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With the growing popularity of Kickstarter as a way to either pre-order or grow a game concept I thought I would compile some numbers on the perceived value of some recent projects. There are three types of projects I looked at-the board game, skirmish game, and table top war game. I am also including a benchmark product from a known company that is popular. In all the comparisons I am trying to compare apples to apples. Thererfore I will be noting at what level you would get a two player game. Let me start with board games.

The benchmark for board games is Super Dungeon Explore from Cool Mini or Not. It costs 100$ USD and comes with 52 miniatures, rules, board, and bits. This game is popular and has a very good rating on the Board Game Geek website. At this base price each mini would cost 1.92$.

Here are two recent board games from Kickstarter. Zombicide also from CMoN is a zombie apocalypse board game. The base price is 100$ and 71 minis are included in the box. That's 1.41$ per mini. At the end of the Kickstarter the game included a whopping 114 minis to the tune of .88 cents each! The second game is Dreadball from Mantic games. The base price is also 100$ and you would get 25 minis for a per each price of 4.00$. O.K. that doesn't seem so great, but at the end of the Kickstarter 30 minis were added for a net of 1.82$ per mini. Currently Rivet Wars is going on right now on Kickstarter. The base price is 90$ and includes 36 minis at 2.50$ each. The project is ongoing at this point but the value has gone up, adding 8 minis to bring the price to 2.04$ each.

Now on to skirmish games. The benchmark is Privateer Press' Hordes two player starter set. It has 20 mini in the box along with the rules. That's 5.00$ each.

From the Kickstarter we have Backwater Gulch from Gangfight Games. I looked at the second Kickstarter they had and here are some numbers. At the level you would get 2 factions to play with it was 60$, however you only got 12 minis at 5.00$ each. No new stretch goals were added at this level so at the end of the Kickstarter there were still only 12 minis for 60$. I also looked at Endless: Fantasy Tactics from On the Lamb Games. To get enough minis to have a game with you would need to pledge 100$. At that level you would get 10 minis at 10$ each, by the end of the Kickstarter two more minis were added to bring the total to 12 at 8.33$ each. Right now on Kickstarter Merce Miniatures is featuring their Darklands game. To get two factions your pledge level would have to be 175$, and at that level you would get 22 minis at 7.95$ each. There have been some stretch goals met and two more minis would be added for a total now of 24 for a per each price of 7.00$

Table top games are last, and the benchmark is Games Workshop Dark Vengeance starter set. It cost 100$ (I'm seeing a trend here ) and has 48 minis. That would make them 2.06$ each.

The Kickstarter game I chose is Mantic's Kings of War. To get a two player game you would need to pledge 125$, and that would give you 87 minis. They would be 1.43$ each. By the end of the Kickstarter 12 more minis were added to bring the per each price to 1.26$ for 99 of them. Currently Beyond the Gates of Antares is running on Kickstarter. To get enough minis for two players to have a game the pledge level is 198$, and you would get 65 minis. That comes out to 3.04$ each. There have been no add on's at this level, but the Kickstarter has 41 more days so there could be more by the end.

So are Kickstarter driven miniature games good value? Well that depends on many things. The company, designer, look, game play, style, and rules all have much to do with whether or not someone feels a Kickstarter is a good value. It should be noted that many Kickstarters have a "sweet spot" built into them. For example in Backwater Gulch if you pledged 100$ it would have added 14 more minis for a per each price of 3.84$ instead of 5.00$. Likewise if you pledged 175$ with the Kings of War project you would have come away with 158 minis for 1.10$ each.

Just as a note-I dd not use the Kingdom Death:Monster Kickstarter in this exercise because it doesn't really fit neatly into any one of the above categories. It has board game, skirmish and role-playing aspects to it.

Where is your Kickstarter value point? Do you jump on the early bird pledges, or hang back until you see how much swag you can get at what price? When do you feel a project just isn't a good deal? Thanks for reading.

If I like the models, or if I like the sound of the rules, I may pledge.

That's how I roll.

I don't do things like "Well if I pledge $80 I could get a free miniature, and that would alter the cost from $4.00 to $3.87, which is nice value".

The value in a kickstarter is not really in the monetary value, but in the value of the actual merchandise.

If that makes any sense at all.

for me it all depends on the project, if its something I really believe in and want to succeed like dreamforge then I'm going to through my money at it regardless of what I get in return....if its something I dont really "need" but its too good of a deal to pass up, like the reaper bones KS then I'll put money towards it

Value is subjective.

Your analysis seems based purely on numbers, namely model count. Model quality, materials (resin vs plastic vs metal), and model size weigh heavily on perceived value, I'd imagine.

Relic Knights serves nicely as an example. For $100 you got 2 Faction Starter Sets and 2 Special Edition miniatures. There are 6 factions to choose from. Aside from the unique aesthetic to each faction, the starter sets also differ in that they don't all include the same number of miniatures. Yet monetarily the value is identical; $50 each. You can see the difference between sets here.

Black Diamond: 19 models / $50 = ~$2.63 per model.
Noh: 11 models / $50 = ~$4.55 per model.

