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Arrrrg. what do i do.

Should i use up the points by taking out my Reclusiarch, and adding in lematies and a caption (or keep the Reclusiarch and take Lematies) and spend the rest of the pts on upgrades on my army.

Or should i invest in another squad.

I already have a 10men death company on jump packs, with 2 PW and a TH, but by adding lematies it would put it up to about 570pts.
An assault squad (10 men)
Tactical in rhino (10 men)
Devastator (10 men)
and a Sanguinary Priest




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does anyone know what i shall do

 Hillbilly wrote:
Arrrrg. what do i do.

Should i use up the points by taking out my Reclusiarch, and adding in lematies and a caption (or keep the Reclusiarch and take Lematies) and spend the rest of the pts on upgrades on my army.

Or should i invest in another squad.

I already have a 10men death company on jump packs, with 2 PW and a TH, but by adding lematies it would put it up to about 570pts.
An assault squad (10 men)
Tactical in rhino (10 men)
Devastator (10 men)
and a Sanguinary Priest




Automatically Appended Next Post:
does anyone know what i shall do

Let's throw this all out and give you a good base:

BA have an awesome troop selection pile: assault Marines, DCdreads and and death company!
Of all the armies I know of, only Guard and Wolves outstrip us for standard (non HQ-enhanced) troop choices.

So, With that in mind, what should you be taking? Well, as I've said you have a good base in great infantry choices.

Assault marines over Tactical marines. Much faster, and can take advantage of the red thirst. Melta is actually a very useful weapon given the short ranged nature of assault marines - hell if you don't like jumping 12" a turn or smashing into an enemy using the weight of descending power armour to rattle their bones, you can put them in a vehicle and get a nice little discount. (55 point twin-linked assault cannons moving at 12" a turn isn't too shabby - think of all the outflanking joy*!?)

So, a core of 2 assault marine squads (10 men) is best. Give them 2 meltas, and the sergeant, a maul or a fist. (fists better, but if he gets challanged, he's toast.)

IF you go with Death company, don't give them jump packs. Give them a land Raider instead - it's more expensive, but you'll get to choose your fights and your targets will have to pass through AV14 four times to get your crunch-a-munch death company - I give mine a reclusiarch. Those bonuses are cool!

You should aim for at least one storm raven, for anti-flyer goodness (not to mention being a beast at close range.) give it an assault cannon and multi melta - consider taking two, for redundancy.

Other things to consider

- Sanguinary priests - FNP in a 50~75 point package? I'm hooked!
-Baal predators - for 115 points you get a S6AP3 flamer template that can move 12" AND outflank. Best way to deal with a unit of longfangs in a corner or a unit of Necron warriors clinging to an objective.
-Death Company and Furioso dreadnoughts. Okay, both are beasts. DC dreads will absolutely tear through sv3+ (making it an effective objective clearer.) and furiosos are almost untouchable in a combat (knock out that fist first if you know what's good fer ya!) Libby dreads can move 12" or give themselves and those around them cover, and can instagib enemies with their force weapons - they could even go might-of-heroes and get a whopping 7 attacks (at S10 or S6!) OTC!

Other then that, there's not much. Sanguinary guard used to be viable, they can be a force to be reckoned with against things that win combat anyway, but can't deal with terminators whatsoever anymore. (well, axes can... but yeah.) Vanguard veterans and sternguard veterans can work if you really want - sternguards and tactical terminators really work in this era of shooting based combat.

*Disclaimer: fast vehicles don't get outflank. I simply mean that it is possible to outflank a tank if you move at 12" a turn; hit it on the side or rear instead of the front.

wow. I dont have much money on me and the change of me getting a LR or a Storm raven is very slim (at this point of time(im still in school and saving up my money for an edq)(plus i dont think my parents will be happy if i got a $200 model at the moment))

I have (still coming been waiting for a month) an assault and a death company squad. (it should come in soon)

I have bought ( in the past) a black reach set. a battle force, an assault squad and a chaplain.
and a commander and command squad i won.


