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These may fit here.

The War Eagle set you only get one. And they'll probably be smaller. But it's still ridiculous, yes.

 VanHammer wrote:
These may fit here.

Those are not US prices at all.

Finecast LotR Great eagle $41.25
Wood Elf War Eagle metal $17.25
High Elf Great Eagle metal $20
Hobbit Great Eagle plastics $50 for 2.

A supposedly much cheaper medium, yet costs 50% more than the current versions.

The ONLY reason I'll be buying the new plastic ones are because I can get them 30% off(which I can't with metal or finecast) and because plastic is the only medium that works for flying models.
So for me, it's $35 for 2 plastic eagles as opposed to roughly the same price for metal nightmares.

Well, I would say paying 660 dollars for an all ravenwing army with a pair of jets is flabber gasting but I have a 1850 Sisters army and have managed to pay a LOT more.....don't judge me.

 Aerethan wrote:


Those are not US prices at all.

Finecast LotR Great eagle $41.25
Wood Elf War Eagle metal $17.25
High Elf Great Eagle metal $20
Hobbit Great Eagle plastics $50 for 2.

A supposedly much cheaper medium, yet costs 50% more than the current versions.

The ONLY reason I'll be buying the new plastic ones are because I can get them 30% off(which I can't with metal or finecast) and because plastic is the only medium that works for flying models.
So for me, it's $35 for 2 plastic eagles as opposed to roughly the same price for metal nightmares.

I'm pretty sure those are the Canadian prices.

Anyway, from looking at the images I can see online, the LOTR eagles are significantly larger. The great eagle look like it's mounted on 40mm bases and it doesn't overhang the base all that much, the LOTR eagles are mounted on large flying bases, which from searching online are 60mm and have significantly more overhang. So, from what I can see, the new eagles are more than 50% larger than the old HE/WE great eagles.

The War Eagles, again, they look much smaller and are more slender (it's harder to say since GW don't picture them on their bases, but looking at images online they don't look as large as the new LOTR ones).

So the comparison is not apples to apples.

And frankly, these new eagles look awesome. Despite being a bird enthusiast, I've never bought any GW eagle models because they always look strange to me, poorly posed, poorly proportioned, whatever. These LOTR eagles look really good, the only problem I can pick with them is where the wings join to the body looks a bit too abrupt and isn't as seamless. These are the first GW eagles I actually want to buy, what difference does it make if the old ones are 30% cheaper if they looked so bad I didn't want to buy them in the first place?

It's a fallacy to compare prices to size.

The development costs will be roughly the same, the increased raw material cost will be a marginal increase, as plastic is far from expensive.

This level of price increase is totally unjustifiable on grounds of size of kit.

 azreal13 wrote:
It's a fallacy to compare prices to size.

The development costs will be roughly the same, the increased raw material cost will be a marginal increase, as plastic is far from expensive.

This level of price increase is totally unjustifiable on grounds of size of kit.

This^^

The extra cubic inch of plastic doesn't justify the price difference.

Other companies often lower prices on X when Y comes out that is better/newer.

Ignoring their place in the games(because GW says they make models first, and only write games to fit the models they want to make), the older eagles should have dropped in price now that newer ones are out that are bigger/better.

In all honesty(and taking their ability in game for WFB) $35 would have been a 100% reasonable price for the 2 eagles and at that price I'd have actually bought them at my local GW store to support my friend who runs it. Instead I'll order it online and GW will make much less than $35 on it.

The 2013 prices as well as the Hobbit set prices have pretty much made the decision for me to not take on any larger GW projects and to focus on finishing what I currently have. Any new army I start from here on will be second hand or wholesale direct prices. My little 30% off now seems mandatory for me in order to justify the expense in my budget.

$74 for a land raider, or $52 wholesale. That $75 DA flyer is a joke. I like the model, but there is no way I'd even spend $52 on it.

