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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/12/30 16:48:38
Subject: Dark Eldar Tourney List
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Fresh-Faced New User
Dublin, CA
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I am planning on running this list in upcoming tournaments and am looking to do well, I am more concerned with not spending a day getting wrecked every round as opposed to winning the whole thing (granted that is always nice).
Archon
Huskblade, Soul Trap, Clone Field 125pts
Haemonculi
x3, Liquifier Gun x3 180pts
Warriors
x10, Dark Lance 115pts
Warriors
x10, Dark Lance 115pts
Wyches
x9, Raider 155pts
Wyches
x9, Raider 155pts
Incubi
x5, Raider 170pts
Harlequins
x5, Harlequins Kiss x5, Shadowseer x1 140pts
Grotesques
x5 175pts
Reaver Jetbikes
x3, Blaster 81pts
Reaver Jetbikes
x3, Blaster 81pts
Razorwing Jetfighter
Disintegrator Cannons x2 145pts
Ravager 105pts
Ravager 105pts
The Haemonculi will join each of the Wych units and the grotesque units, to grant the starting pain token (and make sure the grotesques don't explode...). The Archon joins the Incubi and their idea is to be a strong counter attack unit. My hope is that this works out to be a fairly strong all comer list. Please let me know of any glaring weaknesses you see, I have played 40k forever but am completely new to Dark Eldar.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/12/30 18:09:23
Subject: Dark Eldar Tourney List
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Regular Dakkanaut
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You need to give your wyches haywire's. Personally i prefer having one unit of 6 reavers with 2 heat lances. I also think that if you get your warriors a raider each then its another thing they have to get through before your stuck with just T3 5+ to protect you it will also help keep the army mobile. not sure about the Grotesques haven't played them. I love harlequins (who doesn't love space clowns) but they will be very slow and if they have ignore cover there dead.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/12/30 22:04:30
Subject: Dark Eldar Tourney List
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Executing Exarch
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Harlequins are cool, but a few on foot are just targets, they would be points better spent elsewhere.
Second the wytches needing HWG's(also maybe take a wytch weapon, I favor shardnet and impaler), and heat lances over blasters for the reavers.
I personally like enhanced aethersails on assault raiders so you can be in combat turn 2.
Night shields would be nice on the ravagers.
Razorwing needs a flickerfield, and I would keep dark lances. It is not much for AA, but it is better than nothing.
Give the grotesques a liquifier gun, and maybe drop one to put em in a raider. They are decent, but not that survivable against mass fire.Best to have them in raiders to get to combat quick.
The incubi lack grenades,so they are only useful to assault units in the open or already in combat. If you want the clone field you need ghostplate armor for a decent save, but the archon is still easy to kill.
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The most important rule of 40K-Page XVII of the 6th edition rulebook, the figure at the top right of the page. "Shake hands with your opponent and thank them for a good battle and fun experience." Then go out for a beer.
Shine bright like Iyanden |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/12/30 23:59:30
Subject: Re:Dark Eldar Tourney List
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Fresh-Faced New User
Dublin, CA
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Thanks guys, what you mentioned is exactly the little stuff I knew I missed but is useful. I really like a lot of the changes (can't believe I missed haywire grenades...) and will work on them. As far as no grenades on Incubi I normally play Chaos so I'm painfully aware/used to my elite, close combat only units not having them...
I figured with the amount of lances the army has vehicles wouldn't be a problem for the jet, but I can see how having some AA is better than nothing.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/12/31 13:48:15
Subject: Dark Eldar Tourney List
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Lethal Lhamean
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While the two helpers before me have given quite sound advice on the smaller side of the army, I think a rethink of the whole thing would be a decent idea.
Warning: Wall of text ahead.
What I see when I read the list is small amounts of lots of things. What I see when I read a good list is (generally) a core of either warriors or wyches (your choice, but some of each means you won't have enough assault stuff to assault well, and not enough shooty stuff to shoot well). Oh, and it's been said before, but HWG on wyches.
