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MANZ are great I even ran the in 5th when people hated them. If your going to run more than one squad I'd recomended taking Gaz as his Waaagh!!! Changes there Slow and Purposful into Relentless so you can re-roll your charge distance dice and sweeping advance the squads you chew up.

Finally figured out where people were getting that 2+ save from with ADLs (+2 behind defense line going to ground, not +1) lol im always like WTF its a 4+ that makes it a 3+. Somethin else ive been doin wrong apparently .

Ghaz is cool n all but hes ~100pts more expensive than a meganob warboss and i dont quite see him painful enough to shuck that many points out.

While all these comments are helpful, i still feel like i must result to green tides to even attempt to win. Which is what im trying to avoid because theres no fancy stuff going on with it. Even at 1500pts, max boyz would eat about 800-900 of it if i ran them in BW + Trukks (since footslogging is horrible now) and that pretty much leaves me to 1 additional toy, which would be lootas and maybe a SAG.
However, against any army with deepstriking units that have templates or a LOT of dakka, this list is krumped instantly. Which i commonly face. Cant bubble wrap with grots because you can see over them and they cut back on my boyz numbers too.
Which goes back to one of my original gripes - every damn army has some instant transport for something useful...orks dont even have a distraction (kommandos 6+ armor ooo wow)

I was watching 2 friends play (Blood angels vs Necrons) and saw something that i literally dont think i could survive even with bad rolls on his end unless i was specifically built to survive it...thus having little else to use.
4 5man Marines with 2 of them having Lascannons scattered across the field for objectives, two Stormravens flying in with marines stuffed inside, 3 droppods 1 of which had Tactical squads, a Priest, and some random bolters - 1 with a Dreadnaught with heavy flamer and ... lots of other toys i forget the name of - and the third was empty.

Literally the only reason the Necron player survived...for the most part...was because the MEQs attacked Wraiths which have a 3+ invul with most of their attacks (after plastering a chariot and 4 scarabs). I just thought.......aside from a sheer bulk of numbers blocking droppod dumps...i literally couldnt face that because 5+ invul is selective for orks and rarely happen anyway, and he runs some kombi flamers in there in case theres terrain to deal with.
There would be nothing i could do against that aside from green tides and hope my 400000 dice wins first. Talk about stale gameplay. And he could just shoot over the boyz at the lootas i'd be protecting and probably take them out regardless.

My best friend plays orks and his favorite and most used unit are lootas. they wreak some havoc. He also gives all his boyz cybork bodies and whatever that armor is that gives them a better save than 6+. Numbers is an awesome tactic of orks because once they get in and tarpit the enemy shooty units its tough to compete with those numbers

I was watching 2 friends play (Blood angels vs Necrons) and saw something that i literally dont think i could survive even with bad rolls on his end unless i was specifically built to survive it...thus having little else to use.
4 5man Marines with 2 of them having Lascannons scattered across the field for objectives, two Stormravens flying in with marines stuffed inside, 3 droppods 1 of which had Tactical squads, a Priest, and some random bolters - 1 with a Dreadnaught with heavy flamer and ... lots of other toys i forget the name of - and the third was empty.

That list shouldn't be particularly scary for Orks. The Stormravens really don't threaten you unless they are kitted out with Hurricane Bolters (lots of points). Assault based MEQ should also lose the war of attrition. Nob Bikers rip that list hard as well.

If you know the pods are coming and deploy behind the Aegis, that list does little damage and then subsequently gets pounded.

While all these comments are helpful, i still feel like i must result to green tides to even attempt to win. Which is what im trying to avoid because theres no fancy stuff going on with it. Even at 1500pts, max boyz would eat about 800-900 of it if i ran them in BW + Trukks (since footslogging is horrible now) and that pretty much leaves me to 1 additional toy, which would be lootas and maybe a SAG.

The motto for Orks has always been "Boyz before toys." This is even more true in 6th edition. The game is generally won by taking objectives. In order to do that, you need troops. Luckily, the Orks have perhaps the point for point best troop in the game.

