easily accessible and free.

 angel of ecstasy wrote:
Saliva works wonders for thinning. Easily accessible and free.

Oh wow, so its not just me then that does this....

Gotta be a good litre of my spit in the paint on all my armies hahahaha. But for some reason it just works- maybe you have a lot of control of exactly how moist you can make the brush...?

I would definitely agree on making your own wet palette.

Go hit the market, grab a pack of your favorite lunch meat (Hillshire Farms Deli Carvers):


I also found a sponge cloth in the cleaning department:


Put 1 layer of parchment paper on top, add water enough to soak the sponge plus just a little bit to sit in the bottom, and your golden.

Mix on your parchment paper, and when you walk away, put your lid on. I've had the same paint sitting in my wet palette for 2 weeks now and I hardly have to re-wet it at all when I sit down.

----

As for your ratio, I also agree: the dip-for-dip method isn't working. I put acrylic paint thinner in a dropper bottle for ease-of-use for adding to my paint on my palette.

I like to dip my brush in water so its moist and wet then dip into the pot. The paint flows so smooth into the model.

When ever i buy a new pot of paint first thing i do is open the top and fill it nearly to the top with windolene or in the us windex...!

Another thing great to have is to prepare a thinning solution. The proportions vary based on the paint you use, and your personal tastes, but the mix consists of distilled water, extender solution, and flow improver.
Here are some examples:
http://www.reapermini.com/forum/index.php?/topic/13561-recipes-for-thinnerpaint-extender/page-3

 Tempest Six Two wrote:

 angel of ecstasy wrote:
Saliva works wonders for thinning. Easily accessible and free.

Oh wow, so its not just me then that does this....

Gotta be a good litre of my spit in the paint on all my armies hahahaha. But for some reason it just works- maybe you have a lot of control of exactly how moist you can make the brush...?

Hehe, my models are covered in spit too. But it is excellent. Just water makes the paint too runny. It creates like a "frame" of paint while the paint inside runs off. It becomes very ugly. Saliva is thicker than water but thinner than paint, which is at least what I look for in paint thinners. Plus again, it's very very expendable.

Some people like to drink coffee while they paint. They shouldn't use spit. Unless they're painting Uruk Hai.

One more vote for thinning on a palette, especially a wet palette. Most of my initial troubles with thinning came from using a standard plastic palette and fighting evaporation (dry room and hot lights, plus a relatively slow pace made things rather difficult). My cheap DIY wet palette keeps things at the consistency I mix them to much longer, without doing much of anything to affect them on their own, unless left sealed for extended periods of time (i.e. overnight). No wastage, either, unless I added too much for the model(s) I'm painting - it stays workable until it's naught but a stain on the paper.

The rest of the problems came from trying to get a perfect mix off the bat, going drop-for-drop (or brushload, in my case). What really helped me get a feel for thinning was laying down a blob of paint and a small pool of water near each other on my palette, then pulling from each into a central pool from which I would paint. This allowed me to adjust my mix on the fly, either to the task at hand or to counter evaporation (started this method before the wet palette). Much better control that way, until you get a good enough feel for it. Now, I'll sometimes go by the brushload again, but I know when it's appropriate.

As far as coverage is concerned, thinned paints will, as notprop said, cover less. If a solid coat is your main concern, thin only as much as it takes to get the paint to lay down smoothly. A 1:1 dilution is quite possibly more than you need for that sort of task, while it's still quite thick for others. Thinning is a skill that takes time to develop - keep messing around with it and you'll pick it up before you know it.

@ eoinmorgan: Here is the method that use. Hope this helps!

http://youtu.be/LieIi9WfBBY

How I thin my paints:

1: take paint pot, open it
2:walk to sink, turn on so that it is tiny stream
3:put water in pot so that it is almost full
4:shake well, paint. It should be about the consistency of milk

This works really well for me. It works fine, and saves time as well as money.

 andtheyshallknownofear wrote:
How I thin my paints:

1: take paint pot, open it
2:walk to sink, turn on so that it is tiny stream
3:put water in pot so that it is almost full
4:shake well, paint. It should be about the consistency of milk

This works really well for me. It works fine, and saves time as well as money.

I just wouldnt want to dilute tho whole paint pot for future mixes with other colours. like making a blue slightly lighter by mixing with a grey for edge highlighting or making armour look sun worn

 oadie wrote:


The rest of the problems came from trying to get a perfect mix off the bat, going drop-for-drop (or brushload, in my case). What really helped me get a feel for thinning was laying down a blob of paint and a small pool of water near each other on my palette, then pulling from each into a central pool from which I would paint. This allowed me to adjust my mix on the fly, either to the task at hand or to counter evaporation (started this method before the wet palette). Much better control that way, until you get a good enough feel for it. Now, I'll sometimes go by the brushload again, but I know when it's appropriate..

I find this is the best way if thinning small amounts of paint i.e. anything less than 4 drops for a batch or large area.

 eoinmorgan wrote:
So I've been trying to thin my paints, but my results are uninspiring. I can't seem to get a good solid coat over the primer that conceals its color, even with citadel "base" colors that are designed to be more opaque

I usually thin by taking my brush, grabbing a light coat of paint on it, and then dipping the tip in water (this way I don't waste paint by putting it on a pallet just to dry up). Is there another method I'm missing?

One thing nobody has asked is : Are you expecting to get full, opaque coverage in one coat? If so, then your expectations are wrong. You will need 2-3 (more for some colours) coats to get proper full coverage.

I would rather waste a small amount of paint everytime I use some but get good coverage etc on my model, I mean honestly, how much does a small bit of paint drying on a pallet cost, and considering the prices of most of the GW models I think its a price worth paying to get them painted as best you can

James

@Exalbaru: I don't see why you wouldn't want to have it slightly more diluted then GW gives it to you as. You can still mix paints if they are watered down. And I don't have any problems with highlighting when my paint is watered down.

My post above seems a bit moody, its not how its meant to come accross so sorry if it did,

James

 andtheyshallknownofear wrote:
@Exalbaru: I don't see why you wouldn't want to have it slightly more diluted then GW gives it to you as. You can still mix paints if they are watered down. And I don't have any problems with highlighting when my paint is watered down.

If you pre-thin your pots you would find it much more difficult to wet-blend and drybrush. It's easy to add water to suit basecoat, layering, washing and glazing techniques, but takes much longer to evaporate it back to a more useful (read: flexible/versatile) 'middle' consistency.

If you only use thinned paints and it works for your techniques (because all you do is basecoat, layer, edge ie), then by all means carry on. I know people that paint entire minis using only dry pigments too!



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 oadie wrote:

The rest of the problems came from trying to get a perfect mix off the bat, going drop-for-drop (or brushload, in my case). What really helped me get a feel for thinning was laying down a blob of paint and a small pool of water near each other on my palette, then pulling from each into a central pool from which I would paint. This allowed me to adjust my mix on the fly, either to the task at hand or to counter evaporation (started this method before the wet palette). Much better control that way, until you get a good enough feel for it. Now, I'll sometimes go by the brushload again, but I know when it's appropriate.
.

I see this all the time too. Oadie's post is worth listening to, peeps. Get a palette and quite literally go with the flow. I personally have no set ratios - it's all just tweaked on the fly depending what opacity and viscosity I require from that particular brush load.

To do this is a simple matter of practice as usual. Paint consistency still trips up some of the best painter I know sometimes. The mojo is a lot easier to lose than it is to learn in the first place. Just keep at it and you'll start to click eventually.