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So I've read over the rules on page 74-76 in the core rule book but a YouTube video I just viewed had me re-checking the rules to clarify something one way or another. Essentially I have always done the following when attempting to take out a vehicle:

Roll to hit
Roll to pen
Allow cover saves
Damage roll

The video was saying it was in this order:

Roll to hit
Allow cover saves
Roll to pen
Damage roll

Did I miss this somewhere in the book? If it is explicitly spelled out this way could someone be so kind as to provide me with a page number for clarification? I've always played it, in all cases, where you roll to hit, roll to pen/wound, armor/cover saves, remove a model/roll for vehicle damage. To change the order of the cover save, allowing it to happen before the penetration roll seems kind of like taking armor/cover saves before you've actually wounded infantry, just doesn't seem to make sense to me.

Thanks in advance.

 Jstncloud wrote:
So I've read over the rules on page 74-76 in the core rule book but a YouTube video I just viewed had me re-checking the rules to clarify something one way or another. Essentially I have always done the following when attempting to take out a vehicle:

Roll to hit
Roll to pen
Allow cover saves
Damage roll

The video was saying it was in this order:

Roll to hit
Allow cover saves
Roll to pen
Damage roll

Did I miss this somewhere in the book? If it is explicitly spelled out this way could someone be so kind as to provide me with a page number for clarification? I've always played it, in all cases, where you roll to hit, roll to pen/wound, armor/cover saves, remove a model/roll for vehicle damage. To change the order of the cover save, allowing it to happen before the penetration roll seems kind of like taking armor/cover saves before you've actually wounded infantry, just doesn't seem to make sense to me.

Thanks in advance.

Were they shooting at a flyer?

The video was in correct.

The order is always Roll to Hit, roll to glance/Pen, roll any saves for the glances/pens, apply results. For a glance you lose a Hull Point, for a Pen you lose a Hull Point and then roll on the damage chart.

Indeed. If shooting at a Zooming Flyer then you elect to Evade AFTER rolls to hit, but you still take cover saves from penetrating or glancing hits, as normal

 Tomb King wrote:

 Jstncloud wrote:
So I've read over the rules on page 74-76 in the core rule book but a YouTube video I just viewed had me re-checking the rules to clarify something one way or another. Essentially I have always done the following when attempting to take out a vehicle:

Roll to hit
Roll to pen
Allow cover saves
Damage roll

The video was saying it was in this order:

Roll to hit
Allow cover saves
Roll to pen
Damage roll

Did I miss this somewhere in the book? If it is explicitly spelled out this way could someone be so kind as to provide me with a page number for clarification? I've always played it, in all cases, where you roll to hit, roll to pen/wound, armor/cover saves, remove a model/roll for vehicle damage. To change the order of the cover save, allowing it to happen before the penetration roll seems kind of like taking armor/cover saves before you've actually wounded infantry, just doesn't seem to make sense to me.

Thanks in advance.

Were they shooting at a flyer?

It was against normal vehicles, I was under the assumption flyers had to choose to activate jink before the pen rolls, though I could be wrong.

Grey Templar wrote:The video was in correct.

The order is always Roll to Hit, roll to glance/Pen, roll any saves for the glances/pens, apply results. For a glance you lose a Hull Point, for a Pen you lose a Hull Point and then roll on the damage chart.

nosferatu1001 wrote:Indeed. If shooting at a Zooming Flyer then you elect to Evade AFTER rolls to hit, but you still take cover saves from penetrating or glancing hits, as normal

Yes! Shooting at a flyer is the only way I could see them messing it up. Evading happens after hits but only gives you the jink special rule which is taken like normal cover saves.

 Tomb King wrote:

Grey Templar wrote:The video was in correct.

The order is always Roll to Hit, roll to glance/Pen, roll any saves for the glances/pens, apply results. For a glance you lose a Hull Point, for a Pen you lose a Hull Point and then roll on the damage chart.

nosferatu1001 wrote:Indeed. If shooting at a Zooming Flyer then you elect to Evade AFTER rolls to hit, but you still take cover saves from penetrating or glancing hits, as normal

Yes! Shooting at a flyer is the only way I could see them messing it up. Evading happens after hits but only gives you the jink special rule which is taken like normal cover saves.

The way evade reads is that you'd choose to 'evade (aka turn on jink)' after hits have been rolled but before armor pen rolls. This gives you a cover save, you would still take these saves after the armor pen thought right?

Essentially it seems like they are making you choose to lock in your evasion choice before you know whether or not you've been damaged (or would be damaged) which makes sense.

 Jstncloud wrote:

 Tomb King wrote:

Grey Templar wrote:The video was in correct.

The order is always Roll to Hit, roll to glance/Pen, roll any saves for the glances/pens, apply results. For a glance you lose a Hull Point, for a Pen you lose a Hull Point and then roll on the damage chart.

nosferatu1001 wrote:Indeed. If shooting at a Zooming Flyer then you elect to Evade AFTER rolls to hit, but you still take cover saves from penetrating or glancing hits, as normal

Yes! Shooting at a flyer is the only way I could see them messing it up. Evading happens after hits but only gives you the jink special rule which is taken like normal cover saves.

The way evade reads is that you'd choose to 'evade (aka turn on jink)' after hits have been rolled but before armor pen rolls. This gives you a cover save, you would still take these saves after the armor pen thought right?

Essentially it seems like they are making you choose to lock in your evasion choice before you know whether or not you've been damaged (or would be damaged) which makes sense.

Yea you still roll your jink save after pen. The evade to give you the cover save just happens before. Basically its a risk whether or not to take the save.

 Jstncloud wrote:

 Tomb King wrote:

Grey Templar wrote:The video was in correct.

The order is always Roll to Hit, roll to glance/Pen, roll any saves for the glances/pens, apply results. For a glance you lose a Hull Point, for a Pen you lose a Hull Point and then roll on the damage chart.

nosferatu1001 wrote:Indeed. If shooting at a Zooming Flyer then you elect to Evade AFTER rolls to hit, but you still take cover saves from penetrating or glancing hits, as normal

Yes! Shooting at a flyer is the only way I could see them messing it up. Evading happens after hits but only gives you the jink special rule which is taken like normal cover saves.

The way evade reads is that you'd choose to 'evade (aka turn on jink)' after hits have been rolled but before armor pen rolls. This gives you a cover save, you would still take these saves after the armor pen thought right?

Essentially it seems like they are making you choose to lock in your evasion choice before you know whether or not you've been damaged (or would be damaged) which makes sense.

Exactly, you choose if you are going to evade before any damage rolls have been made. You are taking the risk that your opponent wiffs on his damage rolls and your evasion was for nothing.

Thanks for the speedy responses everybody.

Just to clarify the order of operations:

1. Roll to Hit
2. If Flyer, defender choose whether to Evade or not.
3. Roll to Pen
4. Roll Saves, if any per Jink or whatever rule you have for it.
5. Roll on Damage Chart.

-------------

The Evade part is to force the defending flyer to make a guess as to whether they think the attacker is going to successfully penetrate or not.

Would that be the same for a Flying Monstrous Creature who chooses to Dive after being Hit with Shooting? Of course I usually have invul saves, but flying hive tyrants do not

Diving works differently. The FMC rules explain it quite clearly.