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So I'm working on a new conversion for my army, basically as of the latest source materials they've been hinting that the control the Tau have over other races isn't exactly just charismatic, and that there is something else at play especially with Water Caste Diplomats. My army, the 114th Dar'thul Assimilation Team is a ragtag band of Imperial Tau supporters mixed in with Tau regulars. I want to give them a Water Caste "Controller" figure to lead them. I'm trying to find more robed figures to potentially put the head of a Firewarrior team lead on or something with some modifications to make one.

Any advice? I don't even know where to begin with this project really.

I was considering something like:

Head:
http://www.letthedicedecide.co.uk/tau-empire-devilfish-pilot-311-p.asp
Bare head with antennae, looks cool, would require minor tweaks to make Water Caste instead of Fire
or
http://www.letthedicedecide.co.uk/tau-empire-fire-warrior-bare-head-292-p.asp
Same as above, would need antennae added
or
http://www.letthedicedecide.co.uk/tau-empire-fire-warrior-head-296-p.asp
My modded space marines have these helmets with the goggles filed off, and instead they're just flat helmets, I'm tempted to do the same thing for this guy with some extra antennae

Body:
http://www.letthedicedecide.co.uk/empire-battle-wizard-body-b-984-p.asp
Easy choice, cool robe, symbols not too out there, works, only issue is freaking finding one without having to register for a new bitz site..

Arms:
http://www.letthedicedecide.co.uk/tau-empire-fire-warrior-drone-controller-281-p.asp and custom Pulse Pistol
I like the remote control thing, looks like it fits the idea, however finding another arm is a pain
or
http://www.letthedicedecide.co.uk/tau-empire-devilfish-pilot-311-p.asp
The binoculars I like but I'm afraid they might not fit the robed body properly, I'd need to use green stuff to fill the arm gaps if there are any

Tau have no control on Imperial soldiers. And diplomats don't lead armies. That's the job of the Fire caste resp the officers of the human auxiliary troops. Maybe you should check what the water caste actually is.

 Kroothawk wrote:
Tau have no control on Imperial soldiers. And diplomats don't lead armies. That's the job of the Fire caste resp the officers of the human auxiliary troops.

Vespid leaders are controlled through the use of their helmets, which then are used to control the drones.

Its just an idea I'd like to explore for potentially controlling space marines under Tau alliance.

I'd maybe consider some of the Forgeworld Aircast guys as an alternative for the body, and think about crafting a cape from greenstuff



http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Warhammer-40000/Tau/TAU-ACCESSORIES/TAU-AIR-CASTE-PILOTS.html

It was something I had considered, the only issue is that drastically increases the core price of the model. I'd like to find a halfway between Fire Warrior buff and Air Caste thin if possible.

Also in regards to the Vespid Helmet (http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Vespid_Communion_Helm#.UOWnA6zQtQI) it explains why I was considering it for explaining the marines.

 Shadowclaimer wrote:
Vespid leaders are controlled through the use of their helmets, which then are used to control the drones.
Its just an idea I'd like to explore for potentially controlling space marines under Tau alliance.

1.) Even the Codex describes this as a vague idea, not as proven fact.
2.) Not even die-hard Tau-haters think that this works on humans or even Space Marines.
3.) Space Marines joining the Greater Good is on par with Chaos Grey Knights and female Space Marines: It will create an uproar from any of your opponents vaguely familiar with 40k background.
4.) If you read about Tau background, you will see that Water Caste never leads an army. This contradicts the strict separation of caste duties fundamental to Tau society.

You asked for feedback for your idea. If you don't like the feedback, it isn't necessarily my fault.

 Kroothawk wrote:
create an uproar from any of your opponents

Well, maybe not quite that bad, but, yeah, something that fairly completely contradicts fluff isn't going to be looked upon favorably.

