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Wayshuba wrote:
I don't know where this information came from.

This information comes from this web archive of the Games Workshop webstore circa July 2004.

Wayshuba wrote:
First, the Assault Squad has 10 marines in it and a price of $30. They are plastic.

According to the GW store, the Assault Squad box circa 2004 has 5 Marines in it, not 10. If yours has 10 in it you must have lucked out with a box containing extra sprues.

Wayshuba wrote:
Second, the Guardians are $26 for 16. Again an increase.

This is not actually an increase because Guardian heavy weapon platforms used to cost 20 USD each and they now come in the box.

Wayshuba wrote:
Also, a lot of the numbers you quote changed from metal (the daemons, Dire Avengers and SM scouts) to plastic - so considering the change, there is still a hefty price increase.

I don't get how paying less for the same number of models-- or more models-- is considered a "price increase" because the new models are in plastic and the old ones are in metal. Generally speaking, plastic kits are both superior and preferable to metal ones for almost all units.

Wayshuba wrote:
Let me give another one since I have it here. I have Commander Dante in a blister that I bought at the same time as the Assault squad. Price marked is $11.00. Now he is finecrap cast and sells for $19.25 - that is a 75% increase for a material that cost substantial less than metal.

Sure. Characters have gone up a lot because they're centerpiece models that you only need one or two of, so GW can get away with charging a large price for them. The same goes for large vehicles like Land Raiders.

Wayshuba wrote:
You are correct that the troops haven't moved much, but let's be honest here, they tend to be a small part of most armies. Elites, Fast Attack, and Heavy Support tends to make up a majority of one's armies - and GW knows this. The only possible exception is Imperial Guard which, because they tend to be troop heavy, GW has really put the screws to those troops.

Then why have Troops have grown more and more important over the course of the game? Also note that many Elites, Fast Attack, and Heavy Support models have gone down in price as well. Generally the trend seems to be to decrease prices on infantry boxes and increase prices on single characters, vehicles, and similar centerpieces. IMO this is a valid strategy.

 MisterMoon wrote:

I personaly think that it's not the price of the hobby that drives people away from GW. All my friends that still play Table Top games work full time. Try playing Golf ore some other pricy adult hobby and you will soon find that Minature gaming is cheap.

This is a point I've said countless times.

And yet you still do not see the fact it is (as HBMC so eloquently put to someone else) your favourite kind of food. The red herring.

Wargaming miniature prices should be compared to other wargaming miniature prices. Nothing else.

Reboxing, recuts of sprues, weapon changes, inclusion of new options, change of material muddies the waters greatly. Models that are IDENTICAL from 2004-Present

Land Raider - $55 -> $74.25
Catachan Jungle Fighters - $1.5ea -> $2.9ea (-edit- dunno of the Rambos got a weapon accessory sprue... if so, they should be removed from this list)
Fire Warriors - $30/box -> $36.25/box
Kroot Warriors - $30/box -> $36.25/box

Looks like boxes that haven't been repacked are below the price of inflation, but boxes that got repacked are well above. Vehicles look like a mixed bag. Land Raider is a poor example, but few kits from that era have made it through the years without a repack, or addition/change of accessory sprues.

 keezus wrote:
Reboxing, recuts of sprues, weapon changes, inclusion of new options, change of material muddies the waters greatly. Models that are IDENTICAL from 2004-Present

Land Raider - $55 -> $74.25
Catachan Jungle Fighters - $1.5ea -> $2.9ea (-edit- dunno of the Rambos got a weapon accessory sprue... if so, they should be removed from this list)
Fire Warriors - $30/box -> $36.25/box
Kroot Warriors - $30/box -> $36.25/box

Looks like boxes that haven't been repacked are below the price of inflation, but boxes that got repacked are well above. Vehicles look like a mixed bag. Land Raider is a poor example, but few kits from that era have made it through the years without a repack, or addition/change of accessory sprues.

The Catachans didn't get a weapon accessory sprue that I'm aware of. I think the Land Raider actually did, though that may only apply to the Crusader/Redeemer.

 Kingsley wrote:

Wayshuba wrote:
I don't know where this information came from.

This information comes from this web archive of the Games Workshop webstore circa July 2004.

Wayshuba wrote:
First, the Assault Squad has 10 marines in it and a price of $30. They are plastic.

