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Hey Dakka,

I play a Venom Heavy DE army and I'm looking to add some Craftworld flavor! I'm in the dark about Eldar Allies and I'm wondering what you guys think about Dire Avengers? Are they good as rapid attack shock troops or are they typically shelved for something else? All pros and cons would be welcome advice from your experience in 6th so far! Thanks in advance!

Well this is something of a loaded question. However the short answer is no. Avengers are marginally more durable than Dark Eldar Warriors, with a 4+ save and Ld9 base and can be taken in small squads which helps with MSU/vehicle spam lists, all stuff that helps a Venom spam list (durability and ease of MSU). However in pretty much every other way they are worse than Warriors, who are pretty sub par units to start with, their basic weaponry is worse and they can't take any heavy or special weapons to get any meaningful punch. Massed S4 shooting is pointless in a DE list.

The reason its a bit of a loaded question is that Eldar don't have much choice in their scoring units, so Avengers are still semi viable. Both Dark Eldar and Eldar scoring units were pretty marginal in 5th (mostly they stayed competitive because of their vehicles being rock solid), and the changes in 6th clubbed them over the head and left them to die. The biggest thing that both armies need is durability in their scoring units, Eldar can at least ally with someone other than DE to get it but DE themselves don't have many options.

For Eldar Guardians are very fragile but still have some uses in infantry based Avatar/Wraithlord based lists (mostly I end up using them as screens). Rangers are static, have pathetic damage output and their biggest advantage (great cover save) is easily countered. In any kind of competitive environment Avengers are really only useful as the cheapest Troop unit you can bring to unlock a Serpent. However since Serpents are now a good 40pts overpriced and at some point those 5 T3 guys have to disembark if they want to do their job its not as attractive as it used to be. For a list that is already heavy on vehicles like a DE Venom list they are probably your best bet though since you need at least one Troop to ally in Divination and Warding on the Seer. The last troop option is Jetbikes, which are worth considering. They are still cheap, 3 for 66pts, but unlike the Avengers they are self contained, don't need a transport and T4 3+/5++ with high mobility to avoid shots completely can be frustrating to deal with. In an Eldar list 2 unit of them is a no brainer imo, they can reserve, zoom around and jump onto objectives turn 5+ which is completely worth it for their points. However when Eldar are allied to something its not such an easy choice, mostly because the Seer needs somewhere to go himself. If your DE list has some infantry components then you are fine since he can just join them, but since he can't jump in a DE vehicle that probably doesn't work in a Venom list so you end up back with Avengers.

You've been more than helpful. I'm thinking bikes might be my best option!

There's always the best troop (bit expensive though), wraith guard!

quack98 wrote:
There's always the best troop (bit expensive though), wraith guard!

I was considering these guys too, but my problem is they dont seem to fit into a fast moving list. Unless im missing something with them?

No they're not particularly fast, but when backed up with wraithlord, they're awesome. And they absorb shots.

Fast dark eldar go around the flanks, whilst wraith guard/lord go down the centre, and as guard are T6 and The Lord is T8, they survive really well. I assume your HQ for eldar is a Farseer, and he can cast fortune on one of the units, and the warlock in the wraith guard unit uses conceal against things like demolisher pie plates.

I don't play eldar or DE so I can't offer much more advice, but I know a bit because I considered them to ally with my tau. Hope this helps!

If you field a Venom spam, Dire Avengers mounted in a Serpent would be a decent add-on, either as a plain unit or with bladestorm.
An alternative would be Pathfinders.