In addition, I don't see why you would say that "footslogging is horrible now." Tourneys have been dominated by lists that have a strong foot presence. In fact, it is harder to run a pure mech list now than running a footslogging or hybrid list. The reason is that the Cron Air force hard counters Razor/transport spam.

Orks are one of the best codices in the game now. They are one of the true "stand alone" dexes that don't need allies. Perhaps you are looking for something different in terms of gameplay. If you want to load up on toys, Orks probably aren't the best.

Vineheart01 wrote:

Cant bubble wrap with grots because you can see over them and they cut back on my boyz numbers too.

Vineheart01 wrote:

And he could just shoot over the boyz at the lootas i'd be protecting and probably take them out regardless.

My memory of the cover rules is a bit fuzzy right now, but if I remember correctly you get cover just by virtue of a unit shooting "through" another one. They can't "shoot over" unless they are physically at a higher elevation (up in a ruined building, top of a hill, etc.) or the weapon in question is indirect-fire capable (i.e. Hive Guard).

If you are having trouble with getting shot off the board too early (which it sounds like you are), you might want to see about getting/making some Blocks Line of Sight terrain pieces or maybe acquiring a Kustom Force Field Mek.

Vineheart01 wrote:

While all these comments are helpful, i still feel like i must result to green tides to even attempt to win. Which is what im trying to avoid because theres no fancy stuff going on with it. Even at 1500pts, max boyz would eat about 800-900 of it if i ran them in BW + Trukks (since footslogging is horrible now) and that pretty much leaves me to 1 additional toy, which would be lootas and maybe a SAG.

I'm not getting the same impression. Most of the suggestions have been to add more bodies/hulls to make for better saturation, not go for a full blown green tide of 120-180 boys.

For instance, here's your the list from before:


And here is a somewhat heavy modification created based on your list of models:


Now the key thing changed between the two is that the second list presents nothing but fast AV10 hulls for your opponent initially, which makes for better target saturation. The Dakka Jets also offer a bit more redundancy than the ADL and Deffkoptas in that they present 3 different targets that require attention and can do the roles of both while also adding to the overall army saturation. Main thing is you want to have everything require the same sort of weaponry to deal with while presenting roughly equal threat, so that the enemy will have to make hard decisions in terms of what to shoot at a given turn with their limited number of shots (this is the hallmark of the green tide-style list you keep bringing up, the enemy only has so much in the way of anti-infantry weaponry that they can use a turn and high strength anti-vehicle guns have no real viable targets).

As for the issue with limited toys, that might just be due to the point value you and your opponents are at. I myself tend to spend most of my points on troops and essential function units and not much in the way of "toys" until 1700/1850 or so. Might not hurt to ask if you can try a few higher point games and see if it helps your enjoyment at all.

Vineheart01 wrote:

Which goes back to one of my original gripes - every damn army has some instant transport for something useful...orks dont even have a distraction (kommandos 6+ armor ooo wow)

What about Boss Zagstruk with his Storm Boyz? They are one of the few units in the entire game that can assault after deep striking and Zagstruk gets to swing an AP2 power klaw at initiative while doing so to boot.

Vineheart01 wrote:
Finally figured out where people were getting that 2+ save from with ADLs (+2 behind defense line going to ground, not +1) lol im always like WTF its a 4+ that makes it a 3+. Somethin else ive been doin wrong apparently .

Ghaz is cool n all but hes ~100pts more expensive than a meganob warboss and i dont quite see him painful enough to shuck that many points out.