Next, I expect to see a full heavy support section. Well done there. I'm not entirely sold on only having one flyer (have more or none, chances are they can avoid only one or will have the guns to bring it down), but if you do only bring one (which won't outright destroy the list) then splinter cannons are nice if you have spare points, but as far as I know that's a good weapons setup for it. I don't use flyers personally, so ask someone else.
The Fast Attack look good to me. I rarely use more than 3 reavers, so I don't know whether they should be in one squad, but I find that blasters work better than heat lances. But really, it's your choice.
For the HQs, I expect to see (if possible) a haemonculus for each wych squad and preferably one for each other assault squad as well. Take another HQ if you want, I don't generally find it worthwhile but on occasion it's won me the game. Overall, the HQs look reasonable to me.
However, the last point did bring us onto an important point. Other assault squads. As said before, drop the Harlies. The key to a good army, as I hinted at when talking about the troops, is often not having a variety, but rather having plenty of a good thing. 5 Incubi, great. Gonna charge in, chop stuff up, get a pain token, move on and hopefully chop up more stuff. But I've found that they are good at chopping stuff up, but then the enemy throws in something like a LR Redeemer or a dreadnought at them, and they're dead. Take 2 squads of 4 in venoms. This has numerous benefits: venoms are particularly useful for whittling squads down to size, there's still enough incubi to do plenty of damage (especially when the squad's just been attacked by 12 splinter shots), you can be attacking 2 enemies at once and if they've got one prized unit that can easily destroy them, it's going to destroy one, find itself in a bad position, and get destroyed by wyches or warriors. I'm also not sure what the grotesques are there for, if you need high strength then that's what the shooting phase is for, and if you need to tie up an enemy that's what the wyches are there for. They're cool, but not as competitive as other stuff.
So, in conclusion, sort out the troops and elites, and everything else should fall into place.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/12/31 15:26:54
Subject: Re:Dark Eldar Tourney List
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Fresh-Faced New User
Dublin, CA
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Thanks again!
They're cool, but not as competitive as other stuff.
That sums up the reason for the harlies and grotesques perfectly, though I would like to think the could be used competitively if applied right...
An idea that I have been running through my head was to drop the grotesques and use those points to beef up one of the other elites a bit and add another troop choice.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/12/31 15:47:03
Subject: Dark Eldar Tourney List
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Secretive Dark Angels Veteran
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Why disintegrators on the razor wing? Personally I like the 2 lances. Gives you some serious anti flyer as your 2 shots are pretty solid vs the AV12 flyers.
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~Ice~
Da' Burnin Couch 2018 Best Overall
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2019 ITC #1 Overall Best Admech
LVO 2019 #1 Admech |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/12/31 20:13:45
Subject: Re:Dark Eldar Tourney List
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Smokin' Skorcha Driver
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The only thing I would add that wasnt already said is that I would drop the archon for the baron and drop the harlies and grots for a large beast squad. Incubi and beasts work really well together and with a huge squad of beasts charging up the table your small squad of incubi will quickly become less of a target. Automatically Appended Next Post: Oh and make sure you put the baron with the beasts to give them that nice cover bonous
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/12/31 20:16:11
Friendship is like peeing on yourself: everyone can see it, but only you get the warm feeling that it brings. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/12/31 20:36:11
Subject: Re:Dark Eldar Tourney List
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Executing Exarch
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Dionysius wrote:Thanks again! They're cool, but not as competitive as other stuff. That sums up the reason for the harlies and grotesques perfectly, though I would like to think the could be used competitively if applied right... An idea that I have been running through my head was to drop the grotesques and use those points to beef up one of the other elites a bit and add another troop choice. Grotesques are pretty competitive actually... a full squad of 10 on foot with some IC boosting is a damn hard squad to shift. 4 in a raider with a hamey and/or another IC makes a good quick assault unit as well. With the hamey, you have S6 mini tanks on the charge, popping double liquifiers before the assault. With an IC like an archon, you get a straight up murderer to accept challenges and kill characters,while the grots smash the squad to bits. Wont kill terminators all that great, but you can smash through just about anything else no problem. The aberration upgrade is good with a scissorhand or venom blade. Lots of attacks that re roll to wound will drop some bodies. Grots are not killers of special elite units, but the rest of your assault units excel at that. Let the incubi and wytches handle the small elite squads, Grotesques do crowd control. Harlequins are better in craftworld lists, but are not totally awful. They are just expensive special assault units in a codex swamped with better choices for the same job(and no access to a transport). Wytches, wracks, grots and incubi are either better, or cheap enough to justify their slightly weaker punch.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/12/31 20:38:53
The most important rule of 40K-Page XVII of the 6th edition rulebook, the figure at the top right of the page. "Shake hands with your opponent and thank them for a good battle and fun experience." Then go out for a beer.
