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Made in us
Grim Rune Priest in the Eye of the Storm





Riverside CA

i have also found that the Power Maul is great for Imperial Guard. Now a Commissar with a Power Maul can wound a Ork on a 3+ rather than a 5+. I run my Guard Squads with a Commissar with a Power Maul and the Sergeant gets a Power Sword, though I have been thinking of giving the Sergeant a Power Axe.

Space Wolf Player Since 1989
My First Impression Threads:
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I am a Furry that plays with little Toy Soldiers; if you are taking me too seriously I am not the only one with Issues.

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Made in us
Sneaky Lictor






I can never see the lances being good on anything, even if you do have hit and run. Why not just take the mace/maul/blunt object?

The way I see it, you take sword for AP3, axe for S+1 AP2, or Maul for S+2 AP who cares.

I doubt you'd "finish" anything off with the lances, hit and run, only to get shot up next turn. Usually hit and runners are quite frail.

On building Tyranid army flow chart.

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No > Add More
Yes > No you don' t > Add more
 
   
Made in us
Grim Rune Priest in the Eye of the Storm





Riverside CA

The Lance is something that takes a little work to use, but I have done quite well with them. Like I said in an earlier post the Lance is great for duels. Now I do have a few rules I came up with them for using them successfully. This is also my general rules for my Captain and his Honor Guard.
1] Don’t Assault anything with a 2+ Save.
2] Pick on low wound models like Sergeants and lesser Characters like Chaplains or Librarians.

With my Space Wolves it is a different, I always team my Thunderlord up with two of thunder lards who are armed with a Thunder Hammer/Storm Shield and the other has a Power Fist and a Wolf Claw. My rule with them is just Waaaag at the nearest big threat.

Space Wolf Player Since 1989
My First Impression Threads:
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/727226.page;jsessionid=3BCA26863DCC17CF82F647B2839DA6E5

I am a Furry that plays with little Toy Soldiers; if you are taking me too seriously I am not the only one with Issues.

IEGA Web Site”: http://www.meetup.com/IEGA-InlandEmpireGamersAssociation/ 
   
Made in au
Boom! Leman Russ Commander





Brisbane, Australia


Martel732 wrote:First off, the linked article is wrong about power swords. They function at regular strength, not +1 STR.
You’re very right – an error because of Formatting, I’ve changed it.

Here is the way I see it:

Power axes:
Exactly what I thought.

Power sword:
It has a place, but only if you’re playing rock-paper-scissors
Power fist:
Unfortunate, isn’t it?

Power maul:
I also think that DC are one of the only squads that can successfully hide fists – if the squad is large enough, they can wrap around the fist so that they only have to pile in when it gets to I1. Against things like paladins, those 5~15 S8 AP2 attacks can really bring the hurt.
Power lance:
still don’t see why a power maul isn’t better.

Mostly, you agree with me, it seems.
As a person who’s run SM and BA deathstars (THSS termies with Vulkan and Death company with a reclusiarch), I can tell that although those 15 (usually 12 by the time I get to it.) S8 attacks can really hurt, but death company can bring 10 with full re-rolls.
The only way to deal with THSS terminators is weight of attacks. They are more afraid of 50 lasguns than 5 lascannons.


g0atsticks wrote:Power Lances should only be taken with units that have the hit and run special rule. this is the only advantage I can see with them.

Still don’t see it.

phoenix darkus wrote:I mostly agree with OP on his article but will add a twist:

Libby weapons: since Librarians don't have access to the PF, giving them an axe will help them wound some of those tougher multi-wound models and then you can throw in your Force power to insta-kill them.

I didn’t cover force weapons specifically. They’re a very different story.

TheLionOfTheForest wrote:Maybe a couple power lances on DC with JPs led by Dante. They get +1 str from furious charge and +1 str from the lance on the charge: ws5 str 6 ap3 A4 on charge. Pretty nasty. I guess you would need an apothecary just to accept challenges so Dante doesn't have to hide.

No. Death company should go mauls and fists.
HawaiiMatt wrote: At WS5, with FIVE attacks each on the charge, their isn't a 2nd round. I'd consider lances on a small deathcompany delivered by storm raven.