Note: For the purposes above Relic Knights and Questing Knights are counted as two models (Knight and Cypher).

The price difference is significant even for models/sets in the same Kickstarter campaign. So you have people that pledged at the $100 Savior level with very different amounts of 'bang' for their buck.

Personally, the aesthetic comes first. If I like the way the game, and maybe more importantly, miniatures look then I'm more inclined to pledge. I can't affix a hard number and say it must be X miniatures for Y dollars. Rivet Wars is the first time I jumped on an early bird special in anticipation of what it would grow to be worth. The quality of my Super Dungeon Explore leads me to believe it'll be good. So far I haven't been disappointed.

Edit: I realize you mention what I'm talking about, I'm just emphasizing a point.

2nd Edit:

For the $180 Double Savior initially pledged to Relic Knights, I felt I was getting good value. 4 Faction Starters, 4 S.E. miniatures, and 2 Lithorgraphs! I ended up giving them more of my money through the post-kickstarter pledge manager and am happy with what I'm getting.

Kingdom Death took much monies from me. The $130 Survivor blossomed into an almost $500 pledge. I don't feel as good walking away from this one as I did Relic Knights. Still glad with it, though. But a larger part of my involvement with KD:M seems a gamble since it's contingent on the gameplay. Whereas RK was mostly for the models.

If I see something I like (and have the money to get it) I'll jump in as soon as I can

I got sedition wars, and consider it a real bargain, a game and a bucket of cool minis for $100

I also backed the Haar Miniatures indiegogo, a single mini for $22 (fancy packing & cards included), in purely cash terms that was expensive, but I liked what I saw and could afford it

I've yet to fund a project that I didn't at least like when I first saw it, so I'd say the quality of what your're selling (mini/game/rules/vision) is far more important than the 'value'.

I would love for someone to do the documentation of:

*Cost per mini per size per pledge (usually larger pledges get more minis)
*What the company released minis for at retail

I find 5-8$ a mini is generally what a lot of the mini makers seem to be aiming for when they release at RETAIL. Of course, a lot has to do with how the mini is made and how many are being made, 1000 resin single minis will cost more than 50k 8 per sprue plastics.

I feel like a KS has to have a perceived value of 'cheaper than retail' to gain people's interest. It isn't that people expect all models to be 1.92$ each, but they expect if the companies 'RETAIL' release will be 2.50$ a mini, the KS is cheaper than that. If another company has a different process and the retail will be 8$ a mini, then people expect a % off that... I think people buy what they want, not what is cheaper, and judge based upon perceived discount due to bulk buy or pre-buy.


There was a KS I was on the fence about because the price was a little high, but I felt the 'early bird' prices were good. Of course I missed the early bird slots. I checked back every day and I guess someone changed packages or dropped out as there was an Early bird one open. So I pledged it and now I am happy.

I feel 5-8$ a model is the cost for 'low run' castings

I feel 3$ or less is for high production plastics.

That is what I observe/expect as a KS pledge person.

Oooh, kickstarter wonkyness... I have some passing interest.

The problem with any analysis of kickstarter campaigns (as I have become aware) is each campaign is so idiosyncratic, their target audience expectations so different, that any comparison is profoundly problematic.

Consider KD:M. For the vast majority of the individual purchases, there was no discount. Consider that; resin pin-ups were made available at basically retail price (granted, functionally less, since shipping and tax are excluded). Yet, these were still immensely attractive, why? One possible reason is that price has never been the main barrier to purchase for customers of KD, availability has been the issue. I've jumped from my bed early in the morning to buy first run collector's editions, sometimes seeing them run out of stock even as I wondered if I really wanted one or the other.

So, KD:M was able to sell things at a price point that really wouldn't have flown in another context: for example, Through the Breach, the Malifaux campaign, offered a reward of "multi-pose miniature" kits, and there was great debate about how to value them. KD:M made available the armor kits for the game, at 4 models for $25, 20 for $50, and people were very excited, despite these perhaps not being wildly exciting prices... because these were not going to be available separately after the campaign (I know that I have pledged for armor sets that I don't have a specific use for because I can get them now, and won't be able to get them later).

Similarly, though the pin-ups are theoretically "general release", in practice the demand far outstrips the supply currently. So you have people pledging to get pin-ups (almost a year ahead of time!) simply because they can't otherwise seem to snag them.

Value is subjective: just look at the current crop of complaints about Sedition Wars, where people are discovering that the legendary McVey quality that applied to table top miniatures is not exactly the same quality that will be applied to board game miniatures.

 Buzzsaw wrote:


Value is subjective: just look at the current crop of complaints about Sedition Wars, where people are discovering that the legendary McVey quality that applied to table top miniatures is not exactly the same quality that will be applied to board game miniatures.

I also feel like people judge value based upon the concept of:

*If I bid now and add my large purchase to the pot, this figure which would NEVER EXIST will now exist.
vs
*If I bid now and add my large purchase to the pot, this figure which is already made and going to be released I can get for slightly cheaper.

I have pledged extra money and bought larger KS with the goal of helping 'make more models' with the expectation I could BUY bulk and sell or gift the extras away, but in doing so, we got 20 new sculpts instead of 5. And because there is a bonus for bulk, I can get models which were 5$ for 3.50$ so I save money, get new things sculpted out of thin air and can sell my extras down the road.

