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Maybe the tau are just better at it.

nomotog wrote:
Maybe the tau are just better at it.

No. They're not better at it; they just don't know better. The Imperium and the Adeptus Mechanicus have the lessons of the Old Night and as such know better than to mess around with genes.

Primarchs, Space Marines, and Custodians are genetically-engineered, but their gene-codes were done by the Emperor. Since he's the Emperor, he's obviously exempt from such restrictions.

 Kroothawk wrote:

And all Primarchs use pheromones to make humans submissive...

"Pheromones? Don't joke around, upstart fishes of T'au. Why would we use such a primitive, animalistic method? Its psychic in nature, not that brute primitives with no understanding of true power like you and your misbegotten kind would ever understand."

- Lord Inquisitor Varus Sein, Ordo Xenos (I made him up )

See, Humans can act like Eldar too

...the Space Marine helmets are actually used for absolute mind control, that's why sergeants and captains don't like to wear them

The helmets are just helmets. But Space Marines regularly undergo psycho-hypnotic indoctrination. But hey, at least we admit we do it

 Admiral Valerian wrote:

 Eetion wrote:

In the context of the setting, the tau wouldn't have been able to backwards engineer a warp 'hop' without navigators...

Its slow and inefficient. Tau Warp technology is to Mankind as Mankind's Warp technology is to the Eldar.

...unify the diverse races of their Empire, and make miraculous scientific progress. Yet they make all these advances regardless The Tau epitomise the the hope and Scientifically sound progress.

Most Humans see no interest. Eldar and Dark Eldar are more likely to take advantage of the situation and use the Tau as pawns or in the case of the latter, as slaves and playthings. Orks, Tyranids, and Necrons have no interest either.

There is no reason at all why they wouldn't be able to treat it as any other corrupt genetic disorder. Difficult certainly, but by no means impossible. After all its not like Chaos mutation, where it tends to be the soul that's the problem as well as the physical.

Warp-based diseases may be cured because Isha leaks insider information to mortals. If the Eldar are to be believed, of course.

In the case of the genestealers its not the case, entirely physical, and therefore potentially curable.

If Tyranid genetics were that easy to unravel, the Ordo Xenos would have done it by now.

The point is that the Tau can and do make progress. Yes their warp drives are slow and inefficient. The fact remains their next gen ships are better and faster. They can navigate stars without ever immersing themselves into the warp, all without navigators.

Progress is never quick and simple but requires continuous research and development.

As for genestealer genetic code, the Ordo Xenos probably just shoot them. I'm noy claiming the Tau would have a easy job doing it. But the fact is they are trying, which does not mean they will be a failure, or successful... But its certainly not impossible.

 Eetion wrote:


Progress is never quick and simple but requires continuous research and development.

I hope they're ready for an AI rebellion then. Or worse, Chaos corruption of their AI and rebellion. In either case, they're just asking for an Imperial Crusade or the Eldar to intervene.

As for genestealer genetic code, the Ordo Xenos probably just shoot them. I'm noy claiming the Tau would have a easy job doing it. But the fact is they are trying, which does not mean they will be a failure, or successful... But its certainly not impossible.

It will fail. And the Ordo Xenos holds experiments and studies on every alien species. That's part of what they do; and they're very good at it, because the ones doing the research and dissections have no sympathy to the ones being studied.

Just because the humans suffered an AI rebellion does not mean its will happen to all species. If memory served the eldar barely lifted a finger having all their tasks done for them prior to the fall.

The Tau for the moment have a clearly defined caste structure, their AI seem to concentrate on assistance of those castes, not replace them as the iron men did. Drones can fight, but more often than not its slaved to a Tau controller, or very rudimentry.

It wouldn't surprise me if they had a obey an ethreal above all others command code also.

Just because the ordo xenos goes further, does not mean they know better, the technology available to each is different, and they are still hampered by belief in the machine god for further advancement. Whereas the Tau hit a research 'wall' they have no problems inventing a new machine to overcome it.

