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I had an idea for Kroot squads that may potentially make them more attractive to bring to the table again. It's a fairly large reworking of them, so the costs are kind of rough right now, so bear with me on that, but I think it could work.

Kroot Carnivore Squad
80 points
Infantry
9 Kroot and 1 Kroot Shaper

Kroot
WS 4/ BS 3/ S 4/ T 3/ W 1 / I 3 / A 1 / LD 7 / Sv6+
Kroot Shaper
WS 4/ BS3/ S 4/ T 3/ W 2/ I 3 / A 2 / LD8 / Sv 6+
Kroot Hound
WS 4/ BS0/ S4/ T3/ W 1/ I 5/ A 2/ LD 6 / Sv
Krootox Rider
WS 4/ BS3/ S6/ T 3/ W 3/ I 2 / A3 / LD7 / Sv 6+

Kroot and Kroot Shapers have the following wargear:
Kroot Rifles
Leather Armor (gives them a 6+ save)
Offensive Grenades (Frag Grenades)

Kroot Rifle
S4/AP5/Range 18"/Assault 2, Bladed
Bladed: In combat, this model counts as being equipped with 2 ccws.

Kroot Hounds have a single close combat weapon.
Krootox Rideres have the following weapons:
Kroot Gun
Frag Grenades
Leather Armor

Kroot Gun
48"/S7/AP4/Rapid Fire

Special Rules:
All Kroot models have the Stealth and Move through Cover USRs
The Krootox Rider has the Relentless USR
As long as the Kroot Squad contains a Shaper or Master Shaper, the squad benefits from the Eaters of the Dead rule.

Eater's of the Dead:
Should a combat end with the enemy squad either being wiped out, falling back due to a failed morale check, or destroyed due to a sweeping advance, the Kroot squad do not get to make a consolidation move. Instead, each Kroot squad in the combat gains a feed counter. Kroot squads with a feed counter on them gain the FNP (6+) USR.

You may purchase up to 10 additional Kroot at 7 points per model.
For every 10 models past the first, you may upgrade a single Kroot to a Shaper for 10 points per model.
You may purchase up to 12 Kroot Hounds for 6 points per model.
You may purcahse up to 3 Krootox Riders for 35 points per model.


You may have every Kroot, Krootox Rider, and Shaper exchange their Leather Armor for Flakk Armor (confers a 5+ armor save) for 1 point per model.

Kroot Shapers may exchange their Kroot Guns for any of the following:
Pulse Rifle: Free
Pulse Carbine and Marker Light: Free
Pulse Pistol and Close Combat Weapon: Free
Pulse Pistol and Power Weapon: 10 points.

This is just a really rough re-write, but any thoughts would be appreciated.

Stealth and Move through Cover don't really play well into Kroot moving over, say, a downed ship, or through a crater/rubble. Kroot are pretty heavily fluffed towards "Woodland Commandos"

The feed counter doesn't really make sense. Kroot don't get any immediate physical qualities from eating the dead. They store and dissemble genetic material, and then once that's been approved by a master shaper, adapt it to themselves in the form of new traits. Not healing, or immunity to pain.

Kroot shaper has 2 wounds for no reason.

"For every 10 models past the first, you may upgrade a single Kroot to a Shaper for 10 points per model." needs a rewording -- as it is, I can have 11 models and 2 shapers.




As it stands, what you've done is created a cheap unit that puts out a lot of bolter fire at better range, and competes with marines in CC,, for half the cost. They have no flavour, as they have lost what original Krootiness they had. No purpose, in that they don't fill any of the holes in a Tau player's army -- they fill ALL of them. I have no reason, using the proposed rules, to not take 4-5 squads of Kroot and flood my enemy, using my more-than-ample heavy and elite slots to work antitank and anti-2+.

This is just my personal opinion, however. What I can say objectively is that you've made WS4 marine scouts with 18" stormbolters and 2ccw for 7ppm.


For an example of what I would do:

Stealth and Move Through Cover applies to wooded areas or natural terrain only, increase cost or lower strength of weapon, give kroot hounds a reason to be taken besides "cheap ablative wounds", make krootox sexier somehow.

After reading your post I just realized that I had changed the Kroot Rifles range and weapon type, but forgot to drop the number of shots. The gun should be 18"/S4/AP5/Assault 1. Kroot Shapers have an additional wound because the current entry in the Tau Codex has shapers with 3, and I wanted to leave somewhere to go with a Kroot HQ, while still reflecting the previous codex profile as closely as possible.