-Matt

Yes there is. Have you ever charged a unit of draigopaladins? Sure, you kill 7 of them. But then you’re fethed. (I’d still take mauls.)
Anpu42 wrote:Storm Shields and Power Weapons: Where the Power Maul is better than the Power Sword is just inflicting wounds even vs. Terminators. This is the weapon to take vs. Storm Shields. If half your hits don’t even wound a Terminator a 2+ or a 3++ isn’t going to make a difference. What you need is more chances for the Terminator to fail.
even moreso against multiple wound targets with a good invulnerable save – you get the I1 bonus.
Power Lance: Were I have been finding the best use for the Power Lance is High Attack models designed to issue challenges; like Company Champions and Blood Champions. I use one with my Blood Angles Honor Guard on the Blood Champion. I even have the Company Banner with then giving him 5 S6 AP3 Attacks on the opening Assault, this usually is enough to take out the Sergeant or what ever. Then the next run come up I just have the Captain Accept the Challenge [if any] with his 5 I5 S4 AP3 Lighting Claws. By that time there is usually not much left of the target of the assault.

I also use a Power Lance with one of my Thunderlords and this has worked well to. With him I have a Power Lance and a Power Axe to deal with any AP2 I run across, but so far the Axe has been a waist of points.

I can see what you’re saying here. It hasn’t convinced me that they’re useful, but it has convinced me that someone uses them to good effect.
You get a +1 in my book.
Andilus Greatsword wrote:
 jmurph wrote:
Well, Space Wolves are a bit spoiled in that we can also take Frost weapons for the additional +1S. This means we can take the AP3 weapons that are almost as good against lower saves as the Maul and the Axe is just as good but AP2, making it a nice terminator choice.

Generally, though, I find points are better invested in shooting.

Except that they're the same points cost as a power fist... I'd much rather take a regular power weapon or the fist for that cost.

Agreed.
Dr. Serling wrote:The power lance works good on two specific models in two specific models in two specific units. Both of which have hit and run.

1. Harlequin troupe masters-
I can dig that.
2. Hellion Helliarchs.
I don’t know about them. I’ll have to take your word for it. Do either of these units struggle after the charge?


It’d be pointless for me to restate my observations, but I’m very glad to see people don’t actually think Axes are the best thing ever. It is reassuring.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/01/04 22:29:31


 
   
Made in us
Executing Exarch





The Twilight Zone


Dr. Serling wrote:The power lance works good on two specific models in two specific models in two specific units. Both of which have hit and run.

1. Harlequin troupe masters-
I can dig that.
2. Hellion Helliarchs.
I don’t know about them. I’ll have to take your word for it. Do either of these units struggle after the charge?


It’d be pointless for me to restate my observations, but I’m very glad to see people don’t actually think Axes are the best thing ever. It is reassuring.


Harlequins rely on hitting like a freight train and overwhelming combat with a large number of rending attacks. They usually survive as they will be fortuned/do so much damage the return attacks dont do much. Hellions have a large number of attacks, but are even easier to kill with return hits. A harlistar can go toe to toe with most deathstars and come out victorious. Hellions are not a CC beatstick, but a mobile way to tie up a shooty unit or pick off something weakened by fire. Mauls are not bad for either squad, both can get better options than swords for free, and axes rob them of their strategy of getting the first shot.

I cant think of a single eldar/dark eldar model I would want an axe on. If I played an inquisition list, I would consider throwing them on crusaders. I3, S3 base and armed with a storm shield. Going last with weak hits, might as well make em count.

The most important rule of 40K-Page XVII of the 6th edition rulebook, the figure at the top right of the page. "Shake hands with your opponent and thank them for a good battle and fun experience." Then go out for a beer.
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Obviously, Eldar and DE care about init. They pay a lot for it. So the axe is not for them.

For perspective, my 1500 pt list has two power axes, one power sword and one force sword. I plan to shoot most things that are super tough, not try to beat it up with meqs.

As an aside, does GW sell power mauls? How does one model one? I've been proxying.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/01/05 00:12:07


 
   
Made in us
Lurking Gaunt





Martel732 wrote:
As an aside, does GW sell power mauls? How does one model one? I've been proxying.


Chaos terminators come with two power mauls in a box., and the Dark Angels upgrade sprue has a power armor mace on it.


   
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Boom! Leman Russ Commander





Brisbane, Australia

I use the 2+ invuln rods from the Grey knight box - they work a treat as power mauls.

 
   
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Longtime Dakkanaut




One place Lances are the best is when it is your only power weapon choice, which I think is the case for Rough Riders.
   
