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Thanks for stating the obvious there Walrus. +1 post for the both of us I guess eh?

Did any of you actually watch the video that was posted? Or are you lot just answering because you dont like firearms, or dont get American gun culture or some other reason? They are asking for actions to be taken to stop gun violence, as a knee jerk reaction to the Sandy Hook shooting. When the truth is, gun violence is at its lowest in YEARS. And yes, this is a very simple segway into the current political debate about firearms in general going on right now. So the simple fact that these Hollywood types made a video demanding a stop to gun violence, while making nice fat pay checks portraying the EXACT SAME THING they are demanding to be stopped.......

hyp·o·crite
/ˈhipəˌkrit/
Noun
A person who indulges in hypocrisy.

hy·poc·ri·sy
/hiˈpäkrisē/
Noun
The practice of claiming to have moral standards or beliefs to which one's own behavior does not conform; pretense.


Weird. Im wrong how exactly? Because where Im sitting, watching that video, and reading the (ridiculous) responses of said video, Im not seeing how Im in the wrong for thinking this. Rather, how the hell all of you are still saying they are in the right

I love how these 'Hollywood types' aren't allowed opinions as others are, and treated as if they are a different species. If it were any other profession no one would act as if they weren't allowed to feel one way or another about something, but god forbid professional entertainers think about giving an opinion.

If you can't understand the difference between storytelling, and specifically telling stories people want to watch and continually pay to see, and reality, I'm not sure what argument to use to make you realize the two are different. Playing Call of Duty doesn't make one a soldier or endorse war, and watching the Good, the Bad, and the Ugly doesn't mean the Clint Eastwood or Sergio Leone think that real life violence is entertaining. By your standard you are pro war and endorse real life violence toward others because you play Warhammer. Things that are engaging in fiction do not mean they are engaging in reality.

 KingCracker wrote:

Did any of you actually watch the video that was posted?

Yes.

, while making nice fat pay checks portraying the EXACT SAME THING they are demanding to be stopped.......

Again, as we keep saying, no they don't.

Because they don't do this,.... they are not hypocrites.

If they were protesting about violence in films, or on TV whilst taking these pay checks (sic) then they would be hypocritical.

See the earlier points about music artists and drugs and sex for example.

So unless the actors or actresses involved go about shooting people or acting in an inappropriate manner with firearms they're not being hypocrites at all.

Or are you lot just answering because you don't like firearms, or don't get American gun culture or some other reason?

If reads much more as if because you do like firearms, "gun culture" etc etc that you're setting yourself up against them as you perceive them as "attacking" you or your "side". It's the only explanation for the tortuous leap of logic you keep making as far as I can see..?

If you don't agree with them.. fine, good for you. That's quite understandable and commendable that you have a.. passion ? ... whatever, for this that moves you so strongly. And, again, if that's just how you feel, for whatever reason -- weather, kids, side of the bed you got out of that morn -- fine.

But it does do you something of a misservice when you grossly misrepresent what is said -- even by "the enemy" -- in, presumably, some attempt to shore up your own arguments and refuse to engage with the points raised in counternance to what you claim.

Why can't we just agree that being a hypocrite on certain things is normal?

@KingCracker: I get what you're saying... I really do. But, I can't get worked up about is because I believe that we've all been hypocrites on certain things at one point of our lives. And besides... I'm of the mindset who doesn't take political statements from Hollywood anyways.

@Ahtman: I get that they're "artist"... and that their personal views could be different from the things that they earn their paychecks. But, wouldn't you agree that the the PERCEPTION of this is at least hypocritical?

 whembly wrote:
Why can't we just agree that being a hypocrite on certain things is normal?

As far as I can tell no one in this thread has ever made a claim to the contrary.

What people are saying is that Jamie Foxx can pretend to shoot people in movies and yet be against people shooting each other in real life and not be being hypocritical in this. In much the same way that he's not required to die of liver disease or be blind either.

 reds8n wrote:

 whembly wrote:
Why can't we just agree that being a hypocrite on certain things is normal?

As far as I can tell no one in this thread has ever made a claim to the contrary.

While that was true... it was the "vibe" I was getting.

I'm willing to be wrong.

What people are saying is that Jamie Foxx can pretend to shoot people in movies and yet be against people shooting each other in real life and not be being hypocritical in this. In much the same way that he's not required to die of liver disease or be blind either.

My take on this is that I can see arguments for both sides.

Carry on then...

 whembly wrote:

My take on this is that I can see arguments for both sides.
...

Cool.

Then please explain how Jamie Foxx , a man who -- AFAIK anyway ! -- has never gone out and murdered a whole bunch of people -- is hypocritical for saying that he wants steps/actions taken to stop such things from happening again.

NB : I'm not saying what he is supporting or asking for would or will work, if you think he's being foolish/dumb/naive here whatever , fine I can totally understand that, and that's your prerogative.

Are there people who are or are going to be hypocritical over this issue ? Of course, don't think anyone ( here) is claiming otherwise. IIRC there's a Senator or somesuch who is violently opposed to CCW ( is that the right term ?) and yet "happily" indulges in such a practise herself . You want to say she's being a hypocrite then in all likelihood I'd agree.

But I think it's thoroughly disingenuous to make any such accusations with regards to the people in the video concerned here.

 reds8n wrote:

 whembly wrote:

My take on this is that I can see arguments for both sides.
...

Cool.

Right on brother.

Then please explain how Jamie Foxx , a man who -- AFAIK anyway ! -- has never gone out and murdered a whole bunch of people -- is hypocritical for saying that he wants steps/actions taken to stop such things from happening again.

Just pulling this out where the sun doesn't shine...

But I surmise that it's because these actors are perceived as using their hollywood stardom status as some sort of bully pulpit.