According to the GW store, the Assault Squad box circa 2004 has 5 Marines in it, not 10. If yours has 10 in it you must have lucked out with a box containing extra sprues.

But you miss the whole story...

http://web.archive.org/web/20071011015141/http://store.us.games-workshop.com/storefront/store.us?do=List_Models&code=302197&orignav=300866&ParentID=254832&GameNav=10

In 2006, they were $25 for 5 - now they are $33 for 5...well and above inflation (by about double).

The same actually holds for a plurality of what you mentioned. When they recut a number of items and transferred them into plastic (or different/new sprues) the price of a lot of items dropped. A lot of that took place in 2005-2006 period as before that, a majority of manufacturing was done in the UK and they were still getting all their production up and running in the US.

The new packaging for the Eldar Guardians happened with their last Codex update in 2007 and it was $30 for the box. Now it is $36.25 for the exact same box, exact same contents. Again, twice the rate of inflation.

Armies model count in general got a lot bigger so it's fallacious to look at prices completely detached from the reality... In short making full armies today is more expensive and the material is inferior ( and its getting silly the debates claiming plastic is superior, if you dont know the difference in detail buy a pair of glasses). If your buying one mini to paint well characters are more expensive and again material inferior... So on both realities, building fully functional armies or just buying blisters to paint things are not as cheap as some of you claim.

With this said, make some well designed minis and I can take plastics and prices. As for finecast lets just say that I pass.

 Grimtuff wrote:
[ And yet you still do not see the fact it is (as HBMC so eloquently put to someone else) your favourite kind of food. The red herring.

Wargaming miniature prices should be compared to other wargaming miniature prices. Nothing else.

And yet so far in this thread I've seen GW minis compared to;
*Motorcycle helmets
*A high-end gaming computers
*Ski equipment
*World travel

Have you ever compared FW guard vehicles to collecting actual vintage tanks? Warhammer's mega cheap yo!

 NAVARRO wrote:
( and its getting silly the debates claiming plastic is superior, if you dont know the difference in detail buy a pair of glasses)

Plastic is superior for gaming peices. It's lighter and the material is easier to work with concerning contruction and conversions. Metal/resin is better for display peices, due to holding better detail, but has it's own drawbacks (metal is heavier making bulk transport harder, requires pinning, is harder to convert, resin is more brittle and easily damaged).

 -Loki- wrote:

 NAVARRO wrote:
( and its getting silly the debates claiming plastic is superior, if you dont know the difference in detail buy a pair of glasses)

Plastic is superior for gaming peices. It's lighter and the material is easier to work with concerning contruction and conversions. Metal/resin is better for display peices, due to holding better detail, but has it's own drawbacks (metal is heavier making bulk transport harder, requires pinning, is harder to convert, resin is more brittle and easily damaged).

Yeah. The detail on a standard plastic piece is perfectly sufficient, especially at tabletop distances, and the ability to convert and pose your models makes them advantageous for normal units. Metal or resin can in some cases be preferable for characters, especially special characters, but even then I honestly prefer plastic.

 -Loki- wrote:

 NAVARRO wrote:
( and its getting silly the debates claiming plastic is superior, if you dont know the difference in detail buy a pair of glasses)

Plastic is superior for gaming peices. It's lighter and the material is easier to work with concerning contruction and conversions. Metal/resin is better for display peices, due to holding better detail, but has it's own drawbacks (metal is heavier making bulk transport harder, requires pinning, is harder to convert, resin is more brittle and easily damaged).

That being said, I much prefer the weight of metal when scooting little 6mm or 15mm tanks around on the tabletop

 Pacific wrote:

 -Loki- wrote:

 NAVARRO wrote:
( and its getting silly the debates claiming plastic is superior, if you dont know the difference in detail buy a pair of glasses)

Plastic is superior for gaming peices. It's lighter and the material is easier to work with concerning contruction and conversions. Metal/resin is better for display peices, due to holding better detail, but has it's own drawbacks (metal is heavier making bulk transport harder, requires pinning, is harder to convert, resin is more brittle and easily damaged).

That being said, I much prefer the weight of metal when scooting little 6mm or 15mm tanks around on the tabletop

Add some weights, you should have some sort of random metal bits lying about the house. Add a couple washers to the underside/inside the tank and boom, nicely weighted.

