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In the 6ed CSM codex, the term "stormbolter" has been replaced with "combi-bolter" for the Terminators.

Now, I assume that when a Chaos Terminator wields a combi-bolter, it still counts as a stormbolter, i.e an assault weapon that allows the termie to move, shoot and charge freely in the same turn. Right? Or is it just a rapid fire twin-linked bolter, making the Chaos termies worse than other SM termies, who still have stormbolters listed in their codex?

Has the concept of walkie-shootie stormbolters disappeared altogether from 6th ed rules or is the rule just explained differently now?

A storm bolter and a combi-bolter are not the same weapon, each with different stats and rules.

 Ghaz wrote:
A storm bolter and a combi-bolter are not the same weapon, each with different stats and rules.

So a Chaos Terminator cannot shoot and charge in the same turn anymore, where a regular SM Terminator still can?

I was under the impression terminator armour made you relentless which meant you could fire any weapon and still charge.

Rythem wrote:
I was under the impression terminator armour made you relentless which meant you could fire any weapon and still charge.

Me too! But I can't find the rule stating it. In 5th ed it was the weapon that determined it.

Check the armoury section of the codex page 65, the profile for the Combi-Bolter is listed there and remember the Relentless special rule is one of the things you get from wearing Terminator Armour, which is also mentioned in the codex on page 68.

 ChaoticBob wrote:

 Ghaz wrote:
A storm bolter and a combi-bolter are not the same weapon, each with different stats and rules.

So a Chaos Terminator cannot shoot and charge in the same turn anymore, where a regular SM Terminator still can?

Read the rules for Terminator Armour and what special rules it grants the wearer. Also note that Chaos Terminators have not had storm bolters at least as far back as their first 3rd edition codex almost 15 years ago.

Oh, there it is...

Thanks!

At it's most simple: a combi-bolter is a twin-linked bolter with the Rapidfire rule and a range of 24"

A storm bolter on the other hand as the same range, but is Assault 2.

For the purposes of terminators with relentless? each has it's pros and cons.

 Neorealist wrote:
At it's most simple: a combi-bolter is a twin-linked bolter with the Rapidfire rule and a range of 24"

A storm bolter on the other hand as the same range, but is Assault 2.

For the purposes of terminators with relentless? each has it's pros and cons.

pros and cons? A storm bolter is just plain better in any situation.

At 12" twin linked is better, far better.

haroon wrote:
pros and cons? A storm bolter is just plain better in any situation.

Not true. At a range of 12" or less, the combi bolter clearly wins out because it has the same number of shots and is twin-linked. Since we're talking about Chaos Terminators, the model has Relentless so can still assault after shooting it. The storm bolter is only better at longer range (and even then, not by a lot) or when carried by a non-Relentless model.

Indeed, I dont know why I didnt think of that.

 ChaoticBob wrote:
In the 6ed CSM codex, the term "stormbolter" has been replaced with "combi-bolter" for the Terminators.

Now, I assume that when a Chaos Terminator wields a combi-bolter, it still counts as a stormbolter, i.e an assault weapon that allows the termie to move, shoot and charge freely in the same turn. Right? Or is it just a rapid fire twin-linked bolter, making the Chaos termies worse than other SM termies, who still have stormbolters listed in their codex?

Has the concept of walkie-shootie stormbolters disappeared altogether from 6th ed rules or is the rule just explained differently now?

Just to nitpick: Chaos Terminators have had combi bolters (or just plain twin-linked bolters) since at least 3rd edition

Edit: just checked my 2nd edition book, they also had them back then, too. The army list at the back of the 3rd edition rulebook (before codices were updated) gave them storm bolters, though.

 liturgies of blood wrote:
At 12" twin linked is better, far better.

2 shots hitting on 3s. 1.333hits or 66.7%

2 shots hitting on 3s(TL) 1.778hits or 88.9%

Roughly another 1/2 hit better. However at 12.1-24".

2 shots hitting on 3s 1.333hits or 66.7%
1 shot hitting on 3s(TL) .889 hits or 88.9%

Flip flopped at 12.1-24" though. One can say if they're not within 12" though you're playing them wrong

A combi-bolter is a Twin-linked bolter. a stormbolter is an Assault 2 bolter.

It actually never occurred to me that they have different weapons. The model still looks like a stormbolter to me, only with a chainsaw bayonet.
I was taught 40k by a dude who's never played CSM, that might explain some things. We've always played them as stormbolters in our "house". Now I know better.

Combi Bolter = Twin Linked Bolter.

at 24"...

TL Bolter = 1 Shot + re-rolls
storm Bolter = 2 shots


at 12"

TL Bolter = 2 Shots + re-rolls
Storm Bolter = 2 Shots.





I'd sooner take a TL bolter any day of the week, on a Terminator at least (as stated, Relentless mitigates the only real disadvantage)

Personally i prefer the combi-bolter too if i can get it, twin-linked is very nice even if you are only getting one shot off at 12"+-24". The math on it really doesn't end up being much different than a storm bolter, but it also really shines when in rapidfire range.

(12"+-24")
BS 4 - Storm Bolter - (66% success) = 88% chance of at least one shot hitting and a 66% chance of 2
BS 4 - Twin-linked Bolter - (88% success) = 88% chance of one shot hitting

(1"+-12")
BS 4 - Storm Bolter - (66% success) = 88% chance of at least one shot hitting and a 66% chance of 2
BS 4 - Twin-linked Bolter - (88% success) = 98% (ish) chance of at least one shot hitting, and an 88% chance of both hitting.

 Neorealist wrote:
Personally i prefer the combi-bolter too if i can get it, twin-linked is very nice even if you are only getting one shot off at 12"+-24". The math on it really doesn't end up being much different than a storm bolter, but it also really shines when in rapidfire range.

(12"+-24")
BS 4 - Storm Bolter - (66% success) = 88% chance of at least one shot hitting and a 66% chance of 2
BS 4 - Twin-linked Bolter - (88% success) = 88% chance of one shot hitting

(1"+-12")
BS 4 - Storm Bolter - (66% success) = 88% chance of at least one shot hitting and a 66% chance of 2
BS 4 - Twin-linked Bolter - (88% success) = 98% (ish) chance of at least one shot hitting, and an 88% chance of both hitting.

Actually, it's a 44% chance for both stormbolter shots to hit, and a 79% chance for both TL bolter shots in rapid fire range to hit.

Redemption wrote: Actually, it's a 44% chance for both stormbolter shots to hit, and a 79% chance for both TL bolter shots in rapid fire range to hit.

Is it? thanks!

This thread amuses me, now if only we could have salvo 2/4 twin-linked bolters... oh wait thats DA bikers

Storm bolters were never in the chaos codex.