While all these comments are helpful, i still feel like i must result to green tides to even attempt to win. Which is what im trying to avoid because theres no fancy stuff going on with it. Even at 1500pts, max boyz would eat about 800-900 of it if i ran them in BW + Trukks (since footslogging is horrible now) and that pretty much leaves me to 1 additional toy, which would be lootas and maybe a SAG.
However, against any army with deepstriking units that have templates or a LOT of dakka, this list is krumped instantly. Which i commonly face. Cant bubble wrap with grots because you can see over them and they cut back on my boyz numbers too.
Which goes back to one of my original gripes - every damn army has some instant transport for something useful...orks dont even have a distraction (kommandos 6+ armor ooo wow)

I was watching 2 friends play (Blood angels vs Necrons) and saw something that i literally dont think i could survive even with bad rolls on his end unless i was specifically built to survive it...thus having little else to use.
4 5man Marines with 2 of them having Lascannons scattered across the field for objectives, two Stormravens flying in with marines stuffed inside, 3 droppods 1 of which had Tactical squads, a Priest, and some random bolters - 1 with a Dreadnaught with heavy flamer and ... lots of other toys i forget the name of - and the third was empty.

Literally the only reason the Necron player survived...for the most part...was because the MEQs attacked Wraiths which have a 3+ invul with most of their attacks (after plastering a chariot and 4 scarabs). I just thought.......aside from a sheer bulk of numbers blocking droppod dumps...i literally couldnt face that because 5+ invul is selective for orks and rarely happen anyway, and he runs some kombi flamers in there in case theres terrain to deal with.
There would be nothing i could do against that aside from green tides and hope my 400000 dice wins first. Talk about stale gameplay. And he could just shoot over the boyz at the lootas i'd be protecting and probably take them out regardless.

Yea, hes 125pts over a megaboss with no other upgrades. That means you can have 2 megabosses for less then 1 Ghaz........hes very much not worth it.


Also, the only time you can shoot OVER a unit of boyz or grots, is if the unit being shot at, is on a building or a hill, basically anything that literally puts them OVER the unit being shot through/past.

Hey- I'm not an Ork player. And sorry if this is a little off topic but-

Can someone walk through how a truck can move 25" with RPJ on it? (Or have the orks move 25" with it). My younger brother is also struggling with Orks, but I don't know if he's playing his truck movement right. 25" move seems like it would be a game changer!

You start with a 13" move, 6" disembark, then are you guys using 6" average for assault roll? Can Orks assault after going cruising speed?

Thx

In the movement phase the truck moves 12 inches plus one inch for the red paint job. Because its a fast vehicle it can move another 12 inches in the shooting phase. Total distance is 25 inches.

Ohhh yikes. damn ok i'm still new to 6th. That's outrageous. So any fast vehicles can move another 12" in the shooting phase? I need to read me up some BRB.

Fast skimmers can move 18 inches - 30 inch total movement.

Hey I'm sorry to hear that your having so many issues with your Orks... I've been playing my Orks shortly after 6th dropped and I haven't lost a single game. I tossed up some video battle reports of my games if your interested in checking them out.

I noticed you said that foot slogging is useless now, but hats what I have been doing and quite frankly is amazing. I run 5 squads of 30 boyz, a couple Burma wagons, a MANZ wagon with a Warboss and KFF as well as 2 dakka jets... It's been truly nasty... Have fun watching your opponent kill 150 boyz while dealing with 3 av 14 targets that can cause a ton of pain if they reach the lines... And If they don't... Well then you have your 150 boyz to answer any problems.

I knew when i got orks that the motto was "boyz before toyz" but i just never expected it to be to THIS extent lol.

I refuse to give them up because i have easily $1500+ in models, most of which are assembled and a decent chunk painted. Also i am hoping for a new codex so bad...

Zagstruck....i thought he wasnt allowed to assault as well? Like, i thought EVERYTHING got denied assault from reserves or deepstrike in 6th. I know thats why kommandos disappeared heh atleast in 5th they could go at your rear and assault instantly taking something important out then dying vs just dying.

