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If you're unaware, the Minotaur chapter was part of the accursed 21st founding. They quickly gained a fearsome reputation of being over the top in their brutality, and even downright cruel on and off the battlefield before disappearing for almost two thousand years to reappear again. Even this mystery is compounded as it is not even certain that the current chapter is the same as the one as before.

My question is; who are these Astartes? What's the difference (if anything) between before and after their disappearance, where did they go, what did they do, and why did they return?

They're lapdogs of the High Lords of Terra.

So, where did they go, what did they do, and are they the same as they were before?

No idea where they went, but they are arrogant and brutal; the Ultramarines have forbidden them entry to the Realm of Ultramar on pain of death, and other Ultramarine-descended Chapters have also sworn oaths of vengeance against them (due to them insulting Marneus Calgar in public and all but destroying another Ultramarine-descended Chapter, the Inceptors, in a police action of sorts).

Tough crowd, I thought the Inceptors had seceded from the Imperium at the time?

No, they were fighting another Chapter over a matter of honor. The Doom Warriors, if Lexicanum is right. The Minotaurs were sent to restore order, which they did, but virtually the entire XIII Legion hates them as a result, and other Chapters have considered their actions as an over-reaction. Heck, even the Ordo Hereticus are concerned about the Minotaurs' link to the High Lords.

They are a founded from World Eater Geneseed, which is why they are kept on a tight leash by the High Lords. If the truth were ever to get out then it would be rather bad for the Minotaurs and the Lords who sanctioned the use of Traitor Geneseed. Whether it was intended, or by accident (Mr. Bile, I'm looking at you) is a different matter.

I'm guessing the original incarnation of the Chapter had a version of the Butchers Nails, but proved to be too effective and latter Astartes had this either removed or a toned down version, making them easier to control.

Or not.

 Pilau Rice wrote:
They are a founded from World Eater Geneseed, which is why they are kept on a tight leash by the High Lords.

Like the Blood Ravens are supposed to be, huh?

The geneseed is unknown. I would consider it a witty irony myself if the Minotaurs came from Ultramarine geneseed.

 Admiral Valerian wrote:

 Pilau Rice wrote:
They are a founded from World Eater Geneseed, which is why they are kept on a tight leash by the High Lords.

Like the Blood Ravens are supposed to be, huh?

Maybeeee

 Pilau Rice wrote:

 Admiral Valerian wrote:

 Pilau Rice wrote:
They are a founded from World Eater Geneseed, which is why they are kept on a tight leash by the High Lords.

Like the Blood Ravens are supposed to be, huh?

Maybeeee

Lol

Still, its a fun bit of speculation. Much more so than 'descendant of X Chapter gone wrong'.

Personally I don't think that the High Lords would sanction any use of Traitor Geneseed to be used, ever. But whether the 21st was intended to be a normal founding and the interference of Bile led to it being used or the good geneseed being manipulated to take on aspects of the Traitors or entirely new creations seems to be the case.

Does anyone have any theories or even an idea where they went for two thousand years?

 DemetriDominov wrote:
Does anyone have any theories or even an idea where they went for two thousand years?

On a picnic into darkspace ?

 DemetriDominov wrote:
Does anyone have any theories or even an idea where they went for two thousand years?

Beyound the shining beacon of the Astronomicon perhaps, or they dedicated themselves to figthing foes only the top brass of the IoM knows about. My bet would either be Slaugth or something to that rather foul nature. Or failing that they all went to crysleep for all those years.

Lost in the warp? that's always the most convenient way to explain something going missing for a long time

I am thinking ti just took that long to decide on a new paint scheme and get their gear repainted. The original chapter colors and the current are very different.

 Pilau Rice wrote:
They are a founded from World Eater Geneseed

Pure fan speculation.


The truth is, there's no answer to this. Forge World gets very excited about writing new "Mysterious Chapters" like this. If you notice, like half of the Chapters they get to write the background for have mysterious origins (Red Scorpions, Space Sharks, Minotaurs, Red Hunters, etc). I put it up to boredom and a lack of creativity. Writing the background for all these chapters has to feel redundant after a while, I imagine. If you break the mold and write a Unique Snowflake chapter, it's less work.

 DemetriDominov wrote:
Does anyone have any theories or even an idea where they went for two thousand years?

Remember, time in the Warp and time in realspace can be completely different. It's likely that they went in and came out within a few months, but time sped past in reality so when they emerged it was thousands of years later.

 Veteran Sergeant wrote:

 Pilau Rice wrote:
They are a founded from World Eater Geneseed

Pure fan speculation.

Hence the 'Or not' at the end of my post and then my other post that says I doubt they would use Traitor Geneseed in any founding.

 Pilau Rice wrote:

 Veteran Sergeant wrote:

 Pilau Rice wrote:
They are a founded from World Eater Geneseed

Pure fan speculation.

Hence the 'Or not' at the end of my post and then my other post that says I doubt they would use Traitor Geneseed in any founding.