There are several reasons that the Kroot were given move through cover and stealth rather then their existing fieldcraft rules. The first is that realistically speaking the skills needed to move through a downed ship or pile of rubble and the skills needed to conceal yourselves in them are largely the same. The second is that I always felt that they were forced into the 'woodland commandos' role when they would better fit the role of 'commandos'. After all, Kroot aren't just deployed in forests, they are also deployed in deserts, cities, and other non-green environments. The final reason is that highly contextual rules like fieldcraft are extremely hard to balance into a unit. If you don't count for those abilities into their cost because they may never come up (I have never once played on a board with a significant amount of woodlands) then the abilities will be too powerful in the cases they do come up, and if you do try to account for those cases, you will often run into scenarios where the unit becomes undercosted. From a balance and gameplay perspective I believe that Stealth and Move through Cover work better than fieldcraft, and although many may disagree with me, while I feel that fluff should influence the game, if fluff and gameplay are in conflict, it is the fluff that should have to adapt.

I'm also not sure how much Kroot Hounds and the Krootox Riders need to be changed, although I admit when I typed this up last night I kinda included them as an afterthought. I've made some possible changes as you see below.

However, I after re-reading what I wrote, I agree with you that they were perhaps too good. I also need to think of something better to do with Eater's of the Dead. Right now these are the changes I will make to the profile:

Kroot Rifles are down to assault 1 (as already mentioned)
Kroot no longer have the option to purchase a 5+ save.
Shapers are down to 1 wound.
Shaper cost down to 5 points.
Rewording the shaper line to "For every 10 additional models taken with the squad, a single Kroot may be upgraded to a Shaper for 5 points."
Give Kroot Hounds and Krootox Riders the option of deploying seperately similar to combat squads. If done Kroot Hounds move as beasts. However, if they are deployed seperately only the Kroot are scoring (to prevent a single FOC from being able to put out 18 scoring units)
Kroot hounds up to 10 points per model and gain rending.
Eaters of the Dead Removed until a a better solution is found.
Kroot and Kroot Hounds regain infiltrate (just noticed I forgot to include it in their rules). Note that as per the current codex entry, Kroot squads can not infiltrate if a Krootox Rider is deployed with them.

And as a possible solution: Krootox Riders may replace their Kroot Guns with Skyspear Rifles for 10 points per model. Skyspire Rifles have the following profile:

Range36"/S8/AP4/Heavy1, Modal.

Modal: Weapons with Modal may choose to fire each turn as though they had skyfire. Note that this allows them to shoot at both regular and flying targets at normal BS, however they do not have interceptor.

Again, this is still a rough draft, but I hope it looks a little better.

Kroot carnivores shouldn't be able to sweep or consolidate - they are eating those they've just killed and get lost in that.

I dunno where you're coming from there Scipio; they pile the dead up after the battle is over. They don't just eat ANYTHING, it has to be pointed out by a shaper, and then approved by a master shaper.

@Regal: I like the Modal weapon and the cost for it is right. Rending is nice on hounds, and the price is also right for the survivability they enjoy I suppose. For another example of things you can do, I have them as, "Unsaved Wounds from a Kroot Hound's attacks each inflict -1I, to a minimum of 0" -- as the hounds hold and drag down characters and champions.

In regards to fieldcraft; I understand the sentiment to not wanting a sunk cost with Kroot. Maybe give each shaper in the squad a single terrain piece fieldcraft can apply to? You pay for it, it's specific and fluffy (imparted genetics and experience), and it's not something that has to cost a lot more than the shaper itself.

Change the fluff.

Change the fluff to make them a race not worthy of combat? They have not the numbers of the ork to be so foolish, Scipio. Little can they afford follies and risks in the middle of war for little or no gain.

 chrisrawr wrote:

As it stands, what you've done is created a cheap unit that puts out a lot of bolter fire at better range, and competes with marines in CC,, for half the cost. They have no flavour, as they have lost what original Krootiness they had. No purpose, in that they don't fill any of the holes in a Tau player's army -- they fill ALL of them. I have no reason, using the proposed rules, to not take 4-5 squads of Kroot and flood my enemy, using my more-than-ample heavy and elite slots to work antitank and anti-2+.

This is just my personal opinion, however. What I can say objectively is that you've made WS4 marine scouts with 18" stormbolters and 2ccw for 7ppm.

