Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Hi guys I am new to fantasy and i just wondered are Warriors of chaos played by a lot of people? and are they quite a strong army?

thanks

Yes, they are a popular army, but no particular army is played by more people than another. There isn't a Space Marine equivilent that everybody plays.

And yes they are a fairly strong army. They have solid troops and good magic support while being quite strong in melee. They only lack ranged attacks, and they still have the quite nasty Hellcannon.

I despise space marines!

ok awesome well I think I have found my army, It was between WOC,vampire counts or orks.

well if it was between WOC Vampire counts or orks well each has there own advatages like with counts you get to end the game with more points than you started if you play them right. Orcs are generally a well rounded force so long as you get enough boyz. WOC are a strong army as they do have probably the best core choice in the entire game system but with lacking ranged attacks they fall short when they face good shooty armies such as the elven armies.

Not really. Shooting that isn't a cannon or a Stone Thrower isn't powerful enough to cause enough of an impact.

Str3 elven shooting needs 5s to wound a Warrior who then gets a 4+ save, or 3+/6+ if its a Tzeentch Sword and Board warrior.

the number of shots needed to kill one shield armed warrior at long range is 27. 5s to hit, 5s to wound, and then a 3+ save. Slightly more if he has MoT.

I play orks 40k do the prospect of painting another 100 boyz really scares me.

thanks for the info guys...i might try to play a game with both armies before i commit, I use to play undead along time ago and think i still have a nicely painted nagash!!

 Grey Templar wrote:
Not really. Shooting that isn't a cannon or a Stone Thrower isn't powerful enough to cause enough of an impact.

Str3 elven shooting needs 5s to wound a Warrior who then gets a 4+ save, or 3+/6+ if its a Tzeentch Sword and Board warrior.

the number of shots needed to kill one shield armed warrior at long range is 27. 5s to hit, 5s to wound, and then a 3+ save. Slightly more if he has MoT.

Depends what your up against, Elves have a BS of 4 so would only need 3's or 4's to hit (of course depending on Range and if they move etc etc). Plus they can field a staggering amount of bows lol.

We talking all 3 types of elves?

Daston wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:
Not really. Shooting that isn't a cannon or a Stone Thrower isn't powerful enough to cause enough of an impact.

Str3 elven shooting needs 5s to wound a Warrior who then gets a 4+ save, or 3+/6+ if its a Tzeentch Sword and Board warrior.

the number of shots needed to kill one shield armed warrior at long range is 27. 5s to hit, 5s to wound, and then a 3+ save. Slightly more if he has MoT.

Depends what your up against, Elves have a BS of 4 so would only need 3's or 4's to hit (of course depending on Range and if they move etc etc). Plus they can field a staggering amount of bows lol.

Yes, but at best you have one round of long range shooting while having moved(so 5s to hit), then one round of long range no move(4+ to hit), and then stand and shoot(4+) before getting slaughtered in melee.

Thats assuming no sort of cover. And even with hitting on 4s, you arn't going to kill enough of them before they hit melee. And there isn't a single elf ranged unit that has any hope of standing up to Str4 T4 3+ save opponents in melee. The warriors are also I5 so some elves may not even get to smack them first, and even HEs will lose some rerolls due to ASF.


Basically, shooting in this game is quite lame due to the short ranges relative to how far a unit can charge.

thehumanplague wrote:
I play orks 40k do the prospect of painting another 100 boyz really scares me.

thanks for the info guys...i might try to play a game with both armies before i commit, I use to play undead along time ago and think i still have a nicely painted nagash!!

If painting 100 models doesn't sound like fun Vampires are not for you. My 2500 point army has over 200 models BEFORE I start raising.

Oh wow I did not realize vampires used so many models! Are they mostly skeletons?

Warriors of chaos have moved into pole position

thehumanplague wrote:
Oh wow I did not realize vampires used so many models! Are they mostly skeletons?

Warriors of chaos have moved into pole position

The bulk are Skeletons, Zombies and Ghouls.

Say, for the Core for a 2000pt army, my VC list is using 50 Skeletons and 25 Ghouls. That comes to roughly 500pts, so the Core minimum.

Just to understand - that's 75 models for just the Core. That's more than the total models my horde Tyranid army uses at 2000pts. For 3000pts, I'll be adding 50 more Skeletons. 125 models in 3000pts without moving out of Core selections.

That's not counting the 40-60 minimum Zombies I'll need painted for raising with the Raise Dead spell. So, at 3000pts, thats over 150 models easily for Core, and raising during the game.

So yeah, you really need to love the VC models, or painting those will get tedious, fast. You also need a quick method to batch paint them, or again, tedious, and fast.

 Grey Templar wrote:

Daston wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:
Not really. Shooting that isn't a cannon or a Stone Thrower isn't powerful enough to cause enough of an impact.

Str3 elven shooting needs 5s to wound a Warrior who then gets a 4+ save, or 3+/6+ if its a Tzeentch Sword and Board warrior.

the number of shots needed to kill one shield armed warrior at long range is 27. 5s to hit, 5s to wound, and then a 3+ save. Slightly more if he has MoT.

Depends what your up against, Elves have a BS of 4 so would only need 3's or 4's to hit (of course depending on Range and if they move etc etc). Plus they can field a staggering amount of bows lol.

Yes, but at best you have one round of long range shooting while having moved(so 5s to hit), then one round of long range no move(4+ to hit), and then stand and shoot(4+) before getting slaughtered in melee.

Thats assuming no sort of cover. And even with hitting on 4s, you arn't going to kill enough of them before they hit melee. And there isn't a single elf ranged unit that has any hope of standing up to Str4 T4 3+ save opponents in melee. The warriors are also I5 so some elves may not even get to smack them first, and even HEs will lose some rerolls due to ASF.