Made in gb
Junior Officer with Laspistol





barnowl wrote:
One place Lances are the best is when it is your only power weapon choice, which I think is the case for Rough Riders.


RRs don't get power lances. They have their own special lance that is 1 use only.


Star Trek taught me so much. Like, how you should accept people, whether they be black, white, Klingon or even female...

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Made in us
Grim Rune Priest in the Eye of the Storm





Riverside CA

 Griddlelol wrote:
barnowl wrote:
One place Lances are the best is when it is your only power weapon choice, which I think is the case for Rough Riders.


RRs don't get power lances. They have their own special lance that is 1 use only.

But the Sargents do.

Space Wolf Player Since 1989
My First Impression Threads:
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I am a Furry that plays with little Toy Soldiers; if you are taking me too seriously I am not the only one with Issues.

IEGA Web Site”: http://www.meetup.com/IEGA-InlandEmpireGamersAssociation/ 
   
Made in gb
Junior Officer with Laspistol





 Anpu42 wrote:
 Griddlelol wrote:
barnowl wrote:
One place Lances are the best is when it is your only power weapon choice, which I think is the case for Rough Riders.


RRs don't get power lances. They have their own special lance that is 1 use only.

But the Sargents do.


They are not the only option. They can take whatever power weapon they want.

To be fair it's irrelevant, who takes RRs anyway?


Star Trek taught me so much. Like, how you should accept people, whether they be black, white, Klingon or even female...

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Made in us
Stealthy Warhound Titan Princeps




Phoenix, AZ, USA

I find swords and mauls on DCA with axe wielding Crusaders to be good mix for dealing with most opposing units (MEQ get the swords, GEQ get the Mauls, and TEQ get the axes+all the other I6 attacks). Others will argue for a different mix of sword/axe on DCA, mauls on the Crusaders, but I like striking first when ever I can.

For lances, still not sure of a good use outside of Hit and Run squads (I would take lances on such a squad, if I bothered to take an HnR squad, which I don't).

addendum: As to AP2, my GKT now take a mix of Hammers and Halberds to achieve the same kind of AP:Init mix as I like to see on DCA/Crusader Hench-squads. This allows a decent number of AP2 attacks following a good number of I6 attacks, with or without psychic tricks of the trade.

SJ

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/01/07 00:17:27


“For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world.”
- Ephesians 6:12
 
   
Made in ca
Dour Wolf Priest with Iron Wolf Amulet






Canada

 Anpu42 wrote:
 Andilus Greatsword wrote:
 jmurph wrote:
Well, Space Wolves are a bit spoiled in that we can also take Frost weapons for the additional +1S. This means we can take the AP3 weapons that are almost as good against lower saves as the Maul and the Axe is just as good but AP2, making it a nice terminator choice.

Generally, though, I find points are better invested in shooting.

Except that they're the same points cost as a power fist... I'd much rather take a regular power weapon or the fist for that cost.

The advantage of the Frost Axe over the Power fist though is to get the axtra attack you must buy a Secons Specialist Weapon. With a Frost Axe the +1 Attack cost nothing.

Yes but who needs +1A when you're probably going to ID whatever you're attacking anyway?

   
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Nasty Nob on Warbike with Klaw




Stephens City, VA

Power Maul all day for me

   
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Devestating Grey Knight Dreadknight




My thought on axes is...why not take a fist instead? I'm thinking that for MEQ at least, most models that can take an axe can also take a fist.

Axe: +1 attack (maybe), +1 strength, AP2, I1
Fist: double strength (+4 for MEQ), AP2, I1

There is the potential for an extra attack with the axe, but you're still I1. The fist gives you instant death capabilities and the ability to destroy vehicles. I know the points cost depends on the unit, but if you're going for versatility I personally think the fist has more potential.


Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment. 
   
Made in ca
Dour Wolf Priest with Iron Wolf Amulet






Canada

 greyknight12 wrote:
My thought on axes is...why not take a fist instead? I'm thinking that for MEQ at least, most models that can take an axe can also take a fist.

Axe: +1 attack (maybe), +1 strength, AP2, I1
Fist: double strength (+4 for MEQ), AP2, I1

There is the potential for an extra attack with the axe, but you're still I1. The fist gives you instant death capabilities and the ability to destroy vehicles. I know the points cost depends on the unit, but if you're going for versatility I personally think the fist has more potential.


It does, but it's also generally another +10pts, which adds up if you're running multiples of the same model.

   
 
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