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Yes let us insult the fellow... Resale value is important to people. Being compassionate might be welcome. A snide remark only does ill service to you.

I agree with one point of the above post the quality is horrible. The minis should be cheaper considering the quality. All of the recent minis I got are terribly off. No one checks the models. You think for the price they might.

It's a microcosm of what I'm seeing... So many will stop at no length to justify their rage against GW's recent prices. When you try and talk them down from the ledge they come up with more BS.

 Leech wrote:
I hope this isn't too far off-topic I've found that in GW Belfast we cannot play or paint in the stores anymore. The only people allowed are noobs getting lessons. That to me has alienated a large number of loyal customers. I've heard this policy is in all stores not just Belfast.

This would as far as I see turn everybody towards playing in other clubs and buying non-GW products. Hasd anybody else encountered this change of policy or is there a thread dedicated to it.

I'm in Brooklyn, NY, and the GW in Manhattan still allows people to play and paint in the store. I guess tehy're ignoring this policy since it's only two guys in the store ATM, and usually there's only one in there at a time. Last week I went in there and they were talking about the worst and best ways to die.

In regards to GW pricing, I haven't been bought out yet. I used to run Tyranids, starting with the Battle for Macragge set. Then I stopped for 4 years because I couldn't paint, and started getting back in when Space Marine came out in 2011. Now I run Orks, and 300 USD isn't too expensive for 1500 points of Orks when compared to 'nids these days. Unless they're cheaper points-wise nowadays, I still have the 4th ed. 'nid codex and 5th ed rulebook.

The only things I feel ARE out priced are the codices and the rulebook. The 5th ed. one was only 50 bucks, and that was for 300 pages of rules and fluff. Now I have to pay that for 20 pages of rules and 80 pages of fluff, along with a $75 book of Wardian SM glory? Take me to eBay, please!

 Nakor The BlueRider wrote:
GW makes there products in the UK (I think they do for the USA but idk) and as such have more obligations and higher costs.

Not that they haven't tried. Their books are likely printed in China (as are many other books), they moved Forgeworld out there for a bit (which is supposedly how moulds have ended up in the hands of recasters making the counterfeit ones as good as the real thing) and they produced that plastic scenery stuff that had to be recalled when the quality barely resembled that originally advertised.

Moving a lot more production to China has to be a cost saving exercise somewhere down the line, there's only so much tightening they can do through staff numbers.

 MisterMoon wrote:
I haven't noticed this drop out myself. I do read a lot of folks online going bonkers, but that's more of a reflection of the round the clock opinion cyclone that is the Internet, than reality. I do hear them gripe at the store, and then they march out with the newest army a day later because they had to have it.

I'm not disputing the validity of your experience, but YMMV - and vary widely. In many parts of Toronto, outside the GW outlets, 40k is on life support and Fantasy hasn't shown signs of life in years. This is in a metro area of over 3 million people. Back in the heyday of 40k (late 90's, early 2000's), you could find pick up games, pretty much any night, at any GW or FLGS. There were crazy wait lists on vet nights... Nowadays, I see empty tables on weekends at the local flagship BUNKER store. Again. YMMV, but IMHO, everything is NOT well with GW in my market.

 CaptainGrey wrote:

SouthTexanFrymire wrote:
I think GW should follow the Blizzard model and start making good games

>Company that made Starcraft and WoW
>Good Games

Strong troll post.

Diablo 1 and 2 was a massive success and is still played today.
Warcraft 1-3 were all successfull and at least 3 is still played today.
Starcraft was a massive hit and THE RTS for a long time.
WoW completely dominated the MMO market for years and is still top dog in NA and Europe.

Diablo 3, Starcraft 2, and post WotLK WoW have been considered lackluster so you could say that Blizzard is losing its touch, but to say that they haven't made commercially successful, critically acclaimed games that are ADORED by fans is a flat out lie.

SC 2 is mighty fine

The point I was trying to make is alot of people are upset they can't buy a model, mess with and then later resell it for near retail. I don't personally mind it because right now I am priced out of buying GW stuff 'new'. But that said I do remember when Model A costed 35, built, painted, and a little abuse would sell for 15-20, now Model A is 50, but same paint job, and abuse it's still valued at 15-20 in that state. In other words price 'investment' is not meeting a price 'return' and that equals upset people.