 Eetion wrote:
If memory served the eldar barely lifted a finger having all their tasks done for them prior to the fall.

Those machines weren't AI. From what the text regarding the Fall of the Eldar implied, their machines simply responded to the subconscious psychic desires of their masters.

The Tau for the moment have a clearly defined caste structure, their AI seem to concentrate on assistance of those castes, not replace them as the iron men did. Drones can fight, but more often than not its slaved to a Tau controller, or very rudimentry.

It wouldn't surprise me if they had a obey an ethreal above all others command code also.

As I recall, the Men of Iron were apparently corrupted by Chaos, hence their rebellion.

Just because the ordo xenos goes further, does not mean they know better, the technology available to each is different, and they are still hampered by belief in the machine god for further advancement. Whereas the Tau hit a research 'wall' they have no problems inventing a new machine to overcome it.

Not the Inquisition. Machine God or not, if you don't do what the Inquisitors/Lord Inquisitors tell you to, certain Tech Priests might find themselves floating home. Or worse.

 Admiral Valerian wrote:

 Eetion wrote:
If memory served the eldar barely lifted a finger having all their tasks done for them prior to the fall.

Those machines weren't AI. From what the text regarding the Fall of the Eldar implied, their machines simply responded to the subconscious psychic desires of their masters.

The Tau for the moment have a clearly defined caste structure, their AI seem to concentrate on assistance of those castes, not replace them as the iron men did. Drones can fight, but more often than not its slaved to a Tau controller, or very rudimentry.

It wouldn't surprise me if they had a obey an ethreal above all others command code also.

As I recall, the Men of Iron were apparently corrupted by Chaos, hence their rebellion.

Just because the ordo xenos goes further, does not mean they know better, the technology available to each is different, and they are still hampered by belief in the machine god for further advancement. Whereas the Tau hit a research 'wall' they have no problems inventing a new machine to overcome it.

Not the Inquisition. Machine God or not, if you don't do what the Inquisitors/Lord Inquisitors tell you to, certain Tech Priests might find themselves floating home. Or worse.

The inquisitor can shoot as many as he likes. It doesn't change the capabilities of the $echanicum. Innovation is all but gone from the Imperium. Somethings can be backwards engineered, others adapted both of which may be tech heresy. Inventing something new without ideally an STC or a variant machine to modify is extremely rare.
Its easier for the ordo to execute than cure in these circumstances.

I really can't see the ordo researching a cure at any rate. A weapon certainly... Not a cure.

...

...

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Did you even write anything? Or did you just quote me for no particular reason?

 Admiral Valerian wrote:
...

...

...

Did you even write anything? Or did you just quote me for no particular reason?

Sorry my phone bodged up, and didn't save what I'd wrote as I lost connection.

Its edited now.

*cough*

Right...yes, I know the Imperium frowns on innovation and would more likely be to execute infested Humans rather than cure them, but its given that Human genetic technology is capable of grafting a demi-god's (a Primarchs) DNA into an ordinary Human, even without innovation or creativity, Human genetic technology is well ahead of the Tau's. Even if they don't actively research a cure, if the Ordo Xenos' rules a cure as impossible, then it most likely is.

Note that I'm taking a different argument here: I know there's no material saying the Ordo Xenos tried to make a cure and declared it impossible, but its only common sense to assume they would analyze Genestealer encoding and learn as much as they can. And if they can't find a weakness to exploit (which the Inquisition is ruthlessly capable of doing), its unlikely the Tau can either.

EDIT: This is the basis for my argument: the Eldar don't innovate either, but their technology is millions of years ahead of the Humans. The same goes for the Necrons. By that same reasoning, Human technology, while non-innovative, is still tens of thousands of years ahead of the Tau, and has traits adapted from the Eldar (I imagine Human psychic technology as based on what few Eldar technologies that could be adapted) and Necrons (the Void Dragon is supposedly imprisoned beneath Mars and also supposedly the source for both the technology of the Golden Age and the Mechnanicum).