My plan at the moment (for my army) is to have
my death company run as my (well what DC do)
an assault squad with the Sanguinary Priest to make as an extra to help out the tac squad or attack other things.
my tac squad in the rhino is to go through terrain/through or around the battle field so i can get some melta weapons in there (melta gun and multi-melta).
My dev (can split into missile/plasma cannon or stay together) and cover fire my squads.

I had a thought about adding in a DC dead (using the BR dread for now) and giving it a magma grapple and a drop pod, and attacking enemy tanks (now i might not need all those melta bombs on my assault and DC squads.

BUT
i am only looking for like 1500pts and maybe 1750 pts army. i mostly only get small games and the campaigns that we make up there too (mostly 1500pts each)

The community is great and for now (like john says) i can turn one of my tac squads into a DC squad (he said because i bought it and if its not on time i can use other models) <hmmm some kid uses ork boys as tau kroot. and he says he hasn't bought them yet. ???

But there is a guy who has a full Jump pack BA army 1500pts (or was it) 1750pts, (i forgot)
well he had 10 DC on jump packs 2 assault squads 2 hqs on jump packs and, (no wait) one tac (or dev) well 10 men of tac or dev, and it think he had something else too, on jump packs.



>

Yeah, I get that. You're an aussie, right? I feel that pain.

I just bought half my BA army - its 2k, I'm running...

1 reclusiarch

A sanguinary priest

11 DC, 2 fists, 4 mauls
A Land Raider
2x 10 Assaults, 2meltaguns and a maul
2x DC dreadnoughts

a Baal Predator

2 Stormravens.

I was lucky that I already had most of the models, LR from SM codex army, Ravens from GK.

yea. i know i gut who is going to buy new wolf army (space wolfs)

But it would cost over 2k. another guy told him to get off of his ass and strip his old models and not waste money on more new ones. after like 2 weeks he came back saying it will only cost him around 1k now.

he was going to sell off his old models but the best he would get would of been like $200 for like 1k worth.

Hes a good painter it just this stuff sat in the back, he paints store models and they all look great.


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have a look
http://bundyminiaturesgames.webs.com/apps/photos/photo?photoid=171252498

Like all tactical marines, BA tactical marines got a lot better. I like to combat squad out the heavy and buy a razor for the other 5 guys. More heavy weapons!

I can tell you for nothing you have far too points tied in the DC that doesn't score, ie doesn't help you win the game. Dump the DC completely and get troops that score. If you must use DC, get the land raider. But that's still a whole lot of not-scoring with crappy shooting. I rather think DC dreads are junk due to AV 12 and lack of good delivery system. And you have to take DC to get them. Double junk.

I don't much use devastators with BA, but I don't think 10 men is the favored config now. Pretty sure 6 men is the highest people go. Cheap BA ML spam ftw. (I guess)


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And just to temper your expectations: not much in BA codex can be called awesome anymore. Just go look at grey hunters and what CSM can build and you'll be a bit sick to the stomach.

Martel732 wrote:
DC that doesn't score, ie doesn't help you win the

UMmmm. have you read the new rules. DC can take objs even DC dreadnoughts. the "rage" SR has changed, instead of attacking the nearest enemy they get +2 attacks on the charge

They don't have just rage, they have black rage. The black rage special rule specifies that they never count as scoring. Ever. Black rage also gives them the rage rule you refer to. I know the BA inside and out.


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Furthermore, no vehicle of any type counts a scoring in 6th.

hmmm. some guy who plays BA said we could.

Martel732 wrote:Like all tactical marines, BA tactical marines got a lot better. I like to combat squad out the heavy and buy a razor for the other 5 guys. More heavy weapons!