I won a Manticore, unassembled, on ebay for 25 bucks, but the guy backed out and said his stock 'disappeared' and backed out. Of course that's a lie, he just wasn't about to part with that Manticore at that price. Despite not having a reserve.

 KingmanHighborn wrote:
The point I was trying to make is alot of people are upset they can't buy a model, mess with and then later resell it for near retail. I don't personally mind it because right now I am priced out of buying GW stuff 'new'. But that said I do remember when Model A costed 35, built, painted, and a little abuse would sell for 15-20, now Model A is 50, but same paint job, and abuse it's still valued at 15-20 in that state. In other words price 'investment' is not meeting a price 'return' and that equals upset people.

I won a Manticore, unassembled, on ebay for 25 bucks, but the guy backed out and said his stock 'disappeared' and backed out. Of course that's a lie, he just wasn't about to part with that Manticore at that price. Despite not having a reserve.

The point me and others were making is that there is virtually nothing you can buy, and play with and sell it for or at near retail. That's the case now with minis, and has always been the case. I'm sure others are also arguing your "prices." A well painted miniature can go for retail, and a few times over retail if done well enough. A crappy paint job, bad filing, mold lines etc is always going to drive down what someone's willing to pay.

Also keep in mind how much easier it is to sell your minis with the advent of the internet and ebay, this naturally drives down price. I can sell my whole collection in a few days, where before I'd be lucky to unload half of it before it just got stuffed in the attic.

Stonie wrote:

These also are very valid points - I seem like I am pro GW and price increases etc but thats not the case its just there is a compelling arguement on the contrary to all the negative arguements. Although the points aboove are justified some could actually present an arguement to the contrary:

1. With in house manufacturing the business is responsible for all maintenance, upgrading, premises, insurance, staffing etc. So whereby the process may be streamlined it could be construed that this is inefficent from a cost perspective over using a third party manufacturer. Why do so many businesses outsource services?
2. With global business that in itself brings its own set of additional costs, tax's, printing, advertising, support, shipping etc. On the scale that GW operates this is considerable...

I am sure I could think of other viable points to counter the rest but I am beaten for now lol! I want to do some painting haha!

Shame you're done for now, let me counter those points.

1. However they retain absolute control and have instant access to their supplies, they are beholden to no outside company's inefficiencies or problems. As I understand it, the huge cost involve with plastics are the machines themselves. So, once they make that initial outlay and pay it back, they'll immediately start raking in profit instead of sending money out to a 3rd party.
2. If it wasn't profitable, they would not be setting up stores abroad and selling in those countries, they'd have just left it to the wholesalers to independent stores. Also, GW do not advertise, it has always been the position that they don't need to as they recruit via the stores.

My frank opinion is that they should just close all these stores, allow independent retailers to carry their line without restriction and recruit and advertise openly. Without gaming inside the stores, they cease to be self feeding and people will make early purchase then find they have nowhere to play and give up, especially here in the US where there is an expectation of playing space being provided in flgs and few clubs. That is, they should close them if they actually intended to contain the spiraling prices, but again, having watched the company fairly closely and having met a few in senior positions in the company in a prior job, I don't think they have any interest in the long game.

 MisterMoon wrote:

Yes let us insult the fellow... Resale value is important to people. Being compassionate might be welcome. A snide remark only does ill service to you.

I agree with one point of the above post the quality is horrible. The minis should be cheaper considering the quality. All of the recent minis I got are terribly off. No one checks the models. You think for the price they might.

It's a microcosm of what I'm seeing... So many will stop at no length to justify their rage against GW's recent prices. When you try and talk them down from the ledge they come up with more BS.

I love how the 'White Knights' (for want of a better term) try to put across the point that people who don't like GW must have something wrong with them or are mentally unbalanced. "Talk them down from the ledge"... "justify their rage"... (in that WD comparison thread) "give the ragequitters something to consider" etc.

I haven't bought a GW product (Citadel hobby stuff excepted) for nearly 10 years, and that was LotR. I haven't bought a 40k product in about 15 years. I have no rage towards GW. No anger, nothing. I simply dislike their rules, dislike the aesthetic of the majority of their range, and can't understand how they get away with charging 'premium' prices for their stuff. I am disappointed that more people locally aren't switching away from the company, because I play many systems but have trouble finding opponents for some of them.

Perhaps the people around you '' dislike their rules, dislike the aesthetic of the majority of their range''

I know I dislike Warmachines and Horde stuff.

