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 azreal13 wrote:

 Nakor The BlueRider wrote:
I think GW has realized they can' t keep on jackin the prices up so they are lowering the ppm, case in point the new Daemon codex.

I think the worse offense is what happened with Flamers, they got new plastic models and super duper rules a year ago which gave the codex a whiff of being competitive (No you don't have to spam Flamers) so people bought then, probably too many and now with the new Codex they have been nerfed into oblivion.

+4 to wound/Glance with no amour/cover saves
To
S4 Ap4.

Now you can say they were too OP before and the nerf helps, I think it went way to far but w/e.

The main point is that GW buffed a unit for sales only to nerf it to push the sales of the new models in the space of a year. That's terrible business practice.

Actually it's excellent business practice. Doing it in such am obvious and clumsy fashion so your consumer is aware of it is what's terrible!

Hah yeah OK its a great for the company just sucks for everyone else.

Short Term > Long Term. I would say it will return to bite them in the ass but the current big wigs will have left with all the loot ages before that happens.

Jedziah wrote:

The marketing is particularly centric around GW models being some kind of Aston Martin of the modelling industry.

I know people with Aston Martins & similar toys.

There is this whole myth that GW are too expensive for kids. Whenever I point out that GW is no more expensive than other toys/hobbies I get shot down saying it's an irrelevant argument. But it really is not. There really are a great deal of parents buying their kids the Aston Martin of toys.

Jedziah wrote:


As for that comment above saying 'Embargo' will fix it. If you believe that GW posting a 7% GP after a 20% price hike and a 10% cut in production costs isnt covering a significant drop in volume sales (aka, people not buying OTS from GW and finding alternatives) then that is essentially your definition right there.

As you may have noticed, the drop in volume sales has led to them increasing prices and marketing in a more elitist fashion. Go and ask how a drop in volume sales has affected HMV and Zavvi in the UK. They cut their prices substantially in order to increase volume sales and that didnt work too well.

Nah it was because GW was sticking with its statement of "historical exchange rates", the aussies were able to buy things from England for less because their dollar was on par or very close to the british pound while in Australia they were (and still are) paying insane rates for no good reason. GWs response? Threaten all trade accounts in the northern hemisphere not to ship to Australia or lose their account. Same goes for the US and Canada, the factory we get our models from is in Memphis, why am paying prices set by some asshat across the Atlantic?

Riquende wrote:

 BryllCream wrote:

The one or two times I see a kid in GW (say, under 18) they buy something little if they buy something at all. Most of the regulars are in their 20s with full-time jobs.

 BryllCream wrote:

Bare in mind that GW is full of kids because most adults prefer to either go to GW, get exactly what they want and then leave, unlike kids who'll hang around and play some trial games..

So... which is it?

Or are you in fact just arguing for the sake of it?

Seems to be the tone I get from his posts.

 Ugavine wrote:

Jedziah wrote:

The marketing is particularly centric around GW models being some kind of Aston Martin of the modelling industry.

I know people with Aston Martins & similar toys.

There is this whole myth that GW are too expensive for kids. Whenever I point out that GW is no more expensive than other toys/hobbies I get shot down saying it's an irrelevant argument. But it really is not. There really are a great deal of parents buying their kids the Aston Martin of toys.

I think this is the third time I've said this in this thread.

The argument isn't about price per se, it's really about value, and that is where GW really starts to fall apart. £30 for a book? No problem! £30 for a 90 odd page expansion? Starting to think twice.

 Ugavine wrote:

Jedziah wrote:

The marketing is particularly centric around GW models being some kind of Aston Martin of the modelling industry.

I know people with Aston Martins & similar toys.

There is this whole myth that GW are too expensive for kids. Whenever I point out that GW is no more expensive than other toys/hobbies I get shot down saying it's an irrelevant argument. But it really is not. There really are a great deal of parents buying their kids the Aston Martin of toys.

A model company is not a car company and it isn't making products for the rich and famous. There are larger markets in the lower and middle classes and they're clearly causing red flags to those people in terms of value.

 Gentleman_Jellyfish wrote:

Riquende wrote:

 BryllCream wrote:

The one or two times I see a kid in GW (say, under 18) they buy something little if they buy something at all. Most of the regulars are in their 20s with full-time jobs.

 BryllCream wrote:

Bare in mind that GW is full of kids because most adults prefer to either go to GW, get exactly what they want and then leave, unlike kids who'll hang around and play some trial games..