If you really think that, what is your opinion on orks shoota boyz?
Because orks are cheaper, have the same CC ability (2A on profile VS +1A weapon, same WS and same S when charging), are tougher (T4), and init is low enough for both squad to hit after most opponents.
Orks shooting is a bit less effective, but have weapons options. and the AP5 vs 6 is not really significant, allowing most opponent to have save (5+ models will often stay in cover)
Morale is less a problem for orks.
Nobz vs shapers? shaper with power weapon would be good with I4, but with I3? nob with Klaw is more expensive, but bring more to the squad IMHO.


So, do you really think that they are such a must have?
----------------------------------

Well back to the proposed rules :
I think that kroots are quite good (I think the gun should stay assault 2), but other options are nearly useless:

Hounds have higher I, but sacrifice a good gun for it, and are only one pt cheaper... one this point, I agree with chrisrawr : they are "cheap" ablative wounds... they really need to be better in CC to justify the cost.
I suggest either A3 or shred (both would push them to 7 or 8 pt IMHO...)

Krootox are the same as in the codex, relentless let them charge after shooting, but I still think that they deserve higher T... Because they will die before doing anything in CC. and even then, S6 without ignoring armor is not that good.
At least they have a good gun now (new rapid fire rules really buffed it!)
My suggestion for them? S4, T4, fight like a monstrous creature. At least now they are a real threat, for heavy infantry and vehicles. or lower the cost (A heavy weapon team with 3 autocannons cost 75 pts... )

special rules :
Stealth and Move through Cover => Ok for me. Fieldcraft is "fluffy" but having an hability that is totally useless because there is no forest on the table is bad.

Eater's of the Dead : if you want to keep it just say no sweeping advance, just the consolidation move. It feel like a drawback to me: 6+ FNP vs potentially destroying a squad? not a good trade.

Upgrades :
With T3 and a bonus to cover save, the flak armor will be used as much as the 6+ save in the codex, no one will ever pay for it. Very few weapons are AP6, and most basic weapons are AP5.

Shaper upgrades :
pulse rifle : when the rest of the squad get assault guns, this is really a bad idea...
markerlight seams useless, because you want to keep moving, and have to fire against the same target as your squad. Should have a target lock to be usefull.
pistol + ccw : Gain 1S in shooting, losing 6" range (and maybe a second shot if the rifle stay assault 2), not gaining an additionnal attack because you lose the one granted by the gun? no thanks!
pistol + power weapon : a lance seems a good option.

on the squad splitting option : good idea, but with the current stat, Krootox need the ablative wounds. T3, even with 3PV, will die to lasguns easily.
Skyspire bring them to 45 pts which is relly expansive for what they bring to the table.

Hounds moving like beasts become an interesting option.

No more ideas right now....

I'd have to agree with the above comments.

The 6+ FNP on top of 6+ armor is just silly. You're going to save an additional .167 wounds S5 or less and this is only after you've achieved a huge accomplishment for Kroot. You won a combat.

That's if it even comes into play. They are going to be taking a lot of wounds from shooting, unless hugging cover. In which case flamers become their worst nightmare.

I think this just makes them a bit better than what they offer now. Just a bunch of rifles. I'd never charge with them because they are a glass hammer. They can hit a lot with 3 attacks on the charge and S4, WS4. But the downside to this is they are T3, 6+, and I3. Meaning that every marine under the sun is going to be hitting back and every wound is going to reduce the attacks back by 3, 6+ saves very little so you're going to be feeling the hurt. Even with a 5+ I don't think they are going to do much damage back. And then the damage they do will be saved 66% of the time.

Here's the problem I see with these guys. Shaper is incredibly weak and only offers a +1Ld buff. Challenge the Shaper and win, not that hard to do. Now the unit will be breaking on base LD7 and has chance of getting swept up.

I really don't see why these guys can't do a sweeping advance. I know the Kroot cavalry have the same rule, but they are savage hunters. I really don't see them stopping to grab a snack in the middle of a fight or even to not take down a fleeing unit.

Some more changes to my previous suggestions:
Initial cost of the Carnivore Squad is to 70 points.
Shapers are no longer included for free.
For every 10 models in the squad (including Kroot Hounds and Krootox Riders), a single Kroot may be upgraded to a Shaper for 5 points.
Kroot no longer have stealth by default (although they still have move through cover and infiltrate).
If a Kroot Squad includes at least one Shaper, all Kroot gain Stealth. This bonus remains even if the Shaper dies (this represents the Shaper leading a squad which was specially adapted for the planet they are fighting on).