If this year brings new models for High and Dark Elves, I'll buy only what I absolutely need for my armies to function as I wrote the lists for, and that will only be plastic kits as I'm quite full on anything that would be in finecast.

 azreal13 wrote:
It's a fallacy to compare prices to size.

The development costs will be roughly the same, the increased raw material cost will be a marginal increase, as plastic is far from expensive.

This level of price increase is totally unjustifiable on grounds of size of kit.

Then every other mini company on the market is a crook as they seem to base prices of models based on model size.

How are people saying 'cheaper medium' then turning around and saying 'raw materials don't matter'? Which is it?

I would be interested to see how big these are and how many sprues these involve. If those are 50mm skimmer bases, then these guys have 6-8" wingspans.

 azreal13 wrote:
It's a fallacy to compare prices to size.

The development costs will be roughly the same, the increased raw material cost will be a marginal increase, as plastic is far from expensive.

This level of price increase is totally unjustifiable on grounds of size of kit.

Yes, but we still do Many companies charge more for physically larger models which are no more detailed.

There's lots of measures of what goes in to the price of a model. The size (these are larger, affecting the cost of moulds, the cost of handling per unit, etc), the development cost (these new eagles look like someone put a lot more effort in to them than the older ones), the manufacturing cost (no idea, since they have very different manufacturing processes), the percieved sales (from what I understand, plastic is better suited to mass production, so price may be somewhat dictated by how many they plan to sell), and points cost (like it or not, point costs affect pricing for various reasons).

I don't see the wood elf eagle to LOTR eagle as a price increase, I see it as a new model of a larger size and higher quality that happens to cost more. Of course I'm slightly biased by the fact I think the old Warhammer eagles look like arse compared to the new LOTR eagles.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I'll add to that and say that even if you don't think the 50% size increase warrants a 50% price increase (which I don't think it does), I also feel it looks 100% better and probably had 50-100% more development effort to create


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I'll add to that further and say I'm not remotely a fan of GW pricing, I just think it's a bit of pointless argument to complain about the eagles where the value is subjective and size/quality has increased. Stick to complaining about things like GW repackaging old models for far higher prices and releasing new models that are the same size/quality as their predecessors and cost significantly more, as those are the arguments that are more meaningful and less subjective.

Even though the LOTR eagles are 50% more than the old Fantasy eagles, I'm sure as hell not running out to buy the old ones to save myself a buck, much more likely I'm going to purchase a box or two of the new eagles to use in my WE army.

People actually use wood elves.......

Anyway yes the new eagles are overpriced. I'll give them that they look decent though.

I'll not comment on dark angels as i'll likely be banned ha ha

 VanHammer wrote:

Should have been "More skulls!" instead of Marines...

 Byte wrote:

 VanHammer wrote:

Should have been "More skulls!" instead of Marines...

I would say "More skulls" instead of more boobies myself. GW seems to have no aversion of adding marines...and skulls - but they seem to be terrified of girls. I think they believe they have cooties.

When compared to other luxury products its really not bad in the disposable income category.

I mean 10 years of wargaming costs less than a ring of metal with a worthless rock on it, with better resale value to.

 Leth wrote:
When compared to other luxury products its really not bad in the disposable income category.

I mean 10 years of wargaming costs less than a ring of metal with a worthless rock on it, with better resale value to.

average GW purchase is cheaper then my ball jointed doll hobby, but they do have a better resale value and better resin lol
but its several companies instead of one, and from what I observed so far, much more at the mercy of their customer base

 Leth wrote:
When compared to other luxury products its really not bad in the disposable income category.

I mean 10 years of wargaming costs less than a ring of metal with a worthless rock on it, with better resale value to.

Gold price in December 2002: $342.75/oz
Gold price in December 2012: $1655.50/oz

So a theoretical ring of gold from 10 years ago is worth about 5x as much now in just material. Couldn't find the data on diamonds, but I doubt they decreased a red cent, although perhaps didn't inflate as much as gold.