 Boggy Man wrote:

 Grimtuff wrote:
[ And yet you still do not see the fact it is (as HBMC so eloquently put to someone else) your favourite kind of food. The red herring.

Wargaming miniature prices should be compared to other wargaming miniature prices. Nothing else.

And yet so far in this thread I've seen GW minis compared to;
*Motorcycle helmets
*A high-end gaming computers
*Ski equipment
*World travel

Have you ever compared FW guard vehicles to collecting actual vintage tanks? Warhammer's mega cheap yo!

then people will compare it to PP, where the individual boxes are cheaper but you need much, much less for an army, but some really don't seem to understand that and keep going on about that factoid
yeah GW is cheap compared to high end computers, but a computer can do a lot more then a space marine land raider
compared to other miniatures, GW is by far the most expensive in terms of start up and long term and we all know that
sure I can compare warhammer to my ball jointed dolls which both can cost up into the thousands (like many hobbies) but it wouldn't work because dolls don't have a game or rules or anything like that
its a doll, with tiny doll clothes one can make themselves if they are so inclined
hobbies like that don't have set prices for its things cause its not all owned by one company like warhammer is

 Grimtuff wrote:

 MisterMoon wrote:

I personaly think that it's not the price of the hobby that drives people away from GW. All my friends that still play Table Top games work full time. Try playing Golf ore some other pricy adult hobby and you will soon find that Minature gaming is cheap.

This is a point I've said countless times.

And yet you still do not see the fact it is (as HBMC so eloquently put to someone else) your favourite kind of food. The red herring.

Wargaming miniature prices should be compared to other wargaming miniature prices. Nothing else.

Dude, when did an analogy become a red herring? Comparing one hobby to another is not a red herring. He's not trying to confuse or lead the argument with golfing, he's simply giving a relevant analogy.


How's that for ing eloquence?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

sure I can compare warhammer to my ball jointed dolls which both can cost up into the thousands (like many hobbies) but it wouldn't work because dolls don't have a game or rules or anything like that
its a doll, with tiny doll clothes one can make themselves if they are so inclined
hobbies like that don't have set prices for its things cause its not all owned by one company like warhammer is

What in the mother of God is a ball jointed doll, and why are you playing with them?

 Rainbow Dash wrote:

 Boggy Man wrote:

 Grimtuff wrote:
[ And yet you still do not see the fact it is (as HBMC so eloquently put to someone else) your favourite kind of food. The red herring.

Wargaming miniature prices should be compared to other wargaming miniature prices. Nothing else.

And yet so far in this thread I've seen GW minis compared to;
*Motorcycle helmets
*A high-end gaming computers
*Ski equipment
*World travel

Have you ever compared FW guard vehicles to collecting actual vintage tanks? Warhammer's mega cheap yo!

then people will compare it to PP, where the individual boxes are cheaper but you need much, much less for an army, but some really don't seem to understand that and keep going on about that factoid
yeah GW is cheap compared to high end computers, but a computer can do a lot more then a space marine land raider
compared to other miniatures, GW is by far the most expensive in terms of start up and long term and we all know that
sure I can compare warhammer to my ball jointed dolls which both can cost up into the thousands (like many hobbies) but it wouldn't work because dolls don't have a game or rules or anything like that
its a doll, with tiny doll clothes one can make themselves if they are so inclined
hobbies like that don't have set prices for its things cause its not all owned by one company like warhammer is

That's a damn good point. Compared to other hobbies GW can be stupidly expensive or stupidly cheap, but we shouldn't be comparing 'the GW hobby' to other hobbies, we should be comparing GW to other companies in this hobby. PP is as expensive on a model by model basis and in the long term it might end up just as expensive (depending on how much you buy) but to get an average sized army going it is much cheaper. Mantic and lot of other companies do reasonable quality but you can get entire armies for a couple of hundred (hell I got into dyst wars with an average sized fleet and I have spent less than I would for a 6th ed 40k rulebook). On the other side of that there are plenty of companies who's models are more expensive but they are much larger, far more detailed and simply there to paint (so no need to buy $100 rulebooks).