I can tell you for nothing you have far too points tied in the DC that doesn't score, ie doesn't help you win the game. Dump the DC completely and get troops that score. If you must use DC, get the land raider. But that's still a whole lot of not-scoring with crappy shooting. I rather think DC dreads are junk due to AV 12 and lack of good delivery system. And you have to take DC to get them. Double junk.

I don't much use devastators with BA, but I don't think 10 men is the favored config now. Pretty sure 6 men is the highest people go. Cheap BA ML spam ftw. (I guess)


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And just to temper your expectations: not much in BA codex can be called awesome anymore. Just go look at grey hunters and what CSM can build and you'll be a bit sick to the stomach.

I'd tend to disagree; BA still have a lot of cool things.
If you're going to be taking them, you shouldn't be using too many tacticals. Yeah, they're just as good as everyone elses, but your Assault marines are even better - they're faster, can take more specials and even get a discount on transports.

OH NOES THE DC DOESN'T SCORE. ITS TERRIBLE OH NOES.

feth off mate. when you have 2 troop choices anyway, DC might as well be an elites choice. Who the feth cares that they can't score? they will absolutely rape scoring paladins and wolf guard.

Devastators aren't useful in BA. you should be taking ravens or tanks in HS.

DC dreads lack good delivery? What the feth? they have drop pods and storm ravens. Both are dangerous ways to bring them in, and both work well. (Ravens can be assaulted out of - who cares if you have to hover, you just dropped death company dreads on their hard hitter.)

You really don't know a thing about blood angels do you? Honestly mate. 330 points for Death company is not much. The fact that they will absolutely ruin any other death star doesn't even cross your mind, does it? (they don't even need AP2. they just flood them with attacks and guess what? it works.)

Hillbilly wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
DC that doesn't score, ie doesn't help you win the

UMmmm. have you read the new rules. DC can take objs even DC dreadnoughts. the "rage" SR has changed, instead of attacking the nearest enemy they get +2 attacks on the charge

Please say you, not u. Its very annoying.

DC dreadnoughts cannot take objectives and neither can Death company. Doesn't mean they won't win you the game.

Martel732 wrote:They don't have just rage, they have black rage. The black rage special rule specifies that they never count as scoring. Ever. Black rage also gives them the rage rule you refer to. I know the BA inside and out.


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Furthermore, no vehicle of any type counts a scoring in 6th.

^This

That's it. Martel, I'm not sure what army you've been playing, but BA can still kick gak up. They can and do. They aren't top of the pops anymore, but neither are space puppies - just because the game has moved away from assault, doesn't mean that a close ranged (within 24", as BA are.) army isn't usable anymore.

"hmmm. some guy who plays BA said we could."

If I say that we still get +1 init from furious charge, does that make it so? No, you have to read the rules.

@Scipio

I don't know what opponents you've been playing, but the BA demonstrably have a poor codex now. The BA can no longer successfully carry out HTH assaults against many lists in a cost effective manner. Given the fluff, that makes it a poor codex.

The BA *cool* things, but they don't have *good* things. Things that are *point efficient* compared to the opposition codices.

2 troops are insufficient for 2K games. The 330 points wasted on DC could be used to pay for units that actually score. And DC don't rape anyone if they don't assault. I have demonstrated this to BA players at my store over and over. The DC are not nearly as versatile or well protected as say a seer council (which also doesn't score). In general, too much can go wrong with the DC. Single battle cannon hit, for example, and you have a bunch of DC instagib. The DC are very good at losing the BA many games if your opponent knows what they are doing. And for starters that's not allowing their death start to be assaulted by the DC.

Assault squads are not necessarily an auto take for the BA anymore. Often, yes, but they have lost a lot of utility with the furious charge nerf. There are too many lists that field units that we can't HTH effectively.

DC dreads: both stormraven and regular drop pods are bad transports for this unit. Stormraven means the soonest it can assault is turn 3 and the stormraven has to hover to do it. Rubbish. Plus, this method reserves even more of your list. Double rubbish.