With the IoM, just because they can do one thing dosen't mean they can do other things in the same grouping. It's just how things work with them.

I admit I did kind of roll my eyes when I read the passage about gene manipulation. It wasn't something I would have written, but it's by no means impossible for the tau to be curing gene stealer infection.

 Admiral Valerian wrote:
*cough*

Right...yes, I know the Imperium frowns on innovation and would more likely be to execute infested Humans rather than cure them, but its given that Human genetic technology is capable of grafting a demi-god's (a Primarchs) DNA into an ordinary Human, even without innovation or creativity, Human genetic technology is well ahead of the Tau's. Even if they don't actively research a cure, if the Ordo Xenos' rules a cure as impossible, then it most likely is.

Note that I'm taking a different argument here: I know there's no material saying the Ordo Xenos tried to make a cure and declared it impossible, but its only common sense to assume they would analyze Genestealer encoding and learn as much as they can. And if they can't find a weakness to exploit (which the Inquisition is ruthlessly capable of doing), its unlikely the Tau can either.

EDIT: This is the basis for my argument: the Eldar don't innovate either, but their technology is millions of years ahead of the Humans. The same goes for the Necrons. By that same reasoning, Human technology, while non-innovative, is still tens of thousands of years ahead of the Tau, and has traits adapted from the Eldar (I imagine Human psychic technology as based on what few Eldar technologies that could be adapted) and Necrons (the Void Dragon is supposedly imprisoned beneath Mars and also supposedly the source for both the technology of the Golden Age and the Mechnanicum).

With regard to human genetic manipulation. The primarchs and creating the Astartes was discovered 10 millenia ago by the emperor. Their creation lost. They just recycle that original work. Its hardly innovative. Just plodding along really. At their height maybe the best minds could have found a cure. But at present, I doubt they would try, maybe just a new weaponised virus/gas against them instead of a cure.

The Tau on the other hand. We really don't know the extent of their genetic talents, supersoldiers no... Maybe medicine however is much more advanced in their diagnostic and treatment. Who knows as we have little to go on.
But the Tau are innovators.
They will keep on trying and inventing what they need.

The Imperium is stagnant. If they can't solve a problem with what they have now. Its unlikely they will ever solve that problem. Just write it off as impossible and purge any affected by the problem... Or leave them to die.

They key behind the Tau is that they actually follow the scientific method. They have developed technology in a few thousand years that is competitive with humanity, even if they aren't as advanced yet.

It reminds me of Fall of Reach where Dr. Halsley realizes that the Covenant technology isn't innovative but adapted. She muses that if humanity is given enough time they could surpass the functionally frozen alien technology.

I view the Tau in much the same way. Give them time, and if they are not wiped out, they will surpass humanity.

 Shlazaor wrote:

I view the Tau in much the same way. Give them time, and if they are not wiped out, they will surpass humanity.

That's just it, isn't it? Right now, with the Imperium using them as a buffer zone against the 'nids, Orks massing along their borders, and Dark Eldar smelling fresh blood, how much longer are they gonna survive?

They are going to survive, because the way less effecient imperium survives against similiar threats proportional to their size.

 Admiral Valerian wrote:

 Shlazaor wrote:

I view the Tau in much the same way. Give them time, and if they are not wiped out, they will surpass humanity.

That's just it, isn't it? Right now, with the Imperium using them as a buffer zone against the 'nids, Orks massing along their borders, and Dark Eldar smelling fresh blood, how much longer are they gonna survive?

That's more of a meta question really. The tau will last as long as they sell models. In fluff they are still expanding, so it's not like they will fall anytime soon.

 Admiral Valerian wrote:

 Shlazaor wrote:

I view the Tau in much the same way. Give them time, and if they are not wiped out, they will surpass humanity.