So... which is it?

Or are you in fact just arguing for the sake of it?

Seems to be the tone I get from his posts.

Yup, we've taken away the shovel yet he continues to dig. Can't keep track of your own arguments there can ya BK?

 Ravenous D wrote:

Jedziah wrote:


As for that comment above saying 'Embargo' will fix it. If you believe that GW posting a 7% GP after a 20% price hike and a 10% cut in production costs isnt covering a significant drop in volume sales (aka, people not buying OTS from GW and finding alternatives) then that is essentially your definition right there.

As you may have noticed, the drop in volume sales has led to them increasing prices and marketing in a more elitist fashion. Go and ask how a drop in volume sales has affected HMV and Zavvi in the UK. They cut their prices substantially in order to increase volume sales and that didnt work too well.

Nah it was because GW was sticking with its statement of "historical exchange rates", the aussies were able to buy things from England for less because their dollar was on par or very close to the british pound while in Australia they were (and still are) paying insane rates for no good reason. GWs response? Threaten all trade accounts in the northern hemisphere not to ship to Australia or lose their account. Same goes for the US and Canada, the factory we get our models from is in Memphis, why am paying prices set by some asshat across the Atlantic?

Sorry to say mate but memphis is being shut down.

 captain collius wrote:
Sorry to say mate but memphis is being shut down.

Source?

 Breotan wrote:

 captain collius wrote:
Sorry to say mate but memphis is being shut down.

Source?

A friend of mine who was employed by GW.

 Nakor The BlueRider wrote:
I think GW has realized they can' t keep on jackin the prices up so they are lowering the ppm, case in point the new Daemon codex.

I think the worse offense is what happened with Flamers, they got new plastic models and super duper rules a year ago which gave the codex a whiff of being competitive (No you don't have to spam Flamers) so people bought then, probably too many and now with the new Codex they have been nerfed into oblivion.

+4 to wound/Glance with no amour/cover saves
To
S4 Ap4.

Now you can say they were too OP before and the nerf helps, I think it went way to far but w/e.

The main point is that GW buffed a unit for sales only to nerf it to push the sales of the new models in the space of a year. That's terrible business practice.

Going way back in time now, but I personally feel a lot of the changes from 2nd edition were to encourage purchasing of larger armies. Granted, a lot of rules did need fixing, but one of the most noticeable changes was the minimum number of models for an interesting game increased by probably about 50-100%.

 captain collius wrote:

 Breotan wrote:

 captain collius wrote:
Sorry to say mate but memphis is being shut down.

Source?

A friend of mine who was employed by GW.

So the Memphis factory is supposedly shutting down

 captain collius wrote:
Sorry to say mate but memphis is being shut down.

Well, maybe they'll start manufacturing somewhere cheaper, allowing them to cut priiii HAHAHAHAH, sorry I couldn't even finish that sentence.

If true, a closed plant could be another sign of GW customer demand starting to implode.

 Gentleman_Jellyfish wrote:
So the Memphis factory is supposedly shutting down

In other news, GW anounces that they are moving manufacturing to the moon due to substantially lower rent prices. However, due to factors outside their control - shipping costs have increased dramatically, and as a result, GW has no choice but to regretfully pass these added costs onto their customers in the form of a price increase. Fear not, this price increase won't affect the entire range. Modelling sand AND PVA Glue will stay at current 2013 prices. [/joke]

manufacturing to the moon should mean less bubbles in my ''finecast''

 keezus wrote:

 Gentleman_Jellyfish wrote:
So the Memphis factory is supposedly shutting down

In other news, GW anounces that they are moving manufacturing to the moon due to substantially lower rent prices. However, due to factors outside their control - shipping costs have increased dramatically, and as a result, GW has no choice but to regretfully pass these added costs onto their customers in the form of a price increase. Fear not, this price increase won't affect the entire range. Modelling sand AND PVA Glue will stay at current 2013 prices. [/joke]

Also, who else would pay more for basing materials from the moon?

 Surtur wrote:

 Ugavine wrote:

Jedziah wrote:

The marketing is particularly centric around GW models being some kind of Aston Martin of the modelling industry.

I know people with Aston Martins & similar toys.

There is this whole myth that GW are too expensive for kids. Whenever I point out that GW is no more expensive than other toys/hobbies I get shot down saying it's an irrelevant argument. But it really is not. There really are a great deal of parents buying their kids the Aston Martin of toys.