I personally was looking at starting a new DA army but at this point the models have gotten so damn expensive and the quality of some of the figs are so deplorable that I reconsidered. I can't justify shelling out nearly $200 for 6 bikes, 1 Attack bike, 1 Speeder, 5 Vets and a Codex it is just insane that GW hasn't driven themselves out of business with the erratic price jumps with all of the great competition out there.

Not to mention the cost of raw material to them is next to nothing verses the inflated prices they ask for their figs. I understand wanting to make a profit on your product but at some point it just becomes greedy and almost unethical.

I guess I will just stick to the army I have already poured buckets of cash into.

 Bloodfrenzy187 wrote:
I personally was looking at starting a new DA army but at this point the models have gotten so damn expensive and the quality of some of the figs are so deplorable that I reconsidered. I can't justify shelling out nearly $200 for 6 bikes, 1 Attack bike, 1 Speeder, 5 Vets and a Codex it is just insane that GW hasn't driven themselves out of business with the erratic price jumps with all of the great competition out there.

Not to mention the cost of raw material to them is next to nothing verses the inflated prices they ask for their figs. I understand wanting to make a profit on your product but at some point it just becomes greedy and almost unethical.

I guess I will just stick to the army I have already poured buckets of cash into.

QFT. I can not justify paying what they are asking for the models in question. $20 dollars a month goes to GW models/product. The excess (which is a lot) goes to helping out the developmentally disabled that I do volunteer work for as well as an occasional game.

I'll stick with the armies that I have and build them up over time.

 Grimtuff wrote:



What in the mother of God is a ball jointed doll, and why are you playing with them?

a ball jointed doll is a doll that poses, it has ball joints for greater movement and great posing
(you don't play with them persay, but display them and have friendly meet ups with other like minded individuals, mostly women)
back home we also played D&D
this is one of them, she's about 5 inches tall, but they tend to scare some so... warning you

 Bloodfrenzy187 wrote:
I personally was looking at starting a new DA army but at this point the models have gotten so damn expensive and the quality of some of the figs are so deplorable that I reconsidered. I can't justify shelling out nearly $200 for 6 bikes, 1 Attack bike, 1 Speeder, 5 Vets and a Codex it is just insane that GW hasn't driven themselves out of business with the erratic price jumps with all of the great competition out there.

Not to mention the cost of raw material to them is next to nothing verses the inflated prices they ask for their figs. I understand wanting to make a profit on your product but at some point it just becomes greedy and almost unethical.

I guess I will just stick to the army I have already poured buckets of cash into.

Yeah. When I saw the Dark Vengeance set I was like "omg I want a Dark Angels army", largely because I've always contemplated one anyway and my mate and I discussed years ago us going halves on buying/painted a DA army. But the models that have come out since Dark Vengeance have completely put me off, both in terms of styling/quality and price.

 Pacific wrote:

 -Loki- wrote:

 NAVARRO wrote:
( and its getting silly the debates claiming plastic is superior, if you dont know the difference in detail buy a pair of glasses)

Plastic is superior for gaming peices. It's lighter and the material is easier to work with concerning contruction and conversions. Metal/resin is better for display peices, due to holding better detail, but has it's own drawbacks (metal is heavier making bulk transport harder, requires pinning, is harder to convert, resin is more brittle and easily damaged).

That being said, I much prefer the weight of metal when scooting little 6mm or 15mm tanks around on the tabletop

I don't, simply because of accumulated weight. One tank in metal has a nice heft to it when you move it. Two dozen, plus supporting metal models like infantry, artillery, etc really weight a miniatures case down. This leads to undue wear on the pressure points on the case where lift pressure is exerted, which end up damaging the case sooner.

As a material for gaming peices, plastic just just better. Lighter, meaning that army isn't as heavy in the case. More durable than resin, so thinner components aren't going to break as easily. Less flexible than metal, meaning thinner components aren't going to bend and develop stress fractures. Not as dense as metal, so it's easier to convert. Less susceptible to chipping than resin and metal, meaning less repair work. easier to construct than both resin and metal - no pinning required.