That's just it, isn't it? Right now, with the Imperium using them as a buffer zone against the 'nids, Orks massing along their borders, and Dark Eldar smelling fresh blood, how much longer are they gonna survive?

I would say they have a solid chance. The Imperium buffer will degrade over thousands of years. In the best case scenario it will be in direct proportion to the expansion of the Tau.

The Tau two biggest problems are.

1. Macro
2. Space fleets.

The first issue with gradually decrease in the long term as long as there is no overwhelming paradigm shift in the galactic war. The second issue is already being fixed in the short term with downright stellar space innovations.

 Shlazaor wrote:


The first issue with gradually decrease in the long term as long as there is no overwhelming paradigm shift in the galactic war.

Lots of things could change that:

1) The Emperor dies and is either resurrected/reborn/or simply dies. In the first two, the Imperium becomes resurgent. In the latter, its only a matter of time before the Forces of Chaos pour forth and subdue the fallen Imperium. I do not think Tau would find Chaos very receptive to the Greater Good (personally though joining Chaos is more attractive than submitting to the Tau ).

2) The Tyranids begin a full-scale invasion of the galaxy. Game over for everyone, except maybe for the Eldar, the Dark Eldar, and the 'crons.

3) The War of Dakka escalates into an Armageddon-level crisis. Whoever wins, the Imperium is sure to take advantage of the situation.

4) Imotekh or any other Necron Overlord decide to invade and subdue the Tau Empire before they become a real threat to the Necrons.

IMHO, the fourth is the most likely situation. The Tau are undoubtedly the youngest and therefore most adaptable space-faring race in the galaxy; the Necron Dynasties will want to neutralize them as quickly as possible so they can concentrate further efforts against the elder races (Orks, Eldar, Humans).

Yet the imperium may face the following

End by Black crusade, Nids, necrons, Orks, or any other multitude of factions. Any of those reasonings that can be applied to the Tau has to apply to the Imperium also.

The Tau at least are small enough empire to be extremely unlikely they are the first to contact such an foe. Being that the imperium surrounds it on all sides.

But the survivability of each faction is not the issue as to the attraction of the Greater good. We have gone a little off topic viewing things through our 'Gods eye' overview of the galaxy.
It does beg the question that would the imperium allow the war of dakka to continue, if orks roll through the tau then its the Imperium that will suffer at the hands of a full scale waaagh next?

 Eetion wrote:

It does beg the question that would the imperium allow the war of dakka to continue, if orks roll through the tau then its the Imperium that will suffer at the hands of a full scale waaagh next?

They'd probably intervene and turn it into something like Octarius, wherein the Tau and the Orks grind each other into paste.

And as I've said, I believe the ultimate downfall of Tau will come from the Necrons. A young, adaptive, and flexible species? The Necrons aren't fools; better to cull the Tau before they can become a threat.

EDIT: On-topic, this might be surprising given I'm an Imperial fan but, I'd sooner join Chaos than submit to the Tau. Whether its the distant Emperor on Ancient Terra or the Gods of Chaos in the depths of the Immaterium, they're much more attractive prospects than the Tau. Why?

1) The Emperor is undoubtedly a tyrant who cares little for the common masses so long as Mankind as a whole prospers. So what? At least he's Human. I'd sooner be ruled by Human despots/tyrants than benevolent aliens.

2) The Gods of Chaos...serve them well, and the rewards will be great. While I'd still put the Imperium first, in its absence, the Gods of Chaos still offer better than any alien.

And I'm a chaos nut instead of a tau fan although I do have a soft spot for them.

But I'd say Tau is my first choice, decent standard of living, not used as a mindless drone or a brutalised dreg, what's not to like, so my tithe/taxes get shipped off world to an alien world instead of an imperial one. Makes no odds to me, I just have the fancy new farming/mining machinery to make my life easier.
Then imperial/Chaos, its a bit blurry, better chance of freedom but also been brutally beaten by a psychotic overlord with Chaos.