A model company is not a car company and it isn't making products for the rich and famous. There are larger markets in the lower and middle classes and they're clearly causing red flags to those people in terms of value.

Fact remains that there are a lot of people who are content to pay GW prices.

Value for money is in the eye of the beholder and I personally get my value for money from the GW products I buy.

This whole thread is trying to convince me to be unhappy about something that I am happy with

 Ugavine wrote:
I personally get my value for money from the GW products I buy.

That's absolutely fine, good for you. It's entirely a personal thing as to whether you find value in a particular product at a particular price.

This whole thread is trying to convince me to be unhappy about something that I am happy with

Umm, no. It's really more about questioning whether GW can remain competitive in a market when they're priced higher than any competitor* and are no longer making the premium-quality products they could once point to.

Unfortunately it keeps getting sidetracked by Iraqi information ministers telling the world everything's fine because GW's cheaper than snowboarding. Or something.

* total price to play - ie for a new player who has to buy the rulebook, codices (or equivalent), and at least one 'full size' army

Riquende wrote:

 Ugavine wrote:
I personally get my value for money from the GW products I buy.

That's absolutely fine, good for you. It's entirely a personal thing as to whether you find value in a particular product at a particular price.

This whole thread is trying to convince me to be unhappy about something that I am happy with

Umm, no. It's really more about questioning whether GW can remain competitive in a market when they're priced higher than any competitor* and are no longer making the premium-quality products they could once point to.

Unfortunately it keeps getting sidetracked by Iraqi information ministers telling the world everything's fine because GW's cheaper than snowboarding. Or something.

* total price to play - ie for a new player who has to buy the rulebook, codices (or equivalent), and at least one 'full size' army

Quoted for Truth and keep on with your postings. There are a few of us who watches those who post and those who prattle.

Jedziah wrote:
As you may have noticed, the drop in volume sales has led to them increasing prices and marketing in a more elitist fashion. Go and ask how a drop in volume sales has affected HMV and Zavvi in the UK. They cut their prices substantially in order to increase volume sales and that didnt work too well.

Riquende wrote:

 Ugavine wrote:
I personally get my value for money from the GW products I buy.

That's absolutely fine, good for you. It's entirely a personal thing as to whether you find value in a particular product at a particular price.

This whole thread is trying to convince me to be unhappy about something that I am happy with

Umm, no. It's really more about questioning whether GW can remain competitive in a market when they're priced higher than any competitor* and are no longer making the premium-quality products they could once point to.

Unfortunately it keeps getting sidetracked by Iraqi information ministers telling the world everything's fine because GW's cheaper than snowboarding. Or something.

* total price to play - ie for a new player who has to buy the rulebook, codices (or equivalent), and at least one 'full size' army

It's not cheaper than snowboarding.... A snowboard only runs you a couple hundred dollars max. Lift expenses might add up, but if you live in an area where you can hike a run yourself, then they are negligible. 40k still runs at MINIMUM $150+ if you wanted to play with undersized armies (Starter set, codex), likely at least 300+ If you want any semblance of a complete army. And then, you are railroaded into playing either chaos or DA. Heaven help you if you want to play something other than chaos or DA.

I shudder to think about how much an IG army would cost these days... especially a mech list.

I know I have been priced out, because I am lucky if I find a deal on Ebay for my price range. I would never be caught buying models new anymore... my wife would leave me (or demand an equal investment in jewelry). 40k has become a spectator sport for me... I couldn't afford to update my armies. I play a lot of RPGs (cheap) and computer games (mostly F2P) now.

 kevlar'o wrote:
manufacturing to the moon should mean less bubbles in my ''finecast''

On a related note I just unboxed a commission with ancient blood bowl and warhammer quest models and there isnt a single flaw in the hundred or so models. Wish I could say the same for my wrack army Finecast my ass.

 Ravenous D wrote:
Finecast my ass.

Okay... but be prepared to look like you've got a bad skin condition...

 FoxPhoenix135 wrote:

Riquende wrote:

 Ugavine wrote:
I personally get my value for money from the GW products I buy.

That's absolutely fine, good for you. It's entirely a personal thing as to whether you find value in a particular product at a particular price.

This whole thread is trying to convince me to be unhappy about something that I am happy with

Umm, no. It's really more about questioning whether GW can remain competitive in a market when they're priced higher than any competitor* and are no longer making the premium-quality products they could once point to.