Might get in Dust, might, but only because I have Death Korps Kriegsmen which are perfect little Germans.

I haven't bought a GW product (Citadel hobby stuff excepted) for nearly 10 years, and that was LotR. I haven't bought a 40k product in about 15 years. I have no rage towards GW. No anger, nothing. I simply dislike their rules, dislike the aesthetic of the majority of their range, and can't understand how they get away with charging 'premium' prices for their stuff. I am disappointed that more people locally aren't switching away from the company, because I play many systems but have trouble finding opponents for some of them.

Obviously I was speaking of active gamers of GW products. Or at least those who have by their own admission last played a game in this century. You're not on the ledge, you're playing a different game. You're happy with it, and that's fine. For an example, I for one think WMH is munchkined out nonsense, and you may like it, again that's fine. Yeah it's a table top game, but it's rules are nothing like GW products so it remains a very much apples and oranges discussion.

I'm not on a ledge, I still buy GW product at my local store with each paycheck, and I play on a semi regular basis. I DO believe that GW is getting out of hand with their prices. I've go friends that want to play, will look into getting a 1,000 point army together. and see a $400-$600 price tag and say "well it might be fun, but for that I can buy a LOT of Xbox games... I Play because, for the most part, I can field just about any configuration of the tyranid codex I wish. Lacking a few Monsters and a flight of gargoyles, I've got a full list. But that's after many years of collecting, and a lot of my collection came from buying out other players when they got tired of watching the prices go up.

 MeanGreenStompa wrote:

GW do not advertise, it has always been the position that they don't need to as they recruit via the stores.

My frank opinion is that they should just close all these stores, allow independent retailers to carry their line without restriction and recruit and advertise openly. Without gaming inside the stores, they cease to be self feeding and people will make early purchase then find they have nowhere to play and give up, especially here in the US where there is an expectation of playing space being provided in flgs and few clubs. That is, they should close them if they actually intended to contain the spiraling prices, but again, having watched the company fairly closely and having met a few in senior positions in the company in a prior job, I don't think they have any interest in the long game.

That is the biggest problem right there. They make a great product but no one knows about it. Please contrast this with TSR from the 70's through the 90's and even up to now. There is great use of print advertising campaigns for many of their products, you couldn't open a comic book or a movie magazine or even a kid's science magazine without seeing an ad for either D&D, Star Frontiers, or any of their other products - the same goes with MTG even now. Yes they even advertise upcoming products or new expansions for a while before they are released. TV ads are expensive so I am not advocating that, but they need to get a live feed into the geek conscienceness, the Euro model doesn't work here, the population is too far spread.

They also missed the boat with video game tie-ins. I consider the video games to be secondary to their main business. Considering that, why not put a Space Marine in with the SM game, or an IG in with the Winter Assault, Necron with Soulstorm, etc et al. Maybe even along with a "Would you like to know more?" flyer. The last video game to include a free promotional figure was Shadow of the Horned Rat. So we know they did it however did they do it right?

What does lack of promotion mean? Lack of brand awareness. Where does that lead? Lack of or reduction in sales. What does that mean? Rising prices to make up for lost sales. Where does that leave potential customers? Walking away.

I guess I started knowing I was going to spend a grand to get into the game and since I got into 40k just last year I'm fine with the pricing. Though the codex pricing is silly.

One thing that many people don't seem to notice is that prices for basic troops units have historically stayed about the same or in fact gone down, albeit with some exceptions. This ensures that the cost to build the core of an army doesn't actually go up very much. In fact, here are the prices for the Troops units for every 40k army (format is price (inflation-adjusted price)) compared between 2004 and now:

Assault Marines (for Blood Angels): 30 USD (36.41) USD for 5 in 2004 (Sergeants with special melee weapons bought separately at 8 (9.71) USD per), 33 USD for 5 now, Sergeant special melee options included. (inflation-adjusted price decrease)
Space Wolf Grey Hunters/Blood Claws: 30 (36.41) USD for 10 in 2004 (special weapon status unclear), 37.25 USD for 10 now with special weapons and special melee weapons included, plus tons of bitz (comparison unclear, probably increase or decrease depending on loadout)
Scouts with melee weapons: 20 (24.27) USD for 5 including Sergeant in 2004 (heavy bolter bought separately at 8 (9.71) USD per): 25 USD for 5 now, heavy bolter included (price increase or decrease depending on loadout)
Scouts with bolters or shotguns: 8 (9.71) USD for 2 in 2004 (heavy bolter bought separately at 8 (9.71) USD per), 25 USD for 5 now, heavy bolter included (inflation-adjusted price decrease)
Scouts with sniper rifles: 8 (9.71) USD for 2 in 2004 (Sergeant bought separately at 7 (8.50) per), 25 USD for 5 now, Sergeant and missile launcher option included (inflation-adjusted price decrease)
Tactical Marines: 30 (36.41) USD for 10 in 2004 (non-flamer special weapons bought separately at 10 (12.14) USD per), 37.25 USD for 10 now with non-flamer special weapons included (price increase or decrease depending on loadout)