As to the necron question, the tau are small fish at the moment, the decisive military power at the moments are orks, imperial and nids, Tau probably are on the to do list compared to the big hitters.

 Eetion wrote:


As to the necron question, the tau are small fish at the moment, the decisive military power at the moments are orks, imperial and nids, Tau probably are on the to do list compared to the big hitters.

I disagree. The Necrons are the eldest race in the galaxy, but were younger than the Old Ones. They know all too well (whether themselves or the Eldar as an example) that its best not to give a young and adaptive species room to grow. The Humans and the Eldar, while more powerful certainly at the moment, are less of a danger in this light, since they've 'outgrown the vigor of youth', so to speak.

Even if this were the case, they have to identify the Tau as a young energetic race. This may take some time, it may be quick, it may be centuries.
But until then its not the Tau that will be the aggrssors to any necron revival.

 Shlazaor wrote:
They key behind the Tau is that they actually follow the scientific method. They have developed technology in a few thousand years that is competitive with humanity, even if they aren't as advanced yet.

It reminds me of Fall of Reach where Dr. Halsley realizes that the Covenant technology isn't innovative but adapted. She muses that if humanity is given enough time they could surpass the functionally frozen alien technology.

I view the Tau in much the same way. Give them time, and if they are not wiped out, they will surpass humanity.

Speculation.

There isn't a lot of point in arguing that the Tau could or would do anything since the only things they could or would do are what the writers put to the pen. You cannot build an arguement for the Tau on the grounds that "they have potential" to advance or grow beyond their current state. That's entire meta.

What you can use are bits of lore current written to reaech conclusions.

As per my original post here, the Tau are in fact, NOT more advanced than the Imperium. In the conventional Sci-Fi sense, it's easy to assume that if one side is using projectile rounds and the other side is shooting lasers than one is more advanced than the other. But that's simply not the case. Logic has taught us IRL that there really is no replacement lined for what we currently use. And it's not because we can't make anything better... it's because what we currently use works perfectly well.

The basic technology of the Imperium is vaired, but look at the Lasgun. Standard issue for TRILLIONS of Guardsman... and it's a damned laser rifle. They have "digital weapons" that can take the form of anything from jewelry to (in the case of Commisar Yarrick) an artificial eye. And they shoot fancy lasers as well.

You then look at things like Iron Halos, and understand how they produce a matrix of active atomic particles that inercept and absorb incoming attacks. And now with the new DA codex its revealed that mankind also has "refractor" fields or "displacers" fields that litterally deflect incoming fire of both physical and energy weapons.

And those are just parts of human technology that we use to shoot or keep from being shot at.

We are the only race other than the eldar that have the technological abilty to destroy a planet (exterminatus).

The Tau are "adanced" only in the sense that they are well equiped for how young they are... they've moved along faster than humans did for sure, but they are no where near our level of technology.

En Excelsis wrote:

 Shlazaor wrote:
They key behind the Tau is that they actually follow the scientific method. They have developed technology in a few thousand years that is competitive with humanity, even if they aren't as advanced yet.

It reminds me of Fall of Reach where Dr. Halsley realizes that the Covenant technology isn't innovative but adapted. She muses that if humanity is given enough time they could surpass the functionally frozen alien technology.

I view the Tau in much the same way. Give them time, and if they are not wiped out, they will surpass humanity.

Speculation.

There isn't a lot of point in arguing that the Tau could or would do anything since the only things they could or would do are what the writers put to the pen. You cannot build an arguement for the Tau on the grounds that "they have potential" to advance or grow beyond their current state. That's entire meta.

What you can use are bits of lore current written to reaech conclusions.

As per my original post here, the Tau are in fact, NOT more advanced than the Imperium. In the conventional Sci-Fi sense, it's easy to assume that if one side is using projectile rounds and the other side is shooting lasers than one is more advanced than the other. But that's simply not the case. Logic has taught us IRL that there really is no replacement lined for what we currently use. And it's not because we can't make anything better... it's because what we currently use works perfectly well.