Yeah, you can drop pod, but that gives your opponent a turn to a) move away and b) shoot the hell out of its flimsy AV 12 hull. If you haven't noticed, autocannon spam is quite popular, and it works much better on a DC dread than a furioso. Plus, the furioso can accomplish a lot more the turn it comes down.

If you've read my posts, I have never claimed the BA are unusable. They are just severely handicapped compared to what they were in 5th. And many players from that edition are still trying to make those tactics work. If you don't see how the CSM and Space Wolves can consistently trash the crap of the BA in 6th, you aren't looking close enough.

Martel732 wrote:
@Scipio

I don't know what opponents you've been playing, but the BA demonstrably have a poor codex now. The BA can no longer successfully carry out HTH assaults against many lists in a cost effective manner. Given the fluff, that makes it a poor codex.

Necron Wraith/flyer spam, Dark Eldar Beasts and the occasional IG vendetta spam. Oh, and wolves, obviously.

DC have limitations. Notably, their main limitations are that their number one and number two go-to assault units (namely death company and dreads) usually need to be thrown away. While they can very easily deal with every other Deathstar unit available (Paladins are a weakness - those ID I6 weapons really hurt.)

Martel732 wrote:
The BA *cool* things, but they don't have *good* things. Things that are *point efficient* compared to the opposition codices.

2 troops are insufficient for 2K games. The 330 points wasted on DC could be used to pay for units that actually score. And DC don't rape anyone if they don't assault. I have demonstrated this to BA players at my store over and over. The DC are not nearly as versatile or well protected as say a seer council (which also doesn't score). In general, too much can go wrong with the DC. Single battle cannon hit, for example, and you have a bunch of DC instagib. The DC are very good at losing the BA many games if your opponent knows what they are doing. And for starters that's not allowing their death start to be assaulted by the DC.

Assault squads are not necessarily an auto take for the BA anymore. Often, yes, but they have lost a lot of utility with the furious charge nerf. There are too many lists that field units that we can't HTH effectively.

DC dreads: both stormraven and regular drop pods are bad transports for this unit. Stormraven means the soonest it can assault is turn 3 and the stormraven has to hover to do it. Rubbish. Plus, this method reserves even more of your list. Double rubbish.

BA have cool things that don't work. So does every codex. But the units you are saying just don't work, do work. I know they work.

2 troops is four troops. Granted, 5 man squads are weak, and without a transport they do get chewed through, but the point is still there. Trading 1 DC dread for an assault marine squad w/rhino/razorback would solve that problem easily.

DC don't rape if they don't assault. I never claimed this, did I? It can be very hard for an expensive unit like Paladins or WG to hide from DC - they can't go in transports, so usually they have to hide in corners, which for paladins isn't really a good thing given their 24" threat range.

Most opponents know DC but not well enough to effectively cut them out of the game. Charging from a land raider still gives them a 19" threat radius (6" tank move, 6" infantry move, 7" charge) which can make it hard for units to avoid them. (if you can pop their transport, you're set. bringing 2 SR with multi-meltas and Hellstrike missiles is usually enough to pop any ride.)

DC dreads in pods is blatant. It's an early game unit that cannot be used too well, unless you can get a good charge turn 2 or are setting up for a feint LR drop (having a drop pod with a locator beacon, placing a LR in DS reserve and then letting them go to town on your drop pod, hopefully without touching your dreadnought - I've seen it done, I'm not vouching for its effectiveness.)

If you put them in a stormraven, they're a late-game sweeper. If the storm raven gets blown up who cares? the Dread only takes a S4 hit as opposed to a S10 one. You only bring it in when the storm raven's duties are done (that is, anti-flyer and knocking out the worst of enemy armour.) They can remove an opponent from an objective (and I don't mean 'contest', I mean remove.) By the late game, the stormraven's duties are done. It can be sacrificed to the dark gods of 'holycraptheystillholdthatobjectiveletstearthemoffofit.'