Bloodletters of Khorne: 45 (54.61) USD for 10 in 2004, 29 USD for 10 now (price decrease)
Dæmonettes of Slaanesh: 40 (48.51) USD for 10 in 2004, 29 USD for 10 now (price decrease, but man I liked those old sculpts )
Horrors of Tzeentch: 40 (48.51) USD for 10 in 2004, 29 USD for 10 now (price decrease)
Plaguebearers of Nurgle: 40 (48.51) USD for 10 in 2004, 29 USD for 10 now (price decrease)

Chaos Space Marines: 25 (30.34) USD for 8 in 2004, 37.25 USD for 10 now (inflation-adjusted price decrease)

Dark Eldar Warriors: 30 (36.41) USD for 16 in 2004 (special/heavy weapons bought separately at 10 (12.14) USD for one blaster and one shredder or 10 (12.14) USD for two Dark Lances) 29 USD for 10 now with all options included (price increase or inflation-adjusted price decrease depending on loadout)
Dark Eldar Wyches: 30 (36.41) USD for 5 in 2004, 29 USD for 10 now (price decrease)

Eldar Dire Avengers: 30 (36.41) USD for 8 in 2004, 37.25 for 10 now (inflation-adjusted price decrease)
Eldar Guardians: 30 (36.41) USD for 16 in 2004 (heavy weapons platforms bought separately with two crew at 20 (24.27) USD per), 36.25 for 10 now with heavy weapons platform included (inflation-adjusted price decrease)

Grey Knights: 30 (36.41) USD for 5 in 2004 (special weapons bought separately at 10 (12.14) USD per), 33 USD for 5 now with special weapons included (price decrease)
Grey Knight Terminators: 55 (66.75) USD for 5 in 2004 (special weapons bought separately at 10 (12.14) USD per), 50 USD for 5 now with special weapons included (price decrease)

Imperial Guard plastics (Cadians, Catachans): 30 (36.41) USD for 20 in 2004, 29 USD for 10 now (price increase)
Imperial Guard metals (Valhallans, Steel Legion, Vostroyans, Tallarn, Mordians): 35 (42.48) USD for 10 in 2004, 35 USD for 10 now (inflation-adjusted price decrease)

Necron Immortals: 10 (12.14) USD for 1 in 2004, 33 USD for 5 now (price decrease)
Necron Warriors: 30 (36.41) USD for 12 in 2004, 36.25 USD for 12 now (inflation-adjusted price decrease)

Ork Boyz: 30 (36.41) USD for 16 in 2004, 29 USD for 10 now (price increase, though new kit has options for special weapons and Nob)

Sisters of Battle: 35 (42.48) USD for 10 in 2004, 64 USD for 10 now (price increase)

Tau Fire Warriors: 30 (36.41) USD for 12 in 2004, 36.25 USD for 12 now (inflation-adjusted price decrease)
Kroot Carnivores: 30 (36.41) USD for 16 in 2004, 36.25 USD for 16 now (inflation-adjusted price decrease)

Termagants: 30 (36.41) for 16 in 2004, 29 USD for 12 now (price increase)
Hormagaunts: 30 (36.41) for 16 in 2004, 29 USD for 12 now (price increase)
Genestealers: 30 (36.41) for 12 in 2004, 30 USD for 8 now (price increase)

So overall, we see that of the 28 basic Troops kits, 6 have gone up in price since 2004, 4 went up or down depending on what loadout you took, 10 went down in price when you account for inflation, and 8 outright decreased in price without accounting for inflation. In other words, 65% of Troops choices have gone down in price since 2004. Since this comprises 8 years of nominal "price increases," it's clear that GW does not hike prices on basic units as much as many people think.