Loyalist survivors of the traitor legions who might have founded new Chapters aside (Garro, Loken, Arvida, Dantioch, etc.), no, they probably wouldn't have used said gene-seed afterwards.

 Admiral Valerian wrote:

 Pilau Rice wrote:

 Veteran Sergeant wrote:

 Pilau Rice wrote:
They are a founded from World Eater Geneseed

Pure fan speculation.

Hence the 'Or not' at the end of my post and then my other post that says I doubt they would use Traitor Geneseed in any founding.

Loyalist survivors of the traitor legions who might have founded new Chapters aside (Garro, Loken, Arvida, Dantioch, etc.), no, they probably wouldn't have used said gene-seed afterwards.

I doubt they would have used any Geneseed from a traitor in a founding. Regardless of how dedicated and loyal those you mentioned were to the Emperor they still had traitor Geneseed inside of them, could they run the risk of founding legions from a potentially corrupt source. Were you to place Garro's Gene Seed into a new recruit , they might not prove as resilient to Chaos and they might exploit this weakness.

 Pilau Rice wrote:

 Admiral Valerian wrote:

 Pilau Rice wrote:

 Veteran Sergeant wrote:

 Pilau Rice wrote:
They are a founded from World Eater Geneseed

Pure fan speculation.

Hence the 'Or not' at the end of my post and then my other post that says I doubt they would use Traitor Geneseed in any founding.

Loyalist survivors of the traitor legions who might have founded new Chapters aside (Garro, Loken, Arvida, Dantioch, etc.), no, they probably wouldn't have used said gene-seed afterwards.

I doubt they would have used any Geneseed from a traitor in a founding. Regardless of how dedicated and loyal those you mentioned were to the Emperor they still had traitor Geneseed inside of them, could they run the risk of founding legions from a potentially corrupt source. Were you to place Garro's Gene Seed into a new recruit , they might not prove as resilient to Chaos and they might exploit this weakness.

That's probably true

Though, given how the Horus Heresy series is still incomplete, and with several Chapters with no known origin, I can hope, can't I? Even if hope is supposedly out of place in the 41st Millennium, its not in the 31st Millennium.

Most certainly, I'm in no way correct, it's just my opinion on the matter.

Their of course could be loyalist Chapters formed from the Traitor Marines and the whole Blood Ravens are Thousand Sons loyalists is a prime example, like you pointed out earlier.

IA vol. 10 states that the Minotaur geneseed is "chimeric" and that the Magos Biologos may have arrogantly used "forbidden" sources for the 21st Founding. So that's as close as we get to an answer. IA vol. 10 says nothing about the World Eaters. That is totally fan speculation based on IA vol. 10 comments that prior to their disappearance they were known for their extreme brutality. I believe IA vol. 10 uses the word beserk or berserker at some point, from which fans have inferred the World Eaters connection.

 Pilau Rice wrote:


Their of course could be loyalist Chapters formed from the Traitor Marines and the whole Blood Ravens are Thousand Sons loyalists is a prime example, like you pointed out earlier.

TBH, I initially dismissed that theory as fanon...until I read Rebirth and connected the dots with some facts from A Thousand Sons. Granted, its somewhat circumstantial evidence at best, but its certainly intriguing at the least.

 Manchu wrote:
IA vol. 10 states that the Minotaur geneseed is "chimeric" and that the Magos Biologos may have arrogantly used "forbidden" sources for the 21st Founding. So that's as close as we get to an answer. IA vol. 10 says nothing about the World Eaters. That is totally fan speculation based on IA vol. 10 comments that prior to their disappearance they were known for their extreme brutality. I believe IA vol. 10 uses the word beserk or berserker at some point, from which fans have inferred the World Eaters connection.

Also the rules for them from the the Playing Cursed Founding Army also mentions them as Berserkers, as well as the Sons of Anteus being as resilient as the Death Guard.

http://redelf.naxx.ru/w40k/ia/w40k_ia_cf_0.html

Yes but it hardly suggests a connection to the World Eaters:

Berserkers: Some Cursed Founding Space Marines, such as the Minotaurs Chapter, are entirely consumed by a xenophobic hatred that far surpasses the righteous fury of a normal Space Marine.

That sounds more like the Red Scorpions than the World Eaters.

 Manchu wrote:
Yes but it hardly suggests a connection to the World Eaters:

Berserkers: Some Cursed Founding Space Marines, such as the Minotaurs Chapter, are entirely consumed by a xenophobic hatred that far surpasses the righteous fury of a normal Space Marine.

That sounds more like the Red Scorpions than the World Eaters.

I think it was also similar to the rules for actual Khorne Beserkers at the time and that all World Eaters are Beserkers, or were according the, I think, 3.5 Codex.

No doubt that entry resembles even modern Khornate Berserkers rules-wise. But the World Eaters are hardly doing out of xenophobia, is what I meant.