Also, you shouldn't be so afraid to hoverstrike your stormravens. It can hurt, but if they're going down turn four or five, your opponent's either ignoring them or has failed to waste them. the former meaning their impact probably wasn't as big as you had hoped or the latter meaning they'd had a bigger impact than you had hoped - either way, they' can be sacrificial.

Martel732 wrote:If you've read my posts, I have never claimed the BA are unusable. They are just severely handicapped compared to what they were in 5th. And many players from that edition are still trying to make those tactics work. If you don't see how the CSM and Space Wolves can consistently trash the crap of the BA in 6th, you aren't looking close enough.

I disagree because I crap on space wolves. CSM, I haven't had the pleasure of playing a game against an effective (competitive) opponent.

BA have taken a hit, I don't disagree. But with proper manoeuvring and planning, they can still be a good army.

Would you still call them tier-one, or have they dropped to tier 2 in your eyes?

Tier 3, actually. Because the main gimmick of the BA got worse in both the core rule book, and compared to the new codices coming out. We don't even have combat tactics, and don't get anything useful to make up for that.

165 points I hear you say? When you buy Chapter Master Gabriel Seth (you can call him a BA name if you desire and use his rules) you won't need that extra 5 points, he's awesome! Stick him with some assault marines / death company and he'll tear the enemy apart if given half the chance

There are a lot more fundamental questions here. I personally would never pay 160 pts for a model with the abilities of Gabriel Seth. He's just another non-eternal warrior mediocre HQ. Most marine HQs are dismal.

Any other hero and i'd agree (i normally run a vanilla captain / chaplain / librarian as my minimum points cost HQ for marines) but for some reason I love Seth, Not to mention the fact that he has a strength 8 rending weapon with the option of ploughing into hordes and auto hitting (in base contact) All in all i think he's worth the points, and when he's leading some suitably nasty CC unit out of a Land Raider into combat i think you'd struggle to say he was "Just another non eternal mediocre HQ" to his face

Not if I'm Marneus Calgar.

I've always loved Seth as well. Had him and some assault Termies in a Land Raider. They wrecked shop. His lack of a power weapon and 3+ armor save are a stumbling block for me though. I love his model however.

Again I have to disagree with Martel. If you use your DC to beat the opponents scoring units and you still have 2 or 3 scoring units left... Even if they could score I wouldn't use them to. They are beat sticks and very good ones.

Crappy shooting? Relentless space marines are crappy shots? Oh you're right they only have BS 4... like every other marine... I'm failing to understand your logic and by the "...I know BA inside and out." it's beginning to sound like you don't. Honestly you are so much on the whole they don't score kick I'm starting to wonder if you know what tactics are and start questioning your credibility.

Even in 5th edition Blood Angels had to pay more than the average marine for things, it's nothing new. DC are a tool like anything else. You don't screw in a screw with a hammer do you?

You assume that your opponent is going to cooperate with you.

I was referring to lack of special or heavy weapon options. Sure, they are BS 4 bolters. But giving them bolters reduces their CC ability for which you are bringing them.

If you can win with the DC, keep on using them. But against a good opponent with a good codex, they are a liability. I'm still hesistant to call the DC "good beat sticks" when they have so much riding on assaulting. And at the same time its not such a big deal to be assault by regular ASM.

I don't care if you question my credibility. People are free to listen to my arguments or reject them. You clearly reject them.

Calm the farm guys. Wait till BA hardcover codexes come out then we can start making judgements. BTW nids rape woo! go swarm

The BA hardcover? You realize the current codex is not that old? The way GW rolls, there won't be a 6th edition BA codex.

I just want to say that i cant add lots of fancy things to my army. eg, flyers and stuff. I dont have much money to use (all in a locked account) and because of the floods i think i wont be able to order in more till march. (the local store is closed)

Plus im still waiting for an assault and a DC squad. (since december)