I appreciate a lot of the opinions posted in the thread. Seems we have a good spread.

Unfortunately I'm unchanged in my opinion and strongly oppose gw.

The only point worth arguing is the comparison of price raises with inflation. Apples don't cost a nickel for a dozen anymore. Basically prices need to go up, it's the economic model that rules our society. What's imprant is how inflation compares to an individual product. In this case the price raises are significantly higher than inflation. Meaning the product cost a larger portion of your paycheck for the same product than it did in the past. Now there are a lot of excuses for this, like actually putting the weapon options in the kits, but the fact remains. By exceeding inflation gw IS pricing people out. Now combine the above inflation with less than stellar economic times worldwide, again it should be obvious that they are asking for a larger portion of net income for less product.

Simply put gw is asking for more and giving less than they did before, I don't claim to understand why, I can only guess.

My assumption I that ll corporations exist to make profit, there are a lot of ways of doing this, reducing costs, quality drops, expanding the target market, and raising prices. At the end of the day if they can make the same amount by raising prices they need to sell less. Good business bad for the hobby.

I think it really comes down to the goal for the product, do you guys remember seeing made from scratch tables at the gas. now its all this prefab plastic garbage and every table looks bland and the same endorsing another product of theirs. But their goal is to make money first a great product second. That is the fundamental problem, if I had to guess.

My post is on the product as a whole not specifically troops.

Yoshidwyn wrote:
I guess I started knowing I was going to spend a grand to get into the game and since I got into 40k just last year I'm fine with the pricing. Though the codex pricing is silly.

Well that's a fine thing but what gets many long-time players upset is that (1) we see similar products going for far more reasonable prices.. (2) It is harder to introduce most new players into a game with a high introductory cost. (3) The big lie "We are going to increase production in plastic and pass the savings on to you, our customers." nineteen years later I ask, where are the big savings? (4) Cutting boxes in half for high model count armies, and charging nearly or equal the full box price.

 Kingsley wrote:
One thing that many people don't seem to notice is that prices for basic troops units have historically stayed about the same or in fact gone down, albeit with some exceptions. This ensures that the cost to build the core of an army doesn't actually go up very much. In fact, here are the prices for the Troops units for every 40k army (format is price (inflation-adjusted price)) compared between 2004 and now:

*snip*

So overall, we see that of the 28 basic Troops kits, 6 have gone up in price since 2004, 4 went up or down depending on what loadout you took, 10 went down in price when you account for inflation, and 8 outright decreased in price without accounting for inflation. In other words, 65% of Troops choices have gone down in price since 2004. Since this comprises 8 years of nominal "price increases," it's clear that GW does not hike prices on basic units as much as many people think.

Alright, fine. Doesn't change the fact that I don't think 10 plastic models (especially questionable quality sculpts) are worth $70.


*Edit*
Or worse $85 for 6 snap fit cavalry. I've wanted rivendale knights since I got into the hobby, when I saw a sneak peak of them I though 'yea, I'm dusting off the old high elves and starting a cav focused army'. Then I saw the Hobbit release prices and though 'well I can get 1 box to paint'. Then I saw these at $15 more than the cavalry in the initial release and thought 'feth you GW.. feth you.'

 Kingsley wrote:
One thing that many people don't seem to notice is that prices for basic troops units have historically stayed about the same or in fact gone down, albeit with some exceptions. This ensures that the cost to build the core of an army doesn't actually go up very much. In fact, here are the prices for the Troops units for every 40k army (format is price (inflation-adjusted price)) compared between 2004 and now:

Assault Marines (for Blood Angels): 30 USD (36.41) USD for 5 in 2004 (Sergeants with special melee weapons bought separately at 8 (9.71) USD per), 33 USD for 5 now, Sergeant special melee options included. (inflation-adjusted price decrease)
Space Wolf Grey Hunters/Blood Claws: 30 (36.41) USD for 10 in 2004 (special weapon status unclear), 37.25 USD for 10 now with special weapons and special melee weapons included, plus tons of bitz (comparison unclear, probably increase or decrease depending on loadout)
Scouts with melee weapons: 20 (24.27) USD for 5 including Sergeant in 2004 (heavy bolter bought separately at 8 (9.71) USD per): 25 USD for 5 now, heavy bolter included (price increase or decrease depending on loadout)
Scouts with bolters or shotguns: 8 (9.71) USD for 2 in 2004 (heavy bolter bought separately at 8 (9.71) USD per), 25 USD for 5 now, heavy bolter included (inflation-adjusted price decrease)
Scouts with sniper rifles: 8 (9.71) USD for 2 in 2004 (Sergeant bought separately at 7 (8.50) per), 25 USD for 5 now, Sergeant and missile launcher option included (inflation-adjusted price decrease)
Tactical Marines: 30 (36.41) USD for 10 in 2004 (non-flamer special weapons bought separately at 10 (12.14) USD per), 37.25 USD for 10 now with non-flamer special weapons included (price increase or decrease depending on loadout)