GW Regiment from 2002: $25/20 models(Empire Infantry)
GW Regiment in 2012: $25/10 models (Empire Infantry)

Resale value of 10 Empire infantry in fully used condition? Lucky to see 50%.

I can think of better things to invest in hobby wise that maintain value far better. Drums for 1. My set from 1997 retailed for $3500 just for the shells, and retail today for $3500. On ebay I might take a 20% hit at the dead most.

EDIT: In the last 10 years I've spent about $5,000 on GW products. If that had been all up front, and I'd bought gold instead I'd have $25,000 now instead of $3000 worth of toy soldiers. So let's not be dramatic about the math.

That being said, the markup on Jewelry is about 100%, so unless you got something marked way down it's value is not equal to it's raw materials.

I've been into the hobby for 2 years now. I was given an ork army of about 700 points.Now I have close to 5000. The group I'm with has support from each other. we trade, scan each others codexies and have a laptop with armybuilder and said codexices for everyone to use. So the hobby has been pretty ok to get into. That being said, starting a second army has been uphill. I rarelybuy from gb unless it helps with a whole army. I do BA and all I buy is death company for the extra bits every couple months. other than that I buy secondhand and convert.

dreamakuma wrote:
I've been into the hobby for 2 years now. I was given an ork army of about 700 points.Now I have close to 5000. The group I'm with has support from each other. we trade, scan each others codexies and have a laptop with armybuilder and said codexices for everyone to use. So the hobby has been pretty ok to get into. That being said, starting a second army has been uphill. I rarelybuy from gb unless it helps with a whole army. I do BA and all I buy is death company for the extra bits every couple months. other than that I buy secondhand and convert.

So your pirating...

A stand up work around.

I have been playing since 1990. I would not have the armies i have and figures if it were not for being cheaper back in the day... although prices to me in high school and such were almost the same as they are now for me if not more expensive (i have been thru a nasy child support/custody battles since 2006 finally stoped for now as of last year... but has severly crippled me financially as i am sure a lot of people are suffering from this economy... and on top of that i pay half my check in child support and daycare so income is very limited. I bought a couple things recently but second hand for most part due to having to have cashed in my retirement for part of my court battles and i wanted to enjoy a portion of my retirement.

That being said I have personally turned to finishing armies i have and building paperhammer models for tanks and such using bits and things to add detail to them where i can get them. Example i recently made a land raider crusader and went to GW site and paid 20 bucks for entire crusader bit pack. (FYI... GW is cheaper for the entire bit pack than the warstore as you pay almost as much for the assault cannon). So cardstock and 20 bucks some paint and time and bam save that way. I dont play tournaments and i actually cant find anyone to play with anymore so i guess i just do the hobby part now... although i would love to find someone with schedule to play games with .

I recently completed the entire 2nd CO. Blood Angels a lot of it was givien to me second hand, and i bought a lot second hand as well probably have around 150 out of pocket in whole army. I plan to make a thread with my mini's someday.

I do not buy things i want i make due now. I wish they would drop prices so new people would be able to get into hobby and not be turned off. It is possible though to enjoy it second hand though. A good place that i have found is Blue Table Painting from time to time has decent prices second hand stuff if not want to fight ebay bidding and such. Just beware of their pics and descriptions as sometimes its hard to see what you are really getting... i still have some bretonnians in simple green .

Honestly though - it is less about the cost and more about the inflation of that cost.

One hobby which was mentioned was motorsports - 10 years ago I could pick up a crate 5.7L 350HP engine for $3,195.95...today I can get that exact same engine for $3,999.95. That is a 25% increase in 10 years time - 3% below inflation.

However, if I were to have purchased a box of Chaos Space Marines for $24.99 or the new Necron Codex for $19.99. Now, that box of CSM costs $37.25 and the Codex goes for $33.00... The CSM went up by almost double inflation and the well over double inflation (65% versus 25%). Other things like character figures have doubled - or nearly so (the Emperor's Children Lord retailed for $8.99 in 2002 and is now $15).