@Strat - that list looks pretty good to me except i dont see why i'd have grotsnik in that one. To me, having him and a meganob boss with meganobs is a waste because he now forces both a warboss and meganobs to go crazy bloodthirsty-like. Actually he wouldnt fit since you suggested a trukk (5x2=10 +2=12, mega armor counts as 2 units in transports) so he'd just be roaming on foot. Now that sounds even more like a waste lol.
However, i could see a SAG in his place and use excess points to get the extra supa shoota on the dakkajets. I think SAG meks were 95pts without anything but a SAG...aint got my codex handy atm to double check. Or for that matter just take a KFF for added protection on my trukk rush.
Also the comment about adding more units, i dont have the points to add more of anything but boyz thats why im saying it feels like "green tide it or nothing"

EDIT: Oh and for the whole over the grot thing, to my knowledge if you can see my physical body you can shoot over units. I will get a 5+ cover, but you can still do it. I'd rather risk a 5+ cover to take out lootas than waste my shots on a bunch of grots. The benefit of grots for ADLs is also their curse for bubblewraps - short little buggers...

Also i finally got to use Boarding planks for once...thats hilarious when attacking squishy vehicles. Went against an Eldar/Dark Eldar allies list and my BW just drove around popping AV10s with boarding plank attacks. Sadly his psycher bikes whatever they were called were unstoppable with the list i posted.

EDIT2: Also, sorry bout the ragyness of my last posts. Bit heated. I am a little too tired right now to be upset though so im nice and caaaaallm....lol...

boss zagstruk actually has a rule that allows you to assault after deepstriking in exchange for d3 stormboyz being removed as crash landing casualties to answer your one question.

Based off the various types of armys you play I would suggest running a list that I have had great success with:

HQ

wazdakka

Troops

5×6 warbikers w/ nob w/ pk and bp

15 grots w/ runtherd

Elites

7 lootas

8 lootas

Fast attack

deffkopta w/ TL rokkit launcha

deffkopta w/ TL rokkit launcha

you could have the deffkoptas as one squad with wazdakka outflank or just keep them seperate or ditch them altogether for more lootas. Grots are kept in reserve for rear objective camping. Nob bikers are good, but are super exspensive and with the reputation they have since 6ed they will be a high target priority. So far I really like mass warbiker squads cause every bike has a TL big shoota and every squad has a pk that can be delivered to the enemy really fast or you can just avoid the opponent and shoot them to death. Plus their T5 and always have a 4+ cover save

Not a bad idea, i dont have even remotely that many bikes but its just friendly gaming so i can proxy to see if i like it.
Is that two single deffkopta groups? I tried that for awhile but i started to not like it because in the event of each unit or FA unit counts as a point if killed thats REALLY easy points for the enemy if they get caught by something with mad range or deepstrike sneakings. 4+ armor goes away fast, 5+ junk is pretty low.

Another trick you can do with bubble wrap units is controlling where deep strikes can come in and blocking units from coming into effective weapon ranges. This has gotten more interesting with pre measuring.

Anyway try to use the edge of your aegis, backfield terrain and any bubble wrap you have around (if you've decided to be that scared of pods or just want some chaff to GTG and score backfield) to either get any podded marines to have to shoot you through the aegis or to have to land and disembark a decent distance away from your lootas.

My friends used to do this a lot to keep units out of melta range of his expensive short ranged vehicles. It's a little more tricky to manipulate double tap range, but you have a lot of control over the board in your end and tend to feel more safe mucking around backfield so try your best to limit their options.

I'm also kinda totes not convinced that drop pop combat squads and lists full of plinker 1of lascannons and storm ravens are giving buggie orks so much trouble! I can see jumpers maybe being frustrating to deal with if they had FNP well spread out and had some support from ML devastators. I know 3+ saves and a lot of attacks that are mobile enough to pick their battles aren't what orks like to play against, but I really expect orks to swamp combat squads that aren't adequately supported despite the new disorganized charges rules.

i havnt faced that list i just witnessed a necron survive solely on 3+ invuls, which orks dont have at all even HQ wise (Ghaz WAAAGH still cant be turn 1).

I do know i have one major flaw in my tactics, i tend to zoom ahead since im mostly pklaws. I still use terrain if i can, but i usually dont hang back and wait a turn or so because most of time im facing weapons that fire at me anyway. For instance the armor barricade of IG Leman Russes and other long range weapons (lacking names here...). Holding back a turn against that would be dumb cuz he shoots across the board anyway and most ignore line of sight.