Bloodletters of Khorne: 45 (54.61) USD for 10 in 2004, 29 USD for 10 now (price decrease)
Dæmonettes of Slaanesh: 40 (48.51) USD for 10 in 2004, 29 USD for 10 now (price decrease, but man I liked those old sculpts )
Horrors of Tzeentch: 40 (48.51) USD for 10 in 2004, 29 USD for 10 now (price decrease)
Plaguebearers of Nurgle: 40 (48.51) USD for 10 in 2004, 29 USD for 10 now (price decrease)

Chaos Space Marines: 25 (30.34) USD for 8 in 2004, 37.25 USD for 10 now (inflation-adjusted price decrease)

Dark Eldar Warriors: 30 (36.41) USD for 16 in 2004 (special/heavy weapons bought separately at 10 (12.14) USD for one blaster and one shredder or 10 (12.14) USD for two Dark Lances) 29 USD for 10 now with all options included (price increase or inflation-adjusted price decrease depending on loadout)
Dark Eldar Wyches: 30 (36.41) USD for 5 in 2004, 29 USD for 10 now (price decrease)

Eldar Dire Avengers: 30 (36.41) USD for 8 in 2004, 37.25 for 10 now (inflation-adjusted price decrease)
Eldar Guardians: 30 (36.41) USD for 16 in 2004 (heavy weapons platforms bought separately with two crew at 20 (24.27) USD per), 36.25 for 10 now with heavy weapons platform included (inflation-adjusted price decrease)

Grey Knights: 30 (36.41) USD for 5 in 2004 (special weapons bought separately at 10 (12.14) USD per), 33 USD for 5 now with special weapons included (price decrease)
Grey Knight Terminators: 55 (66.75) USD for 5 in 2004 (special weapons bought separately at 10 (12.14) USD per), 50 USD for 5 now with special weapons included (price decrease)

Imperial Guard plastics (Cadians, Catachans): 30 (36.41) USD for 20 in 2004, 29 USD for 10 now (price increase)
Imperial Guard metals (Valhallans, Steel Legion, Vostroyans, Tallarn, Mordians): 35 (42.48) USD for 10 in 2004, 35 USD for 10 now (inflation-adjusted price decrease)

Necron Immortals: 10 (12.14) USD for 1 in 2004, 33 USD for 5 now (price decrease)
Necron Warriors: 30 (36.41) USD for 12 in 2004, 36.25 USD for 12 now (inflation-adjusted price decrease)

Ork Boyz: 30 (36.41) USD for 16 in 2004, 29 USD for 10 now (price increase, though new kit has options for special weapons and Nob)

Sisters of Battle: 35 (42.48) USD for 10 in 2004, 64 USD for 10 now (price increase)

Tau Fire Warriors: 30 (36.41) USD for 12 in 2004, 36.25 USD for 12 now (inflation-adjusted price decrease)
Kroot Carnivores: 30 (36.41) USD for 16 in 2004, 36.25 USD for 16 now (inflation-adjusted price decrease)

Termagants: 30 (36.41) for 16 in 2004, 29 USD for 12 now (price increase)
Hormagaunts: 30 (36.41) for 16 in 2004, 29 USD for 12 now (price increase)
Genestealers: 30 (36.41) for 12 in 2004, 30 USD for 8 now (price increase)

So overall, we see that of the 28 basic Troops kits, 6 have gone up in price since 2004, 4 went up or down depending on what loadout you took, 10 went down in price when you account for inflation, and 8 outright decreased in price without accounting for inflation. In other words, 65% of Troops choices have gone down in price since 2004. Since this comprises 8 years of nominal "price increases," it's clear that GW does not hike prices on basic units as much as many people think.