It's just a better medium for gaming pieces.

 jonolikespie wrote:

That's a damn good point. Compared to other hobbies GW can be stupidly expensive or stupidly cheap, but we shouldn't be comparing 'the GW hobby' to other hobbies, we should be comparing GW to other companies in this hobby. PP is as expensive on a model by model basis and in the long term it might end up just as expensive (depending on how much you buy) but to get an average sized army going it is much cheaper. Mantic and lot of other companies do reasonable quality but you can get entire armies for a couple of hundred (hell I got into dyst wars with an average sized fleet and I have spent less than I would for a 6th ed 40k rulebook). On the other side of that there are plenty of companies who's models are more expensive but they are much larger, far more detailed and simply there to paint (so no need to buy $100 rulebooks).

GW compared to PP on model per model basis is a mixed bag tbh. PP has cheaper singles, cheaper Dreadnaught size models, cheaper termy equivalent sized models and the metal units are cheaper than the GW metals. Look at how much a full sister's unit costs now.

 Surtur wrote:

 jonolikespie wrote:

That's a damn good point. Compared to other hobbies GW can be stupidly expensive or stupidly cheap, but we shouldn't be comparing 'the GW hobby' to other hobbies, we should be comparing GW to other companies in this hobby. PP is as expensive on a model by model basis and in the long term it might end up just as expensive (depending on how much you buy) but to get an average sized army going it is much cheaper. Mantic and lot of other companies do reasonable quality but you can get entire armies for a couple of hundred (hell I got into dyst wars with an average sized fleet and I have spent less than I would for a 6th ed 40k rulebook). On the other side of that there are plenty of companies who's models are more expensive but they are much larger, far more detailed and simply there to paint (so no need to buy $100 rulebooks).

GW compared to PP on model per model basis is a mixed bag tbh. PP has cheaper singles, cheaper Dreadnaught size models, cheaper termy equivalent sized models and the metal units are cheaper than the GW metals. Look at how much a full sister's unit costs now.

Fair enough, I wasn't meaning to get into all that, just point out comparing GW to golf is stupid when it can be compared to other mini companies.

Went into GW yesterday, Spotted Gollum and Bilbo riddles in the dark finecast blister (was going to paint them for the wife) at........£20.00.

Two tiny figures for that!!!!

Really?

 Mr. Burning wrote:
Went into GW yesterday, Spotted Gollum and Bilbo riddles in the dark finecast blister (was going to paint them for the wife) at........£20.00.

Two tiny figures for that!!!!

Really?

Don't you get a little boat too? Ungrateful

No ring in there?

 MisterMoon wrote:

PhantomViper wrote:

 MisterMoon wrote:
I find that it's way to munchkin, but that's cool that you like it.

I don't think that that term means what you think it means.

People have already asked you once to clarify what you mean by it, so I'll join the chorus: what do you mean when you say that WMH is too "munchkin"?

OK... Here's my take on WMH
I meant munchkin like a powergamer, not a perfect fit, but I do know what the word means, thanks. My general take on WMH is it's a contest of who can out powergame the other. There's less on tactics, again imo, than GW 40k. Some feel at home with WMH, but I particularly feel like there's way too much involvement on crazy powers and the like. It's like every time an opponent is rest assured to bring out some crazyness you've never heard of, and page 5 and blah blah... But this is my experience. Again, if you like WMH that's fine, but I don't see an apples and apples comparison to 40k. It's also a skirmish game. If you REALLY like WMH, I can also see why you stopped playing 40k, they are quite different.

I can see you havent really played WMH enough. If you had you would know its alot more tactical then 40k, which really is a luck of the dice game. Yes there is alot of Powergaming going on, but you can counter everything. The trick is to know the game, So that you understand what is the most threatening thing to your army that your opponent has on the table. I play chess on a competetive level and warmchaine comes much closer to that game then any other table top game that I have played. Chess has been around for thousands of years, you know why? because its competetive and fair. GW is on the other hand all about the cheese, Unbalanced, Conflicting rulesets, To many dice rolls, Roll to hit, roll to wound, Roll armour saves, Roll feel no pain saves it leaves things way more up to Chans and luck of the dice... Vs Warmachine Roll to hit then cheack how much damage it did, simple and elegant design. Movement in WH is also alot more important then in GW games. How you place your models can win or lose you the game. Terrain is actually integrated into the main rules and has an impact on games. If you dont have pathfinder you try and stay away from Woods and difficult ground for example. Also we play Steamroller with Chess Death clock, Timed turns highly competetive, 40k cant compeat with this, outdated last century rules, that were fine in the 90s. But you have to evolve or you die, that is the nature of survival of the fitest. And at this point in time Privateer press has the EDGE..