The basic technology of the Imperium is vaired, but look at the Lasgun. Standard issue for TRILLIONS of Guardsman... and it's a damned laser rifle. They have "digital weapons" that can take the form of anything from jewelry to (in the case of Commisar Yarrick) an artificial eye. And they shoot fancy lasers as well.

You then look at things like Iron Halos, and understand how they produce a matrix of active atomic particles that inercept and absorb incoming attacks. And now with the new DA codex its revealed that mankind also has "refractor" fields or "displacers" fields that litterally deflect incoming fire of both physical and energy weapons.

And those are just parts of human technology that we use to shoot or keep from being shot at.

We are the only race other than the eldar that have the technological abilty to destroy a planet (exterminatus).

The Tau are "adanced" only in the sense that they are well equiped for how young they are... they've moved along faster than humans did for sure, but they are no where near our level of technology.

I bolded the relevant part in my post. I will try to not sound snappy but it's hard to respond to this post when it is a long version of what I literally just said.

What you can use are bits of lore current written to reaech conclusions.

Reread my post. That is exactly what I did.

Certainly high end imperial technology is more sophisticated. Some human worlds use flint lock muskets and cross bows.
Tau technology is uniform across their Empire.

The standard small arm (we can assume more due to game mechanics) is longer renged and better stopping power. Than ts Imperial equivalent small arm, (let's not forget it is a plasma pulse also). Its plasma weaponry although lacking strength compared to its imperial equivalent isn't as prone to overheating. Its Trooper armour seems to be on a par with Carapace armour, a fancy piece of kit for most imperial organisations outside the Soriatas or astartes.
Its space fleet has continued to evolve and improve, its missiles( torpedoes) outclassing the imperial navys standard equivalent.

As for exterminatus, the tau are looking for territory, exterminating what they plan to colonise is foolish. It does not mean they don't have the technology to do so.


I agree high tech imperial kit will generrally be superior, but the uniformity and progression of the Tau has not been described as slowing down, with the likes of the rail rifle beginning to roll out. Showing a progress that already in some areas far exceeding the weaponry the IoM can produce for standard equipment.

It can be presumed the same could hold true for other lines of equipment. Mining and farming machines for example, sure the iom might have a fancy piece of kit, but I bet its rare and I bet the standard kit of the tau is better. Nothing to back that up however.

 Shlazaor wrote:

Reread my post. That is exactly what I did.

My apologies. My post was worded poorly. What I meant to reference as speculation was only your last statement about giving the Tau time...

The rest of your post I largely agreed with and was just elaborating on why. Sorry if that sounded different than I intended.

Certainly high end imperial technology is more sophisticated. Some human worlds use flint lock muskets and cross bows.
Tau technology is uniform across their Empire.

The standard small arm (we can assume more due to game mechanics) is longer renged and better stopping power. Than ts Imperial equivalent small arm, (let's not forget it is a plasma pulse also). Its plasma weaponry although lacking strength compared to its imperial equivalent isn't as prone to overheating. Its Trooper armour seems to be on a par with Carapace armour, a fancy piece of kit for most imperial organisations outside the Soriatas or astartes.
Its space fleet has continued to evolve and improve, its missiles( torpedoes) outclassing the imperial navys standard equivalent.

As for exterminatus, the tau are looking for territory, exterminating what they plan to colonise is foolish. It does not mean they don't have the technology to do so.


I agree high tech imperial kit will generrally be superior, but the uniformity and progression of the Tau has not been described as slowing down, with the likes of the rail rifle beginning to roll out. Showing a progress that already in some areas far exceeding the weaponry the IoM can produce for standard equipment.

It can be presumed the same could hold true for other lines of equipment. Mining and farming machines for example, sure the iom might have a fancy piece of kit, but I bet its rare and I bet the standard kit of the tau is better. Nothing to back that up however.