Things I am currently trying to figure out:

Still not sure where to go with Eaters of the Dead, but it will be tied to Shapers (ie, unlike Stealth, if all shapers in a squad die, Eaters of the Dead is lost) and it will have a bonus for each Shaper in the squad.

Also, I'm thinking about adding an option for a Shaper to upgrade to riding a Krootox. I'm thinking it will probably be a 30 point upgrade (for a total of 42 points for the Krootox Shaper), but I'm trying to figure out how to make it more exciting than just being a Krootox Rider with +1 A and LD.

I'm also thinking about the following for a Master Shaper HQ Choice

Master Shaper: 60 (?) points.
WS5 BS4 S4 T4 W3 A3 I4 LD9 Sv 5+
Basic Equipment: Kroot Rifle, Pulse Pistol, Flak Armor
Base Rules: Infiltrate, Stealth, Move through Cover, Master Shaper, Leader of the Kroot.
Master Shaper: If your army includes a Master Shaper, all Kroot Squads count as having one additional Shaper in their squad.
Leader of the Kroot: All Kroot units within 12" of the Master Shaper (including the Master Shaper himself) have 'And they Shall Know No Fear'.
Options:
May Replace the Kroot Rifle with:
A Pulse Rifle: Free
A Pulse Carbine and a Markerlight: Free

May Purchase One of the following:
A Power Weapon: 10 Points
A Power Fist: 20 Points
A Blade of the Sphere: 30 Points.

May Purchase Mastery Level 1: 20 Points (this gives them access to Pyromancy and Biomancy)
May Purchase a second Mastery Level for 20 Points.

Blade of the Sphere: A ceremonial warblade held at the center of each Warsphere, only drawn by a Master Shaper during a time of need. A blade of the Sphere is a power sword that gives +1 S and +1 A (it is still a 1 handed weapon, so you get an additional bonus attack from having two CC weapons).

Comments in bold

Dark Phoenix wrote:

If you really think that, what is your opinion on orks shoota boyz?They're great, what's up?
Because orks are cheaper, have the same CC ability (2A on profile VS +1A weapon, same WS and same S when charging), are tougher (T4), and init is low enough for both squad to hit after most opponents. And what other troops choices do you have? Ohright Joke Gretchin. In fact, what other cheap units do you have at all? Ork armybuilding is centralized on the fact that they can grab a couple relatively threatening units for cheap, allowing them to fill out their weaknesses with meta tailor or fun, interesting things.
Orks shooting is a bit less effective, but have weapons options. and the AP5 vs 6 is not really significant, allowing most opponent to have save (5+ models will often stay in cover)
This isn't a problem for the ork codex, or with ork boys.

Morale is less a problem for orks.
Great, because it's a huge problem for Kroot. I'm glad we're not trying to make units into the same thing, and that we recognize that each unit, in its own codex, is built in such a way that it attempts to be balanced (or if not, we move towards such a build)

Nobz vs shapers? shaper with power weapon would be good with I4, but with I3? nob with Klaw is more expensive, but bring more to the squad IMHO.
The nob gets killed by railgun submunitions from across the board. Because Kroot are, again, not supposed to be point-for-point comparably powerful to orks.

So, do you really think that they are such a must have?
Yes. 100%. If they were built the way they were before his edits in response to my comments, I would take as many Kroot as possible after I'd maxed out elite and heavy options. You're forgetting to compare Stealth, Move through Cover, infiltration, outflanking, and higher initiative. And the fact that they have fire support that doesn't hit only on 5's, and can cover some of the strongest shooting in the game as meat shields. An ork statline and weapons refluffed into a marine codex would be at least 10 points.


stuff

@chrisrawr =>
So, for orks, it is "normal" stats, because they should have cheap infantry, but Tau shouldn't...

With allies in 6th, cross-codex comparison is now possible. Orks are even an ally of convenience for Tau. They also are desperate allies for marines, without costing 10 points.
So why insisting on making kroots stricty inferior in shooting AND in CC for more point without boosting their survivability, or anything else that would make them worth their point.

I haven't listed all the special rules, but what are they worth if the model can't do anything on his own, and don't benefits from the rest of the army support (like markerlight)? Stealth is probably the most valuable, but you insist on nerfing it (limits to wood) in addition of nerfing the gun. move throught cover is a bonus, but that's a badly designed rule for me, because a lucky player can easily get the same result without the rule.