But there is also a Fluff reason to play Warmachine. BIG MONSTERS and BIG Warmachines are NASTY on the Battlefield, If I push down the battlefield Trampling over troops as i go with my Avatar of Menoth and then slam into a big Warbeast and hit him with my Big sword The rules help to make that scenario COOL. When I move my dreadnought in 40k over the battlefield and some litte feth tard trooper gets a glancing hit on it and it Explods it just feels SAD it just becomes an anticlimax. GW do not suport the COOL factor that is in the lore with the RULES. Hull points WHAT A fething JOKE.. 20 necron warriors BOOM there goes my LandRaider... I cant stress this part enough. I want fluffy and COOL factor and warmachine gives me just that.. OMG cool.. were 40k is just comicly SAD. with unbalanced, unrealistic rules, with WAY WAY to many dice rolls..

To sum things up

Warmachine/hordes
+ Rules that say what they do and work
+ Cool monsters and machines that are actually Hard to kill, and Do massive damage themselves.
+ Terrain actually plays a part in a game and is well suported by the rules
+ To have a Commander that leads your force gives the game a more Chess like fell, And chess has been around for thousands of years for a reason.
+ All Armées are updated regularly NOBODY GETS LEFT BEHIND
+ Cards for all units which makes it Easy to just swap out some stuff and build a new list and then play again..
+ Offical Tournements are suported by the company, Steamroller Rules, and they get updated evry year
+ Privateer press Runs their own Forums, were they post rules clarifications and interact about the hobby with the fans/customers
+ No Quarter Magazine is a really good, with lots of goodies in it every month.
+ Keeps up with the times, War Room is a great first attempt at making an App for your phone that integrates with the game.

Games Workshop, Fantasy/40k, LOTR, Hobbit etc.
- Rules that are a mess to play, you have to house rule and change them to make them work. Have to look through lots of books, and it still gets confusing LOLZ
- Cool LORE.. but when you get it on the battlefield it becomes Uncool and most of the time you are best off fielding the Cheapest thing in the codex and just spam it to win ( goes hand in hand with GWs policy of trying to sell you more stuff)
- Unbanced outdated codexes for example Vanilla marine cost 16 pts and has basic weapons, you can kit out gray knitghs cheaper with Force weapons lolz.. And the new dark Angels codex they Cost 14 pts.. and lets not get into what the Spacewolfs can field and use LOLZ....
- Latest 40k Ruleset is geard towards Shooting, leaving Nidz and many other close combat forces in the dust. But hey lets look at what codexes are coming this edition hmm.. TAU, Eldar and probably IPG.. so again it goes hand in hand with GWs scheems and Tricks.. feth I hate them...
- White dwarf magazine is a crappy Add thick piece of crap, that I would never spend my money on
- No offical forums, because they got so much hate on the one they had they shut it down.
- No offical Tournaments, I think this says it all! this company is not about making a balanced fun games to play, they are just about selling Miniatures..
- Are not keeping up with the Digital age at all...

This is not the 90s.. Kidds these days have been playing computer games for years. The computer market is Table top gamings greates adversary in this age. Little kidds like to play on the computer more then they like to play with Miniatures. And the computer companies are all ABOUT THE BALANCE, because they want to make E-sports. Leauge of legends, Dota, WoW, Call of Duty , Starcraft and many computer games WORK HARD TO GIVE Customers balance. Balance is the new MANTRA . So if they want to grow and lure the modern day childrean away from the computers they have to start making a balanced game or they will soon find themselves and old Relic of bygone days, just like Kodak, who used to be leading the Camara industry, but failed to keep up with the times and was shut down..

 Boggy Man wrote:

 Grimtuff wrote:
[ And yet you still do not see the fact it is (as HBMC so eloquently put to someone else) your favourite kind of food. The red herring.

Wargaming miniature prices should be compared to other wargaming miniature prices. Nothing else.

And yet so far in this thread I've seen GW minis compared to;
*Motorcycle helmets
*A high-end gaming computers
*Ski equipment
*World travel

Have you ever compared FW guard vehicles to collecting actual vintage tanks? Warhammer's mega cheap yo!