It's very true that not all worlds in the IoM are uniform in technology. Some of the more "backwater" worlds are probably quite primitive (sometimes intentionally kept at that level for recruitment purposes of certain SM Chapters). However the tech on a given Forge World is probably quite advanced depending on what that particular world produces.

Also, as it pertains to Plasma Weapons... each race as a take on it. It's always a bit of a leap in logic to convert fluff or lore into a rule for play, or vice versa, but sometimes that is required.

Human Plasma (S7 AP2 - Rapid Fire)
Eldar Plasma (S6 AP2 - 2 shots)
Tau Plasma (S6 AP2 - Rapid Fire)
Dark Eldar Plasma (S5 AP2 - 3 shots)

Now, per the description of the plasma weapons in most codices, there is a cooled gel-like liquid housed in a chamber near a fuel cell that "ingites" the gel just prior to the weapon discharging. The ignited gel has a short half life, hence the limited range before the gel is consumed and effectively burns out.

Per ... physics... the hotter a compound burns, the more quickly it is consumed. Thus, it is likely that the Dark Eldar have the "coolest" plasma burning temp (S5), which is more stable and doesn't "get hot", but can be fired more rapidly, allowing 3 shots. The Eldar/Tau prefer a happy middle ground and their plasma is warmer, and still "stable" enough to fire1-2 times (S6). The IoM simply fires the hottest plasma to do the most damage per shot, but the risk incurred is that it can overheat or "get hot".

I don't think that the Imperium couldn't necessarily produce a cooler burning plasma... it's just that to them it's more important to do that greater damage per shot, and if it overheats... who cares? What is the life of 1 guardsman or soldier worth in the long run if that high-powered shots removes a more dangerous target...

As for the mining equipment and general use technology... it will be difficult to paint a picture in favor of either race since so little information is available about the daily life of a normal citizen in either culture.

I would also like to point out that "The Tau" are not solely responsible for the armaments of their militant bodies. It clearly states that the Tau Coalition requires different "tributes" from the varied races it invites, conquers, or otherwise subdues. Some races provide soldiers (Kroot / Vespid). Some provide information, technology, manufacturing abilities, ships, and so on. The Tau as a species are not any greater than humans... in fact quite the opposite. However, they are playing nice with enough other races that they can reap benefits in a timely fashion.

This can also be seen in the IoM. Eldar do (extremely infrequently) interact with humans nonviolently. If I recall correctly there is a single Eldar in one of the higher ranking organizations (Inquisitorial High Council or some such... not sure which). As well, the Inquisition frequently interacts with Aliens and keeps it completely secret from the rest of humanity (Jokearo for example being the techno-smiths of the Grey Knights since the Inquisition doesn't want the Ad-Mech involved).

So exploding guns. It isn't a bug, it's a feature. I always kind of hate that argument. If the IoM could make safe plasma, then wouldn't we see it? It's not just that they don't care about their guardsmen. Everyone has exploidy plasma. I don't think the unsafe nature is an actual choice. Just something they have to deal with because a lot of there guns are old and poorly implemented.

Ok going back to OP question is that they are young and naive race that has yet to come across the real horrors of the galaxy. They have yet to gain the attention of chaos or necrons, who would love to have their way with them. The average human is a follower of the God-Emperor and the closer you get to earth the more devot the followers become. Those on the Eastern Fringen who are the farthest away from earth are the most likely to jump ship for lack of faith or no faith at all(the later unlikely though from having no faith) and do not know the whole story as to how humantiy came to the point they are now. If they did know they would shoot the Tau on sight. The funny thing is that the Tau need humantiy to survive if they want to survive. For if humantiy dies then Chaos, Necrons, Orks, Tyriands, and whatever else is out there is going striaght for them. The tau have also yet to face a cataclysm like the Fall of the Eldar or the rebellion of the Men of Iron (who only rebeled against humantiy because they were coroupted by chaos, before mankind was in the eyes of chaos), from what I can tell all the races (expect orks and nids) have suffered some kind of fall from grace, but very few have gotten back on their feet.