Shine bright like Iyanden |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/01/01 17:56:32
Subject: Re:Dark Eldar Tourney List
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Lethal Lhamean
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I'm sorry, I have to disagree with you on a few points. A full squad of 10 on foot with some IC boosting is a damn hard squad to shift.
Yes, but that would just be left behind, given that the rest of the army has raiders. 4 in a raider with a hamey and/or another IC makes a good quick assault unit as well. With the hamey, you have S6 mini tanks on the charge, popping double liquifiers before the assault.
Sorry, while Grotesques are half-decent at being powerful, I wouldn't call them mini-tanks in a game where TH/ SS termies exist. They're just not that good. With an IC like an archon, you get a straight up murderer to accept challenges and kill characters,while the grots smash the squad to bits. Wont kill terminators all that great, but you can smash through just about anything else no problem. The aberration upgrade is good with a scissorhand or venom blade. Lots of attacks that re roll to wound will drop some bodies.
All true I suppose, but the problem I have is trying to understand what a squad of incubi couldn't do, and they deal with quite a few termies as well, especially if you have 4 in a venom so that you can whittle them down then charge. Grots are not killers of special elite units, but the rest of your assault units excel at that. Let the incubi and wyches handle the small elite squads, Grotesques do crowd control.
You see, I think this is the problem. For so expensive a unit, all grotesques give is a little more survivability, which simply isn't the point of DE unless you go for a fully-haemonculus army. For more points, you're getting a squad that's just as good against normal stuff and worse against elites. Oh, and it can't take a venom, which is quite possibly the best DE model in the game. Harlequins are better in craftworld lists, but are not totally awful.
Sorry, but yes they are. They are just expensive special assault units in a codex swamped with better choices for the same job(and no access to a transport). Wytches, wracks, grots and incubi are either better, or cheap enough to justify their slightly weaker punch.
Uh... why were you just saying they aren't totally awful? You just said that they are more expensive, have less hitting power and are less survivable than the other options.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/01/01 19:12:49
Subject: Dark Eldar Tourney List
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Irked Necron Immortal
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In my experience Dr Serling gives spot on Eldar/Dark Eldar advice, and it's been pretty on the button here too.
A 10 man unit of Grotesques (with the baron and urien for lulz) will go through many armies that are not packing demolisher cannons. Whilst slower than the rest of the DE army, just run them and in 2 turns they wont have taken hardly any casaulties if you swap the wounded ones at the front, and they are a sledgehammer that will annihilate most combat units. Including hammernators as they still get their FNP saves and weight of attacks they will swamp them. However I do agree that a unit of 5 is not as near as scary.
Harlequins - as already stated, if your going to take them take craftworld eldar harlies, with a fortune/doomseer for the re-rollable 2+ cover save. This is also a good way to deliver your archon into CC without the perils of Exploding Raider Syndrome ( tm).
Currently I have replaced my beloved squad of 6 Incubi + Succubus with venom blade for 8 Harlies with 6 kisses, Death Jester, Shadowseer, Fortune/Doomseer + Archon with powerspear/venom blade/shadowfield as my counter unit that sits behind 5 venoms and 3 ravagers, rerolling 2+ and waiting to jump out and murder something. Works very well.