This single post should be stickied.

 jonolikespie wrote:

 Kingsley wrote:
One thing that many people don't seem to notice is that prices for basic troops units have historically stayed about the same or in fact gone down, albeit with some exceptions. This ensures that the cost to build the core of an army doesn't actually go up very much. In fact, here are the prices for the Troops units for every 40k army (format is price (inflation-adjusted price)) compared between 2004 and now:

*snip*

So overall, we see that of the 28 basic Troops kits, 6 have gone up in price since 2004, 4 went up or down depending on what loadout you took, 10 went down in price when you account for inflation, and 8 outright decreased in price without accounting for inflation. In other words, 65% of Troops choices have gone down in price since 2004. Since this comprises 8 years of nominal "price increases," it's clear that GW does not hike prices on basic units as much as many people think.

Alright, fine. Doesn't change the fact that I don't think 10 plastic models (especially questionable quality sculpts) are worth $70.


*Edit*
Or worse $85 for 6 snap fit cavalry. I've wanted rivendale knights since I got into the hobby, when I saw a sneak peak of them I though 'yea, I'm dusting off the old high elves and starting a cav focused army'. Then I saw the Hobbit release prices and though 'well I can get 1 box to paint'. Then I saw these at $15 more than the cavalry in the initial release and thought 'feth you GW.. feth you.'

I'm pretty sure if you took Australian pricing, the only thing going down might be when models used to be metal and they are now plastic. eg. Space Wolves when I started were all metal, they're now plastic and adjusted for inflation would have gone done a few dollars.

 Kingsley wrote:

So overall, we see that of the 28 basic Troops kits, 6 have gone up in price since 2004, 4 went up or down depending on what loadout you took, 10 went down in price when you account for inflation, and 8 outright decreased in price without accounting for inflation. In other words, 65% of Troops choices have gone down in price since 2004. Since this comprises 8 years of nominal "price increases," it's clear that GW does not hike prices on basic units as much as many people think.

Thats great for troops. Now do the same for elites, characters and army books.

Stonie wrote:
Where I do agree with elements of the arguement here you have to consider the relative sizes of these companies. If you look at the retail estate held by GW, the number of staff across the business from store > designers > artists > developers > writers > management > factory > warehouse etc proportionally the costs are much higher than that of a much smaller competitor business. This has a knock on effect on the cost to the end user...

But it should also be benefitting massively from economies of scale; it must be buying in raw materials and services (like shipping) at a fraction of the price smaller companies are because they are buying orders of magnitude more than the smaller companies. They have in house development so they don't need to pay extra for that, and they have shorter turn around times, and they also have a huge global sales presence. I can't see how they should be at any disadvantage to their competition.

Boutique garage-caster resin companies are producing larger, better resin figures than GW does from it's industrial behemoth. There's no way GW paid more for the finished product that the boutique figure. The only reason I can think of for the pricing is the market dominance, and I'm not sure how long that'll be the case.

Rick_1138 wrote:
I always look at it like this, rule books for 40k/fantasy usually last about 5 years, and are say £45 each.

My motorbike helmet lasts 5 years before UV damage, use etc means its best to replace, my last one was £750, i got it for £480 as i bought a new bike.

GW books are in the grand scheme not that expensive over 5 years.

although i realise its not a similar analogy, my point is, as hobbies go, they get a LOT more expensive than toy soldiers.

Car road tax at £200 a year, the next car i am looking at its in th £480 a year bracket!! Plastic crack is buttons in comparison.

As far as some hobbies go, GW is pretty cheap, I don't think anyone will argue against that. I know people who spend more on Ski holidays twice a year than I've spent on GW this decade, and I spend much more attending car shows and such than on GW. But compared to other related hobbies (i.e. modelling and wargaming) GW is not the cheapest by a long shot. I could sell off my 3-4k point IG army 2nd hand and replace it with a much larger selection of armies from other games at retail price.I rekon I could fairly comfortably get a decent Bolt Action army to rival my guards, and make a decent start on a Crusader Templar army with the money.

Herzlos wrote:


As far as some hobbies go, GW is pretty cheap, I don't think anyone will argue against that. I know people who spend more on Ski holidays twice a year than I've spent on GW this decade, and I spend much more attending car shows and such than on GW. But compared to other related hobbies (i.e. modelling and wargaming) GW is not the cheapest by a long shot. I could sell off my 3-4k point IG army 2nd hand and replace it with a much larger selection of armies from other games at retail price.I rekon I could fairly comfortably get a decent Bolt Action army to rival my guards, and make a decent start on a Crusader Templar army with the money.