As for tech humantiy has yet to find a working STC if they did a lot of other races besides the Tau would be going ah . The tau are able to be more standard with their equipment because their empire is so small. Also the tau have used tech from other races so all of what they have is not something they thought up. The Tau were also traped by a warp storm before the IOM could wipe them out when they still were cavemen. Now warp storms have been know to alter time ( if i remeber correctly) so the tau home world could have advanced millions of years outside of real time(this is what I believe for it takes a long time to go from cavemen to space travelers).

Now the tau really add to this game, but let us not forget that this is a Grim Dark Future and in the Grim Dark Future there is no such thing as progress there is only war.

A few questions of mine.

First. Where does it say that Tau space ships are better than IOM's at speed when they cannot use the webway or the warp(not very well at least)?

Second. Why do people always believe that the tau are as/more advanced than the IOM? I get that they have some cool tech, but its not that good its a first shoot first kill and if that doesn't work oh . I also understand that the IOM has not made any progress at all to move forward(they have good reason Men of Iron), but when they pull stuff from the STCs everyone wakes up.

 Gunhead1 wrote:
Ok going back to OP question is that they are young and naive race that has yet to come across the real horrors of the galaxy. They have yet to gain the attention of chaos or necrons, who would love to have their way with them. The average human is a follower of the God-Emperor and the closer you get to earth the more devot the followers become. Those on the Eastern Fringen who are the farthest away from earth are the most likely to jump ship for lack of faith or no faith at all(the later unlikely though from having no faith) and do not know the whole story as to how humantiy came to the point they are now. If they did know they would shoot the Tau on sight. The funny thing is that the Tau need humantiy to survive if they want to survive. For if humantiy dies then Chaos, Necrons, Orks, Tyriands, and whatever else is out there is going striaght for them. The tau have also yet to face a cataclysm like the Fall of the Eldar or the rebellion of the Men of Iron (who only rebeled against humantiy because they were coroupted by chaos, before mankind was in the eyes of chaos), from what I can tell all the races (expect orks and nids) have suffered some kind of fall from grace, but very few have gotten back on their feet.

As for tech humantiy has yet to find a working STC if they did a lot of other races besides the Tau would be going ah . The tau are able to be more standard with their equipment because their empire is so small. Also the tau have used tech from other races so all of what they have is not something they thought up. The Tau were also traped by a warp storm before the IOM could wipe them out when they still were cavemen. Now warp storms have been know to alter time ( if i remeber correctly) so the tau home world could have advanced millions of years outside of real time(this is what I believe for it takes a long time to go from cavemen to space travelers).

Now the tau really add to this game, but let us not forget that this is a Grim Dark Future and in the Grim Dark Future there is no such thing as progress there is only war.

A few questions of mine.

First. Where does it say that Tau space ships are better than IOM's at speed when they cannot use the webway or the warp(not very well at least)?

Second. Why do people always believe that the tau are as/more advanced than the IOM? I get that they have some cool tech, but its not that good its a first shoot first kill and if that doesn't work oh . I also understand that the IOM has not made any progress at all to move forward(they have good reason Men of Iron), but when they pull stuff from the STCs everyone wakes up.

1. There is progress. There is just not progress for the Imperium of Man. Exhibit A: Mantis Missile Destroyer

2. No one believes the Tau have the most advanced tech. I'm not trying to sound snarky here but if you read any of the last dozen posts you'd have noticed that.

3. As for the prevalence of tech I think Excelsis is missing out on a better arguement. The Imperium is vastly superior in size to the Tau Empire. It's easy to be uniform when there aren't that many of you. That being said Eetion is probably correct in that technology would be inevitably be more uniform as the Tau expanded than it is in the Imperium of Man.

4. The Tau are also advancing in the right direction. Refer to the Mantis Missile Destroyer in point one. Highly mobile, fast, versatile, powerful and space worthy. That is the exact direction of warfare the Tau should be developing.