Right now im working on my dakkajets since im one of those peopel where when i start working on a project i MUST finish it asap, and since theyre a big part of most ork lists theyre kinda important to get done. Think i'll get to work at finishing my boyz next, since im fielding headless support-armless shooty boyz for about 1/3 of the boyz i use lol (easier to paint).

And yea i'd have to agree about the swamping the tactics. Even if i lose furious charge cuz i hit both groups, im still sending 50+ boyz at 10 dudes lol. But what would i do about the stormravens? 20-25 lootas split into 3 groups would hit it hard yea but odds of me taking out both before they cause an issue...sounds risky..theyre AV13 in the front arent they? Or am i horribly mistaken lol

flaming tadpole wrote:
boss zagstruk actually has a rule that allows you to assault after deepstriking in exchange for d3 stormboyz being removed as crash landing casualties to answer your one question.

Based off the various types of armys you play I would suggest running a list that I have had great success with:

HQ

wazdakka

Troops

5×6 warbikers w/ nob w/ pk and bp

15 grots w/ runtherd

Elites

7 lootas

8 lootas

Fast attack

deffkopta w/ TL rokkit launcha

deffkopta w/ TL rokkit launcha

you could have the deffkoptas as one squad with wazdakka outflank or just keep them seperate or ditch them altogether for more lootas. Grots are kept in reserve for rear objective camping. Nob bikers are good, but are super exspensive and with the reputation they have since 6ed they will be a high target priority. So far I really like mass warbiker squads cause every bike has a TL big shoota and every squad has a pk that can be delivered to the enemy really fast or you can just avoid the opponent and shoot them to death. Plus their T5 and always have a 4+ cover save

This is OK, but the biggest problem is this list would fold incredibly fast in combat. Specially to any army that can spam power weapons, which is every single Imperial or Eldar type force out there. But it would be pretty damn fast and all those bigshootas would do some nice damage thats for sure.

 kaiservonhugal wrote:
In the movement phase the truck moves 12 inches plus one inch for the red paint job. Because its a fast vehicle it can move another 12 inches in the shooting phase. Total distance is 25 inches.

They cant disenbark that turn though

Vineheart01 wrote:
that list looks pretty good to me except i dont see why i'd have grotsnik in that one.

When I put the thing together, I was trying to keep the same general gameplan as the first list you presented but with more target saturation, so I left the super MANz unit intact (I assumed you had Grotsnik in the unit for FNP and Fearless - since it now confers to the entire unit if one model has the rule) and just downgraded their transport to add more AV10 saturation (didn't think to check if MANz used up more transport space... ). Thanks kindly for the compliment though, glad you liked it!

Now wiithout needing Grotsnik and his MANz and in keeping with the thoughts you gave, perhaps this might be better?


The Meks and their runts both go in the Grot unit and huddle behind the ADL (ideally in such a way as to let them hold an objective) while everything else operates as prior. I swapped the Quad Gun for com. array, since it lets you have more control over your Dakka Jets and I didn't have quite enough points left for a quad after squeezing in everything else... I wasn't sure what to do with the very last handful of points, so I just put RPJ on the Dakka Jets, could probably use those elsewhere.

I would suggest shoota boyz. A mob of 30 with 3 big shootas and NO nob is 185 points. X 6 = 1110 points.

That is 180 bodies.

Something I have noticed is many Ork players do not realize how insanely good Big Gunz are. 3 cannons are only 60 points. The cannon is T7, 2 wounds and Armor 3. The cannon is the Orkz toughest unit and makes the gretchin crew T7 to gun fire! (sadly T2 to assault). The cannon is range 36, str 8 with ap3. Or frag away. Basically a BS 3 missile launcher.

3 x 3 cannons = 180.

So 6X30 Shoota boys = 1110
3 x 3 cannons = 180.
Add in Big MeK with KFF = 85
Leaves you 125 points for whatever.
Add in an Aegis or drop a group of boys and add in 3 x 5 lootas, whatever your flavor.

at 1500 points trying to kill off almost 200 models could be a challenge.