NB : I'm not saying what he is supporting or asking for would or will work, if you think he's being foolish/dumb/naive here whatever , fine I can totally understand that, and that's your prerogative.

I think they are a bit naive imo.

Are there people who are or are going to be hypocritical over this issue ? Of course, don't think anyone ( here) is claiming otherwise. IIRC there's a Senator or somesuch who is violently opposed to CCW ( is that the right term ?) and yet "happily" indulges in such a practise herself . You want to say she's being a hypocrite then in all likelihood I'd agree.

You're thinking of Dianne Feinstein and she's a full blown hypocrite. She's pushing for a reinstatement of the Assault Weapons Ban today.

But I think it's thoroughly disingenuous to make any such accusations with regards to the people in the video concerned here.

Cool...

I dont really see what regular everyday people, being a hypocrite has to do with this. Yes, everyone really is to a point. The problem is, these are stars. Stars that have a voice, and are seen and followed by hundreds of thousands, if not millions of people world wide. When they start to get political, which they all are in making this video, then how much of a hypocrite they are becomes more of a factor in this. And again, I dont see how it matters that they dont physically go out and shoot people and cause random acts of violence with firearms in real life. They do those things in movies, they pretend to do that to make a living. And having the mind set that its OK to do this on TV to pay my bills, but you guys need to stop gun violence is very much the definition of Hypocrisy. They have the mind set of anti gun violence, yet they pretend to shoot the feth out of people on film.

 KingCracker wrote:
Did any of you actually watch the video that was posted? Or are you lot just answering because you dont like firearms, or dont get American gun culture or some other reason? They are asking for actions to be taken to stop gun violence, as a knee jerk reaction to the Sandy Hook shooting. When the truth is, gun violence is at its lowest in YEARS. And yes, this is a very simple segway into the current political debate about firearms in general going on right now. So the simple fact that these Hollywood types made a video demanding a stop to gun violence, while making nice fat pay checks portraying the EXACT SAME THING they are demanding to be stopped.......

You really need to begin to understand that pretend violence is not the same thing as real violence. All those extras that get shot to pieces by the hero in the movie... aren't really hurt. It's all make believe, for fun, and to tell a story and maybe sometimes to explore a theme.

Whereas guns used in the real world actually kill people.

A person can be in favour of pretend violence, like an action movie or a game of Warhammer, and still in favour of reducing real world violence.

The debate to be had is whether firearm regulations will increase or decrease the amount of real world violence. Whereas this line of debate you've tried to put forward just doesn't work, because pretend violence and real world violence are different things.

But I surmise that it's because these actors are perceived as using their hollywood stardom status as some sort of bully pulpit.

I can certainly see how people could take umbrage with a celebrity/whomever seemingly taking advantage of their position to.. lecture or chide people, perhaps said people are in fact totally incorrect with regards to what they're saying.

But that also would not and does not make them hypocrites. Which is of the point of contention/meat of the matter/etc etc here.

I dont really see what regular everyday people, being a hypocrite has to do with this.

Quite correct, that has no real relevance here. They breath and go to the bathroom as well but....


There certainly are hypocrites with regards to this debate.

You'll note people coming out and calling celebrities who get involved all manner of things, yet Palin for example can close down and disarm the Alaska State Defense Force and that's fine. Apparently.

And again, I dont see how it matters that they dont physically go out and shoot people and cause random acts of violence with firearms in real life. They do those things in movies, they pretend to do that to make a living. And having the mind set that its OK to do this on TV to pay my bills, but you guys need to stop gun violence is very much the definition of Hypocrisy.

No, it would be hypocritical of them say, to come out with "society is too violent" and complain about, possibly "Hollywood glamourising violence" or grumble about how people watch movies. As they do actively contribute to the industry in question, then that would be very hypocritical of them.

As they don't however go about murdering people in real life -- I'm sure there's a joke about Foxx, Kanye West and the term "criminal record" that could be worked in here in some fashion -- they can quite safely and without any taint of hypocrisy say that they feel that something needs to be done about gun violence.

So it matters that they don't do X/Y/Z in reality as to qualify as *term in use* ( hypocrite here) one must first do X/Y/Z.

And I think if you look at the people involved it's something of a stretch to claim that they all make their living by pretending to shoot people on screen. Jason Bateman's fame isn't really as a gun swinging hard action hero is it ? According to your argument he's a hypocrite as he doesn't share a house with his dysfunctional extended family or drive a set of stairs around.

All in all it strikes me as if you're more upset at these celebrities et al saying things you don't agree with and are angry at them for this slight or attack on you /your way of life. Which if that's how feel.. fair enough.

But that certainly sounds more like you object to the aforementioned celebrity preaching and have just latched onto the term hypocrite as others were throwing it about.

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

 KingCracker wrote:
And Im allowed to say that. So enjoy it

The same way that red is allowed to express his opinion that you are wrong.

So at this point, lets pass out cigars and celebrate being masters of the universe!

 sebster wrote:
You really need to begin to understand that pretend violence is not the same thing as real violence.

You're getting to the problem, albeit in an ass backwards way. I very seriously doubt that KingC doesn't understand that difference. But it's hard to believe that people like James Holmes and Adam Lanza do. There is a kind of sociopathy that is pervasive in American culture. Weapons manufacturers incidentally benefit from it but Hollywood completely relies upon it. I went to see Dark Knight Rises the weekend after the Aurora shooting and, as I watched the extreme violence in that film (yes it was extreme regardless of whatever the goriest business ever slapped on screen might be), I felt my stomach turning. Watching people get shot up felt traumatic and revolting.

The thing I wondered about was, why is this the first time I am noticing this? Why has this never bothered me before?