Incubi - gotta love them. Difficult to use effectively without them getting pasted after the 1st assault, but they are so cool that its nearly worth it
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/01/01 19:44:46
Subject: Re:Dark Eldar Tourney List
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Regular Dakkanaut
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I think the advice is good aswell especially with 6th ed challenges, take this for example;
Archon, husk blade, soul trap, shadowfield 135
Haemonculus, L.gun 60
4 x grotesques, L.gun 150
Raider, nightshields 70
this unit could hold its own against most elite units, archon for challenges, haemi for extra pain token to gain furious charge thats 16 S6 attacks from the grotesques hitting on 4's most of the time, and they have a feel no pain so they could last easily a couple of rounds of combat. and the archon can more than take on enemies in challenges.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/01/01 19:46:05
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/01/01 20:31:48
Subject: Re:Dark Eldar Tourney List
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Fresh-Faced New User
Dublin, CA
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Thanks again everyone!
I've been thinking on the harle/grots and am leaning towards dropping the harle's and going with a bigger grots squad, and I have always been planning on running it with at least the haemonculus for the bonus pain token right out of the gate. I had not considered putting an archon there, but I like it for challanges. Make the harle's a side-board type unit as I think they are cool playwise (good but not the greatest thing) and really am just wanting to paint them.
I am pretty set in stone on the archon for fluff reasons behind the list as far as load out and taking an archon in general.
I was thinking of disintegrators on the fighter as I already have a pretty high number of lances and figured i wouldn't need the anti-tank as much as anti-infantry/termies, but a earlier post mentioned the lances on it for AA and I am testing that out (luckily I magnetized it so either way is a simple switch).
Finally, I have been slammed at work and moved, but will try to get a revised list up within the next few days.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/01/03 11:50:21
Subject: Re:Dark Eldar Tourney List
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Lethal Lhamean
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Daemonic_soul1990 wrote:I think the advice is good aswell especially with 6th ed challenges, take this for example;
Archon, husk blade, soul trap, shadowfield 135
Haemonculus, L.gun 60
4 x grotesques, L.gun 150
Raider, nightshields 70
this unit could hold its own against most elite units, archon for challenges, haemi for extra pain token to gain furious charge thats 16 S6 attacks from the grotesques hitting on 4's most of the time, and they have a feel no pain so they could last easily a couple of rounds of combat. and the archon can more than take on enemies in challenges.
Caranthir987 wrote:In my experience Dr Serling gives spot on Eldar/Dark Eldar advice, and it's been pretty on the button here too.
A 10 man unit of Grotesques (with the baron and urien for lulz) will go through many armies that are not packing demolisher cannons. Whilst slower than the rest of the DE army, just run them and in 2 turns they wont have taken hardly any casaulties if you swap the wounded ones at the front, and they are a sledgehammer that will annihilate most combat units. Including hammernators as they still get their FNP saves and weight of attacks they will swamp them. However I do agree that a unit of 5 is not as near as scary.
Harlequins - as already stated, if your going to take them take craftworld eldar harlies, with a fortune/doomseer for the re-rollable 2+ cover save. This is also a good way to deliver your archon into CC without the perils of Exploding Raider Syndrome (tm).
Currently I have replaced my beloved squad of 6 Incubi + Succubus with venom blade for 8 Harlies with 6 kisses, Death Jester, Shadowseer, Fortune/Doomseer + Archon with powerspear/venom blade/shadowfield as my counter unit that sits behind 5 venoms and 3 ravagers, rerolling 2+ and waiting to jump out and murder something. Works very well.
I'm sorry, both of you are wrong. If I ever face grotesques, my first thought is always, "ooh good, fresh meat." Really, they aren't scary. Just spam them with gunfire and the occasional unit you throw in their way and it's really not hard to get rid of them. The archon with a shadowfield, yes, something to be scared of, but it still goes away with massed fire. Everything else is really not that hard.
As for harlequins, they just don't work. Keep the incubi and get more, drop the other elites you have.
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