Although you still might have value in the game - the manner in which the prices increase is rather insulting IMO.

Now - if we were just talking metal miniatures...then there would be some grounds for the increase. Tin has increased from 3900 per ton to over 23000 per ton in the last 10 years. Metal miniatures would need to increase in price because the cost of their raw materials has increased by 6 fold and those raw materials account for a rather high portion of the cost of the goods (as compared to plastic which is a tiny portion of the cost).

 Aerethan wrote:

 Leth wrote:
When compared to other luxury products its really not bad in the disposable income category.

I mean 10 years of wargaming costs less than a ring of metal with a worthless rock on it, with better resale value to.

Gold price in December 2002: $342.75/oz
Gold price in December 2012: $1655.50/oz

So a theoretical ring of gold from 10 years ago is worth about 5x as much now in just material. Couldn't find the data on diamonds, but I doubt they decreased a red cent, although perhaps didn't inflate as much as gold.

GW Regiment from 2002: $25/20 models(Empire Infantry)
GW Regiment in 2012: $25/10 models (Empire Infantry)

Resale value of 10 Empire infantry in fully used condition? Lucky to see 50%.

I can think of better things to invest in hobby wise that maintain value far better. Drums for 1. My set from 1997 retailed for $3500 just for the shells, and retail today for $3500. On ebay I might take a 20% hit at the dead most.

EDIT: In the last 10 years I've spent about $5,000 on GW products. If that had been all up front, and I'd bought gold instead I'd have $25,000 now instead of $3000 worth of toy soldiers. So let's not be dramatic about the math.

That being said, the markup on Jewelry is about 100%, so unless you got something marked way down it's value is not equal to it's raw materials.

Yea if you had bought straight gold that is one thing. You are talking about investments i was talking about luxury goods. resale of most rings you would be lucky to get 50 peecent of what you paid. Nice attempt to distort my arguement though. If you want to talk investments then that is a different can of worms. Warhammer is strictly in the disposable income territory

The Australian price for Sammael reminded me how much we pay over here for mounted special character Finecast models.

$83au.

Archaon was the first. I thought it was an anomoly. Like a WoC fee or something. It's not.

I'm at the table flipping stage.

I started in 2003. I bought a fantasy Orc vs Empire army box set, a box of basic paints, tools and undercoat spray. I dont remember the cost then but all of that now would just completely price me out of the hobby it would have then at thirteen.
It really seems to me that they have priced out younger customers at least, back then it seemed everyone was my age but I cant remember the last time I saw a teenager in GW.I really don't know how long a business can be sustainable without new customers and an increasingly bitter veteran community.

Ivan Issaccs wrote:
I started in 2003. I bought a fantasy Orc vs Empire army box set, a box of basic paints, tools and undercoat spray. I dont remember the cost then but all of that now would just completely price me out of the hobby it would have then at thirteen.
It really seems to me that they have priced out younger customers at least, back then it seemed everyone was my age but I cant remember the last time I saw a teenager in GW.I really don't know how long a business can be sustainable without new customers and an increasingly bitter veteran community.

I believe that box was either $60 or $80 at the time-pretty sure it was $80, as it came with a large softcover BRB, not a mini rulebook, as well as a standard chariot, cannon and command sprues. If so, that was about 45 in your currency. My computer doesn't have the option to put your symbol for currency, so 45 will have to do. Roughly. And yeah, that box set was an awesome deal: buy those two bigger models (at the time) and the rulebook (25+25+30) and you get all the orc warriors, arrer boyz, boss, captain, handgunners and spearmen FREE!

 Aerethan wrote:

 Leth wrote:
When compared to other luxury products its really not bad in the disposable income category.

I mean 10 years of wargaming costs less than a ring of metal with a worthless rock on it, with better resale value to.

Gold price in December 2002: $342.75/oz
Gold price in December 2012: $1655.50/oz

So a theoretical ring of gold from 10 years ago is worth about 5x as much now in just material. Couldn't find the data on diamonds, but I doubt they decreased a red cent, although perhaps didn't inflate as much as gold.