Have to second Kroothawks statement that it will be frowned upon by many who take the fluff to heart, but honoustly; don't let that stop you

 Kroothawk wrote:

 Shadowclaimer wrote:
Vespid leaders are controlled through the use of their helmets, which then are used to control the drones.
Its just an idea I'd like to explore for potentially controlling space marines under Tau alliance.

1.) Even the Codex describes this as a vague idea, not as proven fact.
2.) Not even die-hard Tau-haters think that this works on humans or even Space Marines.
3.) Space Marines joining the Greater Good is on par with Chaos Grey Knights and female Space Marines: It will create an uproar from any of your opponents vaguely familiar with 40k background.
4.) If you read about Tau background, you will see that Water Caste never leads an army. This contradicts the strict separation of caste duties fundamental to Tau society.

You asked for feedback for your idea. If you don't like the feedback, it isn't necessarily my fault.

1) Read the new Deathwatch supplements, the Ordos Xenos directly believe that the helmets the Tau use on the Vespid hive-leads strictly show them the "Tau view of the world" and are actually being used to control them particularly.
2) As I said in another thread on this subject, I find it absurd that science is considered a joke when there's nothing proven to make space marines super-psychologically powerful yet they pick up a magical sword and boom all their ideals are gone. But no, months of drug treatments, brain washing, and technological tweaking in no way could influence or indoctrinate someone.. yea that's the crazy thing.. not magical space swords that simply being near make you instantly love Chaos basically..
3) I never said they were fighting for the Greater Good, just that they were under Tau control. I said the idea that they could eventually be fully indoctrinated I could see.
4) Water Caste never leads an army, I never said they were leading an army, they're just directing a minor group (as if they were drones). The Water Caste are managers, merchants, scientists, and ambassadors, having one on the battlefield controlling a prototype project by hand isn't that far fetched at all.

Try this bit about the idea of Water Caste, integration into the armed forces for Xenos is still primarily the Water Caste's duty.

The Tau Water Caste is made up of merchants, diplomats, and administrators. They are responsible for maintaining effective interaction between the castes, as well as communicating with and supervising the integration of alien species into the Tau Empire. Members of the Water Caste tend to be taller and more slender than other Tau, and their features are softer and more expressive. Water caste Tau will frequently adopt mannerisms and cultural habits of the races they deal with, although this is often done to promote communication with other races.

Water Caste members are bureaucrats, politicians, negotiators and administrators. They are the merchants and diplomats of the Tau Empire, moving in and around the other castes to ensure that Tau society functions smoothly, always in the service of the Greater Good. Water Caste members often accompany Tau expeditionary forces to negotiate safe conduct through alien star systems and smooth the passage of Tau merchants and colonists. Servants of the Imperium of Man should be aware that these Tau are exceptionally skilled at manipulating weak-willed individuals and every remark addressed to a member of the Water Caste must be carefully considered and phrased to prevent any sensitive information being divulged.

Would you complain to the same degree over an Earth Caste Engineer watching a new Battlesuit into battle?

The current rules has Tau and Space Marine as Battle Brothers, for such stupid and simple reasons that are all the way out there, yet the fact I tried to give vague credence and justification to make my army make senses makes ME a villain to the lore. Right. Shouldn't there be bigger causes to fight about? Non-Green Orks or Blue Blood Angel Sub-Chapters? Its insulting to me to assume I don't take the fluff to heart, that I'm not trying my best to make this work out in a logical manner instead of "LOL SPACE MARINE ALLIES", yet I'm being derided as a fool who deserves shaming over it.

Regardless, no amount of arguing is swaying this path, I want to make a Water Caste Assimilation Unit, I want help making him, you're welcome to go to the background forum and argue against it, but please don't continue derailing my thread, it'll just go on for pages and no real work will get done, I asked for advice in regards to the model. Until someone shows me a line that specifically states "Space Marines are psychologically programmed to never betray or join another side" or that the Water Caste has zero, absolutely zero, presence on a battlefield at any time, then I'll agree, but nothing I've done to date contradicts any direct fluff.