This is very true, i make models from Tamiya, Hasegawa etc too, and they are about the same price point to each other, averaging anything from about £25-£150.

However once the thing is made i cant do anything more with it, so its nice to have but just sits. At least if i spend it on GW or any model manufacturer of figures, i get long term use out of it, which i think makes it more worthwhile, although the big issue with GW is start up, once you have the rules and a basic force, you can trickle along happily enough.

I have found this as i am looking at fantasy again, and its a big whack to start from scratch, but island of blood, sell the figures, saves on a big rule book, and i will buy in dribs n drabs over time.

I shant look at the saughter\muta thing though, unless its a game breaker model, as at £50 its gonna need to be good in game.

 Kingsley wrote:
So overall, we see that of the 28 basic Troops kits, 6 have gone up in price since 2004, 4 went up or down depending on what loadout you took, 10 went down in price when you account for inflation, and 8 outright decreased in price without accounting for inflation. In other words, 65% of Troops choices have gone down in price since 2004. Since this comprises 8 years of nominal "price increases," it's clear that GW does not hike prices on basic units as much as many people think.

I haven't checked all data of this, but I think it could be summarized like this:

1.) If a standard unit is converted from metal to plastic, the price usually goes down.
2.) If a standard unit already IS in plastic
a.) and it is not a horde army needing many standards, price goes up.
b.) and it is a horde army needing lots of standards, prices skyrocket.

This doesn't include the fact that most standard troops in LOTR went up about 100% within a year.
This doesn't include the fact that in Fantasy 8th edition, you need lots of standards to play competitively.

Yeah thats all well and good but in 2004 I only needed 2 troops. Since 2008 (5th ed) you need at least 4 if you want to win a game. Oh and they had these awesome things called.... oh damn what were they called.. its been so long, Oh yeah, discounts, as in buying a battle force and saving $50, but I guess that doesnt matter.

 Ravenous D wrote:
Yeah thats all well and good but in 2004 I only needed 2 troops. Since 2008 (5th ed) you need at least 4 if you want to win a game. Oh and they had these awesome things called.... oh damn what were they called.. its been so long, Oh yeah, discounts, as in buying a battle force and saving $50, but I guess that doesnt matter.

You do still get discounts though, a space marine battleforce saves £20 ($45) over seperate boxes.

I only checked this as a curiosity, but most battleforce sets\battalions do have a saving over individual buys.

This isnt guaranteed though.

Yeah but the old battle forces had stuff you would use, the cadian one had the Russ replaced with a sentinal. The necron one was godly, build a 4th ed tournament hard 1700pt army for less then $400. The cost of armies has gone up, that is impossible to deny, what used to be a $500 to $600 investment can easily be $800+ these days. I just tallied up a space marine army that consists of no new models that would have cost me $150 cheaper then last year.

Factor in points drops (especially for transports), the loss of Bitz, and increase in price on other items and it paints a very different picture.

Rick_1138 wrote:

 Ravenous D wrote:
Yeah thats all well and good but in 2004 I only needed 2 troops. Since 2008 (5th ed) you need at least 4 if you want to win a game. Oh and they had these awesome things called.... oh damn what were they called.. its been so long, Oh yeah, discounts, as in buying a battle force and saving $50, but I guess that doesnt matter.

You do still get discounts though, a space marine battleforce saves £20 ($45) over seperate boxes.

I only checked this as a curiosity, but most battleforce sets\battalions do have a saving over individual buys.

This isnt guaranteed though.

Have you seen the latest one click bundles though? They never actually say 'discount' but there is a perceived notion in retail that if things are bundled together like that you'll be getting some small discount. GW is the only company I know of that bundles things together simply so you don't have to click 4 more times.

That's true, the bundles used to be a discount, no its just a set.

However I'm never saying its cheap, prices will always increase its a sad fact of life, but as long as folk seem happy to Pay it will contInue. The hobbit stuff is the only thing that I have seen as really daft, specifically the massive rule book that won't cover the next film tie in as it will have its own, so a£50 book for a year is far too steep and smacks of greed, how much of a hand new line had in this I don't know, but that brought a tear to my eye when that came out.

I think June will be telling, if there is a big price adjustment folk will go mad, if it's a few £ here and there to homogenise the see then that's more expected.