With the first profile, let's make basic probability on infiltrating kroots having the first turn versus marines :
20 kroots shooting at marines so 40 shots, 1/2 hits, 1/2 wounds, 2/3 are saved. 3.33 dead marines. Congratulation, you have killed a few marines, you are probably out of charge range, and ready to die next turn.

This is the firepower of rapid firing firewarriors (for the same cost), and firewarriors can achieve better results with markerlight support. And have a 36" threat range.
Should kroots better at shooting than firewarriors? No, they should'nt. Not in long range firefight. but in close range, to soften up a charge target? absolutely. Maybe cutting the range of the weapond to 15", ore even 12" would be better.

Now let's say you are lucky,and they could charge, what happen?

you will lose 1-3 kroots on overwatch, (3 is when there is a flamer in the squad).
marines gets 7 attacks, killing 2 more.
if all kroots can fight, thay get 48(let say4 died to ovewatch/CC), and kill 4 of them. they win the fight (hurrah!) but that's it.... now they have disrupted your opponent, but are they a threat? if they are alone, no, they aren't. If you have several units, you puts an awful lots of points in kroots. And you are lucky to get these charges.

I may misinterpret their role though, and maybe they should just be cheap throwaway units, killing a few foes and getting the attention., If that's the case, they should in fact be nerfed, but reduce they should cost less (like 5 points, with worse gun, maybe even worse stats...)

I'd really like to know what role you think they should have on the battlefield, and what you would do to achieve that role.

IMO, current Kroots in codex Tau are fine as is. The only changes really needed is giving them stealth, Shaper makes the squad stubborn, Drop them to 6 points a pop and increase squad size cap to 30. Alternatively, have the Shaper grant Kroot units within 6" stubborn.

@Dark Phoenix; Oh sorry, I thought we were talking about balance. Yeah sure throw orks into your dex if we're brining Allies into it. Orks and Tau were definitely built with an Allies game-design mindset, using modern gaming theories and playerbase feedback. My apologies.

That was sarcasm.

I actually insist on buffing their current stealth. Please re-read as to where I state a variety of different ways it could be implemented cheaply and fluffily.

Remember that infiltration is 2 points per model.


Kroot should serve as a diversionary and alphastrike role. They should be fast enough to "get the charge" on an enemy, agile enough to get an attack off, and durable enough to last a round in combat. Then they should die, freeing up your elite and heavy slots to do the real work now that they're done popping transports and tanks.

Anyways, here's some old stuff from 2011/early 2012 I had kicking about. Ignore references to any wargear that wasn't mentioned here, it's from another source and doesn't impact these kroot in any way outside interactions with that source.

Unit: Kroot Commander
Model: Kroot Master Shaper
Points: 70
Models: 1
Unit Type: Infantry (Character)

Kroot Master Shaper: WS: 5 BS: 3 S: 4 T: 3 W: 3 I: 4 A: 3 Ld: 10 Sv: 5+

Kroot Master Shaper on Krootox: WS: 5 BS: 3 S: 5 T: 4 W: 5 I: 4 A: 4 Ld: 10 Sv: 5+

A Kroot Commander is an HQ Choice for a Tau Empire Army.

Wargear: Command Helm, Kroot Gun

Kroot gun: Range: A Kroot Gun counts as 2 Close Combat Weapons, and is fired with the following profile: Range: 18" S: 4 AP: 6 Special: Assault 1

Special Rules: Ambush, Independent Character, Infiltrate, Kroot Genevolution, Stubborn

Ambush: Models with Ambush ignore difficult terrain from natural area terrain (terrain that is not ruins or rubble, wrecks. Examples include forests, jungles, rivers, brush, grass, and rocky terrain). While in natural terrain, they gain the Stealth USR, and when they launch an assault from or against a unit in natural terrain, they may make the extra attack gained from charging at initiative 6 instead of its normal initiative.

Kroot Genevolution: This model must be deployed attached to a unit if it is an IC. If he is an IC, he may not leave that unit until he is the last model remaining in it. In exchange, the entire unit including this model may purchase one of the following upgrades at a total cost of 2 points per model:
+1WS and +1A | +1S and +1I | +1BS and +1T
| +2Sv

(A unit may only benefit from one instance of Kroot Genevolution.)

Unit Options: The Kroot Master Shaper may ride a Krootox for +30 Points.