Basically, shooting in this game is quite lame due to the short ranges relative to how far a unit can charge.

well the HE have quite a good chance cos whenever I play against WOC I slaughter him with shooting with my Str 3 bows so dont go by averages or statistics to say what can happen or what will happen because that is never the case so WOC may have some of the best saves but they get killed when faced with HE archers who can beat them in close combat and force them to run.

I used to really love chaos, but GW's last round of updates where they split everything up and blandified it really lost of some of the classic fun and feel for me.

Now, I just read my old Realms books for my chaotic fix.

I don't mind that they split Beastmen, because that model range is pretty awesome. They made it into its own distinctive army.

I don't like daemons being separate from WoC though, because they just don't feel right as their own army. I certainly don't begrudge people who want to run daemons though.

The split move was a really turn-down imo. The problem is that WoC have a very...distinctive style. They usually are a very resolute but straight-forward army...one might even say boring. In a standard list, you can just move your core forward and look forward to it tearing everything apart. Add in 1-2 sorcerers to spam overpowered magic and that's WoC for you.

It's easy to get wins vs. mediocre or weak opponents as they can't outmaneuver you, but against strong players, you need to rely on your magic.

 Sigvatr wrote:
The split move was a really turn-down imo. The problem is that WoC have a very...distinctive style. They usually are a very resolute but straight-forward army...one might even say boring. In a standard list, you can just move your core forward and look forward to it tearing everything apart. Add in 1-2 sorcerers to spam overpowered magic and that's WoC for you.

It's easy to get wins vs. mediocre or weak opponents as they can't outmaneuver you, but against strong players, you need to rely on your magic.

That. Newer players will be grinded under your steel clad boots no problem, but take a '40 warriors and nothing else' list to a tourney and you won't get them in combat.

But anyway, back to the initial questions yes WoC are played a lot but there is no WHFB equivalent of marines that everyone plays. They can be quite a strong army but WHFB is not a 'I brought this army so I win' game.

 jonolikespie wrote:
but WHFB is not a 'I brought this army so I win' game.

Well, not anymore. But the new Daemon book is coming soon...

 jonolikespie wrote:

But anyway, back to the initial questions yes WoC are played a lot but there is no WHFB equivalent of marines that everyone plays. They can be quite a strong army but WHFB is not a 'I brought this army so I win' game.

Sorry, gotta disagree with that. WFB was terrible for having power armies (DE, DoC, VC) at one point! Apart from the hardcore tournament chaps I know, lots of people started drifting away at that point. Then 8th hit and a whole different set of "I win" buttons started appearing.....

The two main GW games both suffer from the same problems really.

With 8th, any army that has reliable magic got an extreme buff to magic and dominates the tournament scene along with the old "I am a lame cheese player who does not want to make friends at any cost"-dwarf corner castle.

DE, Lizzies, Dwarves are a solid choice as they require little skill compared to armies like WE or Bretonnia, but are far superior due to their army book / changes in 8th.

So far my experience with tourneys is that a lot of things that on paper looks like 'I win' buttons turns out of be no better than your opponent's 'I win' button which makes for a fair game.

I've gone up against some some strong builds but the only things I have faced that I would call 'broken' is the dreaded 13th and teclis. Dual hydras, 50 tzeentch warriors with a front row of characters, etc are all hard but not broken since I can bring 40 grave guard with a ghoul king, 2 vampies, manfred the acolite and a cairn wraith to counter it.

Dreaded 13th is only broken till it hits Ogres

I really want to keep away from "i Win" armies.

What army do you see least but is still very aesthetically pleasing?

I much prefer playing for fun than competitive, to be honest I think the whole game is designed around fun and competitive play takes aspects away from it, for example people who play orks in 40k all take the same list to tournaments and leave out the most fun units! ie weird boyz and shokk attack guns!

I

There really isn't an I Win army. There are I Win setups in certain armies with certain setups.

Thats because most true I Win buttons involve magic. And certain Nuke spells will only work on certain armies.

For example, the Lore of Death and Lore of Shadow nuke spells(Purple Sun and Pit of Shades respectivly) are inititive based spells. thus they really work well against armies with low inititive(Ogres, Undead, Lizardmen) but are just so-so against armies with average or high inititve. Armies with average inititive usually have cheap troops, making the still impressive losses less harmful. And high inititve armies just don't care about the spell.

Lore of Life has a Strength based nuke spell. Which does really good against armies with low Str(Str3 is low) but against armies with higher strength its not as damaging.

The Lore of Shadow is particularly nasty because it has 2 Nuke spells. The aforementioned Pit of Shades is an offensive spell, but it also has a Buff spell called Mindrazor. It lets the unit targeted use its Ld value in place of its Strength value when attacking in melee. Which on the armies that have it mean they are usually swinging at Str8+

As stated, you got to look really hard for any I win buttons and they are almost always completely removed from tournaments with the simple rule of: no special characters.

 Grey Templar wrote:
Dreaded 13th is only broken till it hits Ogres

It was FAQ'd. The dreaded 13th only effects infantry and not monstrous infantry. I thought about using it on ogres myself but apparently monstrous infantry aren't effected. It's very stupid and was very frustrating for me to hear considering 7th never considered the idea of monstrous infantry.

 flamingkillamajig wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:
Dreaded 13th is only broken till it hits Ogres

It was FAQ'd. The dreaded 13th only effects infantry and not monstrous infantry.

That was his point. It's 'broken' (as in very powerful) up until you face Ogres, where it's no longer broken, because it does nothing.

Unless they're using Gnoblars.

Which means it'll do nothing.