Compared to other hobbies GW isn't that expensive. I think that's what the people mean.

 ExNoctemNacimur wrote:

 Boggy Man wrote:

 Grimtuff wrote:
[ And yet you still do not see the fact it is (as HBMC so eloquently put to someone else) your favourite kind of food. The red herring.

Wargaming miniature prices should be compared to other wargaming miniature prices. Nothing else.

And yet so far in this thread I've seen GW minis compared to;
*Motorcycle helmets
*A high-end gaming computers
*Ski equipment
*World travel

Have you ever compared FW guard vehicles to collecting actual vintage tanks? Warhammer's mega cheap yo!

Compared to other hobbies GW isn't that expensive. I think that's what the people mean.

Oh yes, compared to my hobby of mining for uranium in my back yard GW is a pittance.

It's a false analogy.

 ExNoctemNacimur wrote:

 Boggy Man wrote:

 Grimtuff wrote:
[ And yet you still do not see the fact it is (as HBMC so eloquently put to someone else) your favourite kind of food. The red herring.

Wargaming miniature prices should be compared to other wargaming miniature prices. Nothing else.

And yet so far in this thread I've seen GW minis compared to;
*Motorcycle helmets
*A high-end gaming computers
*Ski equipment
*World travel

Have you ever compared FW guard vehicles to collecting actual vintage tanks? Warhammer's mega cheap yo!

Compared to other hobbies GW isn't that expensive. I think that's what the people mean.

Which constitutes a Red Herring because people aren't interested in other hobbies, only in the tabletop wargaming hobby (considering that this is a tabletop wargaming forum), so couldn't care less what other hypothetical hobbies cost. I think that is what the other people mean.

 jonolikespie wrote:

 Surtur wrote:

 jonolikespie wrote:

That's a damn good point. Compared to other hobbies GW can be stupidly expensive or stupidly cheap, but we shouldn't be comparing 'the GW hobby' to other hobbies, we should be comparing GW to other companies in this hobby. PP is as expensive on a model by model basis and in the long term it might end up just as expensive (depending on how much you buy) but to get an average sized army going it is much cheaper. Mantic and lot of other companies do reasonable quality but you can get entire armies for a couple of hundred (hell I got into dyst wars with an average sized fleet and I have spent less than I would for a 6th ed 40k rulebook). On the other side of that there are plenty of companies who's models are more expensive but they are much larger, far more detailed and simply there to paint (so no need to buy $100 rulebooks).

GW compared to PP on model per model basis is a mixed bag tbh. PP has cheaper singles, cheaper Dreadnaught size models, cheaper termy equivalent sized models and the metal units are cheaper than the GW metals. Look at how much a full sister's unit costs now.

Fair enough, I wasn't meaning to get into all that, just point out comparing GW to golf is stupid when it can be compared to other mini companies.

The point I was trying to make was I don't really think it's about the money. People say that it is, but I think there is a deeper underlying problem, and that is that we Feel Screwed by the company. The game is not as fun as it used to be, Codexes do not get updated in a timely fashion. And then the prices go up and people starting to questioning is this really worth it anymore? The lore of 40k and fantasy is super cool, The miniatures look awsome, But the RULES SUCK period. And some of us like to paint and build armies but most people don't. If you come into the hobby with 6 friends maybe 2 of you like to paint the figures the others just want to play. And when the rules suck they quit after a starter box or two. Also you need to many models to get a GW army up and running.

 Deunstephe wrote:

 Pacific wrote:

 -Loki- wrote:

 NAVARRO wrote:
( and its getting silly the debates claiming plastic is superior, if you dont know the difference in detail buy a pair of glasses)

Plastic is superior for gaming peices. It's lighter and the material is easier to work with concerning contruction and conversions. Metal/resin is better for display peices, due to holding better detail, but has it's own drawbacks (metal is heavier making bulk transport harder, requires pinning, is harder to convert, resin is more brittle and easily damaged).

That being said, I much prefer the weight of metal when scooting little 6mm or 15mm tanks around on the tabletop

Add some weights, you should have some sort of random metal bits lying about the house. Add a couple washers to the underside/inside the tank and boom, nicely weighted.

Yes but its not the same! I don't know, perhaps its just something to do with the texture and balance of such small metal pieces (and only tanks?!) And yes I think I need to get out more