Now i understand, GW uses Gold in their molds to transfer the heat away.
It all makes sense now!

 Jehan-reznor wrote:

 Aerethan wrote:

 Leth wrote:
When compared to other luxury products its really not bad in the disposable income category.

I mean 10 years of wargaming costs less than a ring of metal with a worthless rock on it, with better resale value to.

Gold price in December 2002: $342.75/oz
Gold price in December 2012: $1655.50/oz

So a theoretical ring of gold from 10 years ago is worth about 5x as much now in just material. Couldn't find the data on diamonds, but I doubt they decreased a red cent, although perhaps didn't inflate as much as gold.

Now i understand, GW uses Gold in their molds to transfer the heat away.
It all makes sense now!

It would at least account for price rises. Cheaper medium but need higher prices? Put gold in the molds!

 Byte wrote:

dreamakuma wrote:
I've been into the hobby for 2 years now. I was given an ork army of about 700 points.Now I have close to 5000. The group I'm with has support from each other. we trade, scan each others codexies and have a laptop with armybuilder and said codexices for everyone to use. So the hobby has been pretty ok to get into. That being said, starting a second army has been uphill. I rarelybuy from gb unless it helps with a whole army. I do BA and all I buy is death company for the extra bits every couple months. other than that I buy secondhand and convert.

So your pirating...

A stand up work around.

"Pirating"? Just sounds like a club sharing rulebooks to me, except they're scanned and loaded into a single laptop, which I gather is done more for the sake of convenience since all the books were purchased legally beforehand.

 -Loki- wrote:
The Australian price for Sammael reminded me how much we pay over here for mounted special character Finecast models.

$83au.

Archaon was the first. I thought it was an anomoly. Like a WoC fee or something. It's not.

I'm at the table flipping stage.

I'd have been out the door long ago if I was an Aussie.

i was a while back ( 4-5th ed 40k) but have found that there are things either cheaper (for my armies, certain units) or i "want" to buy something new-ish to add to army/s. though i prob won't buy as much, i've invested close to 16-17 years so it'd be pointless just quitting over "another" price rise

 KalashnikovMarine wrote:

 -Loki- wrote:
The Australian price for Sammael reminded me how much we pay over here for mounted special character Finecast models.

$83au.

Archaon was the first. I thought it was an anomoly. Like a WoC fee or something. It's not.

I'm at the table flipping stage.

I'd have been out the door long ago if I was an Aussie.

I'm not at the quitting stage - I can buy stuff from the US if it gets too bad here. But more the 'fething really?' stage. I can bear $83au for a Carnifex. It's a large, multipart kit with gak tons of options. I can bear $96au for the Tervigon. It's over twice the size of the Carnifex, with gak tons of options making two units.

$83au for a single infantry model, I just don't see why. Like, at all. Even considering them as collectibles, special characters, on a horse/bike, whatever. It's just...

I can't even think of a word for it.

 Sidstyler wrote:

 Byte wrote:

dreamakuma wrote:
I've been into the hobby for 2 years now. I was given an ork army of about 700 points.Now I have close to 5000. The group I'm with has support from each other. we trade, scan each others codexies and have a laptop with armybuilder and said codexices for everyone to use. So the hobby has been pretty ok to get into. That being said, starting a second army has been uphill. I rarelybuy from gb unless it helps with a whole army. I do BA and all I buy is death company for the extra bits every couple months. other than that I buy secondhand and convert.

So your pirating...

A stand up work around.

"Pirating"? Just sounds like a club sharing rulebooks to me, except they're scanned and loaded into a single laptop, which I gather is done more for the sake of convenience since all the books were purchased legally beforehand.

I'd argue it is within Fair Use. They are making a single digital backup of a physical medium that they purchased legitimately and are then taking turns using it. No different there than loaning someone the actual book, provided there are not more copies made than the single backup. Now if each person took a copy, it would be piracy.