Krootox: A model riding a Krootox changes its unit type to Beast, gains +1 Strength and Toughness, +2 Wounds, +1 Attacks, the Relentless Special Rule, and a Twin-Linked Kroot Rifle. The Twin-Linked Kroot Rifle fires with the following profile:

Range: 48" S: 7 AP: 5 Special: Rapidfire



Unit: Kroot Carnivore Squad
Model: Kroot Carnivore, Kroot Hound
Points: 60
Models: 10
Unit Type: Beast, Infantry

Kroot Carnivore: WS: 4 BS: 3 S: 4 T: 3 W: 1 I: 3 A: 1 Ld: 7 Sv: -

Kroot Hound (Beast): WS: 4 BS: 0 S: 4 T: 3 W: 1 I: 5 A: 2 Ld: 5 Sv: -

Kroot Shaper: WS: 4 BS: 3 S: 4 T: 3 W: 1 I: 3 A: 1 Ld: 8 Sv: 6+

Kroot Carnivore on Krootox(Beast): WS: 4 BS: 3 S: 5 T: 4 W: 3 A: 2

A Kroot Carnivore Squad is aTroops Choice for a Tau Empire Army. Up to 10 additional Kroot Carnivores may be added to a Kroot Carnivore Squad at 6 Points per Model. A Kroot Shaper may be added to the unit for 15 points. Up to 10 Kroot Hounds may be added to the unit for 6 points each.

Wargear: Kroot Gun (Kroot Carnivore Only), Teeth and Claws (Kroot Hound Only)

Teeth and Claws: A Close Combat Weapon. Enemy models wounded in close combay by a Kroot Hound's attacks have their Initiative lowered by 1 for each Unsaved Wound, to a minimum of 1, for the remainder of the assault.

Special Rules: Ambush, Infiltrate, Kroot Genevolution (Kroot Shaper Only)

Unit Options: For every 5 Kroot Carnivores in the unit, one may ride a Krootox for 20 points. The Kroot Carnivore Squad may improve its armour save by 1 for 1 point per model (this does stack with the increase from Kroot Genevolution, if they have it.)


Unit: Kroot Carnivore Hunters
Model: Kroot Carnivore Hunter
Points: 44
Models: 4
Unit Type: Infantry

Kroot Carnivore Hunter: WS: 4 BS: 3 S: 4 T: 3 W: 1 I: 4 A: 2 Ld: 9 Sv: -

Kroot Carnivore Hunters are an Elites Choice for a Tau Empire Army. Up to 6 additional Kroot Carnivore Hunters may be added to the unit at 11 points per model.

Wargear: Kroot Rifle, Kroot Poison

Kroot Poison: Kroot Carnivore Hunters count as being equipped with Assault Grenades against any unit they have shot this turn.

Special Rules: Ambush, Furious Charge, Fleet, Inflitrate, Scouts


Unit: Kroot Carnivor Herders
Model: Kroot Carnivore Herder, Kroot Hound
Points: 140
Models: 5 Kroot Carnivore Herders Riding Krootox
Unit Type: Beasts, Infantry

Kroot Carnivore Herder: WS: 3 BS: 2 S: 4 T: 3 W: 1 I: 3 A: 1 Ld: 8 Sv: -

Kroot Carnivore Herder Riding Krootox (Beast): WS: 3 BS: 2 S: 5 T: 4 W: 3 I: 3 A: 2 Ld: 8 Sv: -

Kroot Hound (Beast): WS: 4 BS: 0 S: 4 T: 3 W: 1 I: 5 A: 2 Ld: 5 Sv: -

Kroot Carnivor Herders are a Fast Attack Choice for a Tau Empire Army. Up to 5 Kroot Carnivore Herders may be added to the unit at 8 points each. Up to 20 Kroot Hounds may be added to the unit at 6 points each.

Wargear: Kroot Gun (Kroot Carnivore Herder only), Kroot Rifle (Riding Krootox only), Teeth and Claws (Kroot Hound only)

Special Rules: Ambush, Scouts

Unit Options: Kroot Carnivore Herders may ride a Krootox for 20 points each.

Personally I've always thought that they should be more points, but buff them significantly.

Kroot aren't meant to swarm the opponent, so why price them similar to horde units.

I'd be in favor of making them top tier units in terrain, but mediocre out of terrain.

Something like:

Stealth in terrain, Shrouded in forests.
Move through cover, with forests not slowing them down at all.
Assault grenades.
Rending when using Kroot Rifles.
Bump Initiative up to 4, give them a 5+ armor save.

With all that, price them the same as fire warriors.


This is all very rough, but this thread reminded me of that.