Unfortunately it keeps getting sidetracked by Iraqi information ministers telling the world everything's fine because GW's cheaper than snowboarding. Or something.

* total price to play - ie for a new player who has to buy the rulebook, codices (or equivalent), and at least one 'full size' army

It's not cheaper than snowboarding.... A snowboard only runs you a couple hundred dollars max. Lift expenses might add up, but if you live in an area where you can hike a run yourself, then they are negligible. 40k still runs at MINIMUM $150+ if you wanted to play with undersized armies (Starter set, codex), likely at least 300+ If you want any semblance of a complete army. And then, you are railroaded into playing either chaos or DA. Heaven help you if you want to play something other than chaos or DA.

I shudder to think about how much an IG army would cost these days... especially a mech list.

I know I have been priced out, because I am lucky if I find a deal on Ebay for my price range. I would never be caught buying models new anymore... my wife would leave me (or demand an equal investment in jewelry). 40k has become a spectator sport for me... I couldn't afford to update my armies. I play a lot of RPGs (cheap) and computer games (mostly F2P) now.

I still doubt those numbers. $300 if you're a vet and you know exactly what you want from your army and it's a small elite army. But that is a very targeted demographic as it implies no extra purchases for any other options, local meta shifts, changed ideas and limited to very few armies. Usually only termy spam can get this low for cost. IG, necrons, sisters, tau, tyranid and space marine armies can put these costs all over the place depending on what type of army you want.

 Surtur wrote:

 FoxPhoenix135 wrote:

Riquende wrote:

 Ugavine wrote:
I personally get my value for money from the GW products I buy.

That's absolutely fine, good for you. It's entirely a personal thing as to whether you find value in a particular product at a particular price.

This whole thread is trying to convince me to be unhappy about something that I am happy with

Umm, no. It's really more about questioning whether GW can remain competitive in a market when they're priced higher than any competitor* and are no longer making the premium-quality products they could once point to.

Unfortunately it keeps getting sidetracked by Iraqi information ministers telling the world everything's fine because GW's cheaper than snowboarding. Or something.

* total price to play - ie for a new player who has to buy the rulebook, codices (or equivalent), and at least one 'full size' army

It's not cheaper than snowboarding.... A snowboard only runs you a couple hundred dollars max. Lift expenses might add up, but if you live in an area where you can hike a run yourself, then they are negligible. 40k still runs at MINIMUM $150+ if you wanted to play with undersized armies (Starter set, codex), likely at least 300+ If you want any semblance of a complete army. And then, you are railroaded into playing either chaos or DA. Heaven help you if you want to play something other than chaos or DA.

I shudder to think about how much an IG army would cost these days... especially a mech list.

I know I have been priced out, because I am lucky if I find a deal on Ebay for my price range. I would never be caught buying models new anymore... my wife would leave me (or demand an equal investment in jewelry). 40k has become a spectator sport for me... I couldn't afford to update my armies. I play a lot of RPGs (cheap) and computer games (mostly F2P) now.

I still doubt those numbers. $300 if you're a vet and you know exactly what you want from your army and it's a small elite army. But that is a very targeted demographic as it implies no extra purchases for any other options, local meta shifts, changed ideas and limited to very few armies. Usually only termy spam can get this low for cost. IG, necrons, sisters, tau, tyranid and space marine armies can put these costs all over the place depending on what type of army you want.

To add to this, there was once a thread where we compared army prices with the new price increase. For those of you who wouldn't bother to click the link, the average army would cost you $500, not including tools and paints.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/454189.page

Snowboarding was possibly a bad example. Insert supercar collecting, or something else crazily expensive.

Riquende wrote:
Snowboarding was possibly a bad example. Insert supercar collecting, or something else crazily expensive.

"GW: not quite as expensive as collecting super cars"

 Smacks wrote:

Riquende wrote:
Snowboarding was possibly a bad example. Insert supercar collecting, or something else crazily expensive.

"GW: not quite as expensive as collecting super cars"

Depends if you get in to Forgeworld.

The sad thing is that I don't think FW is that much more expensive compared to standard GW.

 Smacks wrote:

Riquende wrote:
Snowboarding was possibly a bad example. Insert supercar collecting, or something else crazily expensive.

"GW: not quite as expensive as collecting super cars"

GW: still cheaper than the NASA moon program