I would recommend a mix of lootas and kannons backed by boys. If the lootas are behind an aegis line they are hard to kill. The mass of boys provide bubble wrap.

Exalbaru wrote:

 kaiservonhugal wrote:
In the movement phase the truck moves 12 inches plus one inch for the red paint job. Because its a fast vehicle it can move another 12 inches in the shooting phase. Total distance is 25 inches.

They cant disembark that turn though

And? Youre 24-25 inches up, with the typical deployment zone being 12 inches, you WILL be at that line if possible. So really, you start 12 inches away from a 48inch table width. Then move 12-13 inches, then flatout another 12. So ince you moved 24 inches and started 12 inches up, your threat range is really 36inches in 1 movement phase. So even if your opponent wrecks or pops the trukks, you ramshackle and have a decent chance of good things happening for you. If not, then you move 6 inches on turn 2, disembark and charge. Youve more then covered the table by turn 2

The nice thing about storm ravens is that they don't really kill cheap things too effectively and they don't score or anything.

I guess they could be carrying something that scores, or a blender dread... that would be something to worry about, but then he's got some expensive ass investment there and hopefully you can either make it a poor investment by not letting it do enough damage over it's turns to be effective or to just swamp it.

3++ is neat, but I don't know why you are having such problems with wraiths... when I use them I don't think of them as a deathstar or a hammer unit unless they come with a destroyer. I tend to think of them as competent but mainly survivable grabber/harrier units. think of them as 12 assault marines that your power claw wont quite work against and you'll see that the 3++ and rending and initiative modifier are kinda a waste vs a billion boyz. Like 45 points for what comes down to about the survivability of 2 marines isn't amazing. Wraiths are kinda like wyches, they make other enemies investments in killing power kinda wasteful and are great at killing small isolated units or tying up ones you want to stay back or eventually hit with a hammer.

I guess I'd want to be dedicating 2/3 groups of units per target if I were you. I guess that can be hard to coordinate with buggies blowing up around you but it tends to be doable from my experience.

He is running them with a destroyer, forgot to mention that.

@Strat
Cut off 4 Grots, since the whole group gets instapasted by most things that gets them behind that ADL anyway, take off RPJ on the jets and put big shootas in each trukk. A big shoota is a powerful boost for 5pts, 1 per 10 orks. Aside from that...looks promising...
Doesnt comm relay only effect reserves? Would improve chances to get the dang things in the game though, which is important. 3 jets WAAAGH'ing is better than 1 at a time not WAAAGH'ing cuz im tryin to get all 3 lol.

My issue with Big Gunz is with the exception of the Lobba their range stinks. We play on a 5by6 board, usually having plenty of tall terrain too. 36' is the same reason i dislike looted wagons, by the time they can fire theyre so close they can be picked off by a random big weapn i didnt see coming.
How can i not see a big weapon coming? Easy, i dont know other races too well to spot them and MEQs have a bad habit of having a very nasty gun in pistol-appearance.

Reviving post:

Just pushed my hatred for orks even further today. Played 2 games against Nids at 1500pts, both games i felt like i was just waiting for the game to end.

First game:


Second game


Like what the feth? I contributed my first dozen or so loses to me being a newb, but now that i know something of the game i realize its not me its the game. Literally every damn race has something that by default walks over orks that is easy to apply to the game. And it seems like every single answer to these counters is numbers. Well numbers dont mean jack if whats killing you is impossible for you to hurt with 80% of your army.

Not even having fun anymore. I cant even make it to turn 5. Everything either instapastes me, backstabs my elites, shoots as much if not more dakka than me on better BS, or i straight up cant touch as it walks over me. I love this game and i especially love the crafting/painting of your army (hence why i picked orks as they look the coolest) but whats the point in playing if its damn near impossible to even have a fighting chance let alone win? I dont ask to win every game, i ask for a decent match and an occasional win.