Next time you ask for advice for an idea, make it clear that everything but enthusiastic approval is considered derailing the thread.

Space marines in a Tau army is a classic fluff abomination that every new Tau player wants. Water cast don't have "something else at play" and I know of no fluff that hints that they have mind control powers over whatever enemy they want. If the Water Caste does not have mind controlled IG forces and still has to rely on people being converted ideologically to the greater good there is no way they are going to get Space Marines. This seems like a stretch at best and bad fanfiction at worst.

Also. Read your codex. Everything you asked for proving fluff wise this doesn't really happen is in there. Stop being an arse.

 Kroothawk wrote:
Next time you ask for advice for an idea, make it clear that everything but enthusiastic approval is considered derailing the thread.

Next time you come to a thread about painting or modeling, make sure to argue about painting or modeling, or if you're going to argue fluff at least provide the exact sources to back up your statements against it. I'd have no problem with it, but you came in here treating it like I was creating an absolute travesty to the Warhammer name, and stating my opponent's should basically be insulted if I did this, yet didn't provide any actual shutdown information about it, just vague statements. I'm sorry if I came across as hostile but I had this same mess on another site and I wanted to nip this in the bud before it continues for another 5-6 pages and everyone just forgets about the actual conversion.

I just read through the codex again last night, nothing to suggest water caste are never seen on a battlefield (just "rarely"), and read through the creation of a Space Marine and outside of indoctrination on creation nothing to suggest Space Marine cannot be turned, even it specifically states every Space Marine varies in mental strength and some falter as easily as normal men. As I said, at least I'm trying to give some reason for this stupid alliance rule for SM/Tau that Games Workshop gave us. Sorry I upset a bunch of SM players who give their run-of-the-mill Space Marines Matt Ward level mental powers and upset the Tau players who want their goody-goody two-shoes space weaboos to have nothing wicked about them.

Gotta make sure next time I try to vaguely justify something stupid Games Workshop does to make sure to insult armies no one plays apparently.

 ph34r wrote:
Space marines in a Tau army is a classic fluff abomination that every new Tau player wants. Water cast don't have "something else at play" and I know of no fluff that hints that they have mind control powers over whatever enemy they want. If the Water Caste does not have mind controlled IG forces and still has to rely on people being converted ideologically to the greater good there is no way they are going to get Space Marines. This seems like a stretch at best and bad fanfiction at worst.

Its easier to ideologically convert a full planet than it is to systematically drug, indoctrinate, brainwash, and technologically override each individual, also a lot less expensive. I'm just justifying a single squad out of this, its not like I'm running a full chapter that's been brainwashed.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 blood lance wrote:
Also. Read your codex. Everything you asked for proving fluff wise this doesn't really happen is in there. Stop being an arse.

Until someone shows me a line that specifically states "Space Marines are psychologically programmed to never betray or join another side" or that the Water Caste has zero, absolutely zero, presence on a battlefield at any time, then I'll agree, but nothing I've done to date contradicts any direct fluff.

Read above, I just said I just read through both codices last night and found nothing to suggest even slightly otherwise.

To reiterate, the three big arguments:
-Tau don't mind control
In the Deathwatch supplements and Tau Empire, they both suggest Vespids are being controlled by the Tau and programmed to their worldview. This is what I ran with since two source books suggesting it is pretty heavy.
-Space Marines don't break
The Space Marine codex and other areas specifically state Space Marines are indoctrinated upon creation, but after that they range in mental strength from deity-level to normal man, I ran with the idea that years of indoctrination, drugs, and implants could sway a space marine.
-Water Caste not on the battlefield
Rarely is the keyword here, Ethereal's also are stated to rarely be on the battlefield yet they're an available HQ choice.

=

I'm more frustrated because I came in here for help finding parts for a silly little conversion yet apparently insulted half the universe about it. I thank those that actually tried to give help, and hopefully I get more people who can provide some suggestions towards the original post.