How the hell do you people win against a remotely competent opponent?

If you're losing as bad as you say, I'm starting to think your opponent is cheating you. Take some time to look thru some codices perhaps

CYBORK wrote:
If you're losing as bad as you say, I'm starting to think your opponent is cheating you. Take some time to look thru some codices perhaps

It is possible, depends on how well you know him. I've had people try to slip in extra points, claim rules that didnt exist (i was playing SW and this guy i met at FLGS and didnt know I played DE too which is what he had and claimed all his wyches had wychknives which is fleshbane and armourbane) If something feels fishy I'd politly ask to see the codex

The problem h orks is getting caught up in the shiny bits and dodads... Just make it real simple, are you better off taking a Nob with a PK and boss pole or 8 boyz with shootas? Are you better off taking a MANZ or 7 boyz? In most cases, unless you have an absolute need for something, you are always better off with boyz.

Now the problem with boyz is they are unwieldy when en masse and a real pain time-wise to go with a pure green tide.

I have found 3 trukks and 3 battlewagons (at 1500-1850) with a KFF mek gives you the best combination of speed and ability to charge - at worst - on turn 2.

Yes trukk boyz are a tad small but hit him with 2 or 3 trukk boy mobz and he won't feel so healthy. 20 man boyz mobz coming out of wagons seems to be a healthy number to hit a target on its own but it is obviously stronger when it hits enmasse.

The decision when doing a trukk rush army is do you go with burna boyz or lootas. Personnally I like lootas and perhaps a grot unit to cover it and provide a back area objective holder. Dakka jets could substitute for this.

BTW when I am talking nobz, I am talking nob units or MANZ units... you always want the nob in a unit of boyz.

Vineheart01 wrote:
Like what the feth? I contributed my first dozen or so loses to me being a newb, but now that i know something of the game i realize its not me its the game. Literally every damn race has something that by default walks over orks that is easy to apply to the game.

How the hell do you people win against a remotely competent opponent?

If you think that orks are the problem try a different army.

I want to give you a heads up, if your playing against people who have been doing this for a long time, they might just be better players too. It takes a long time to become really good at this game. There are tips to becoming good at it, but their not army specific.

 labmouse42 wrote:

Vineheart01 wrote:
Like what the feth? I contributed my first dozen or so loses to me being a newb, but now that i know something of the game i realize its not me its the game. Literally every damn race has something that by default walks over orks that is easy to apply to the game.

How the hell do you people win against a remotely competent opponent?

If you think that orks are the problem try a different army.

I want to give you a heads up, if your playing against people who have been doing this for a long time, they might just be better players too. It takes a long time to become really good at this game. There are tips to becoming good at it, but their not army specific.

Indeed, it took me over a year before I won my first game(and that was playing twice a week)

You have to hang in there, and skill is a major part of it.

It is kinda a hard truth sometimes. There are several components to winning games, the army, the list, and the player.

You can't really blame the army, Orks are pretty good right now. Sure there are some races that are having some trouble, but not Orks. They have a good flier, great troops, great heavy hitters, and a big advantage in that Snap Shots don't hamper them as much as other armies (proportionally).

The list, people have been giving tons of help there, I won't go into it more. The strengths of Ork lists have been outlined. If you want to take a list style that isn't a strength of the Orks (lots of toys), then just be sure you know you're going in with a handicap.

Last is the player, which is also the more important aspect to winning games. For some people it can take a long time to become a good player. You can't expect to just make a good list, throw it down, start moving stuff around and automatically win half your games. Your opponents are also trying to make good lists, and put a lot of thought into keeping you from winning. You have to practice and put lots of thought into different situations and tactics. It sounds weird, but running through hypotheticals in your head helps you prepare for future games.

My recommendation... Start reading as many tactics articles as you can. Deployment. Movement. Gaining Cover. Ideal Assaulting. Shooting Priority. Playing the Mission. Adaptation and Decision making. There are a ton of aspects to the game that you need to be proficient at before blaming the army.