I have also NOT pledged money because the KS had models which I wanted, but that was all they were making or planning to offer and that was that. So I bought 1 of each that I wanted, and that was that. And in turn, there was much less 'frenzy' to throw more money and no incentive to buy bulk to drive up the KS value.

Buzzsaw-Your post spurred me to make this one. You make some great points on KD:M which is why I left it out of my research. Thanks.


nkelsch-On your first post, first point: that was what I was saying about the "sweet spot" of pledges. Right now the Rivet Wars sweet spot is at 150$. At that level you get about 50% more minis than just buying into the base game. That Kickstarter is not over either. Who knows how high that number will go if people keep pledging and the bonus count keeps going up.

So far I've mostly supported video games, but I have branched out to things like the dicerings and am looking at various miniature releases. In the end, I can't really give you much of a specific price cut-off-- it really does matter what is being offered and how much I like it, more than anything.

Generally speaking, Mantic offers freebies as stretch goals right up until a 70% discount from RRP is attained, at which point it runs out of room to discount further. It is as far as they can go without losing money.

It did this with both KoW and Dreadball for the highest pledge levels. $225 for KoW, $150 for Dreadball.

All of the money it raises in KS projects gets spent on artwork, sculpting and tooling for the miniatures, as well as producing and shipping them.

They run a very tight ship while trying to offer as much "help us out and we'll give you a ton of free stuff" value as possible. A new bank account gets opened for each separate KS, and all the money goes into it to keep it seperate from the rest of their capital.

If you want value, wait for the Warpath KS, it's going to be awesome.

A bit problem for me is that there seems to be so many of them, I'm really unsure which ones to look at, keep track of, and invest in. Especially given my very specific tastes in miniatures at the moment (I want minis I can use on the tabletop in 40k, primarily)...

On the point of value, I want to bring up Beyond the Gates of Antares (Dakka thread).

Looking at the required £300,000 goal, the current £86,000 seems paltry even though it's almost a third of the total and there are still 41 days left.

The concept sounds really great: people with experience in wargaming want to start a new tabletop miniatures wargame and have listed a realistic goal for launching whole-hog into the market. Moreover, they want potential player / customer / backer input in the design of the game so that they can be sure it's something we'll want.

Ironically this is also what's holding me back from pledging to it. Since the Gates of Antares is very much in its infancy, there's not much to gauge the value of any particular pledge.

Part of the reward is contribution to the game via input on their Backer Development Program; nebulous at best seeing as input can be suggested but not enacted. I could be buying a whole lot of nothing or even frustration if my words repeatedly fall on deaf ears. The models aren't the selling point either. You can pledge for an army but an army of what?

The purpose of their kickstarter is what the whole process was designed for and their goal is something I'd like to see realized. In this instance, if I pledge, the idea itself would have to be valuable enough to warrant the buy-in.

The only thing that determines the value of a kick starter is how cool the models look, and how many of them I get.

If it looks good, it's worth it. The more of them, the better.

This.

It doesn't matter if it's an $80 box game with 397 miniatures if I don't like the look of it.

If the game genre doesn't appeal or the model aesthetics don't appeal, I'm not getting into it.

nkelsch wrote:


I also feel like people judge value based upon the concept of:

*If I bid now and add my large purchase to the pot, this figure which would NEVER EXIST will now exist.
vs
*If I bid now and add my large purchase to the pot, this figure which is already made and going to be released I can get for slightly cheaper.

This is largely how I look at it; Am I helping fund things new or am I just pre-ordering stuff? If funding new I'd be expecting to get things nearer cost, with the company not making much profit from it (beyond the product development, they make their money on selling the product). If it's just pre-ordering I'd want to see a discount that fits with the risk and wait.

For instance, at the value of the Reaper KS I couldn't not get in on it, and whilst I'm under the impression they may lose out slightly in cash terms, it has given them a huge expanded product range well ahead of time, and the capital to move production to the US. I get a great deal and they get a better deal than if the money came from a bank or venture capital.

On the other hand, I dropped out of the KD:M KS near the end because I didn't think the discount on plastic pinups (~15%) combined with the shipping was worth the years lead time. I'll buy some if/when I see them in shops.

What else I'm doing with my money is also a factor, at the time of Reaper it was the only KS I was watching, at the KD:M it was 1 of 4, and I felt the others provided more value for my investment.

Hmmm well I'm kinda in the same boat as Melissia, KS has mostly been vidya games for me the only minis KS I've backed has been the /excellent/ Dream Forge Games. Now I know how I calculated value for my purchase. I spent just over $280 with shipping for the following

2x Leviathan Crusaders at roughly $165 for two
3x Weapon arms (+1 free arm) $75
1x extra bonus figure $5
10x Assault Troopers $19
1x 10 woman "Black Widow" squad $20

Freebies:
2x "Excalibur" sword upgrades
2x Capacitor Engine upgrades
2x Left handed Assault cannon upgrades
(all for the leviathan crusaders)
1x "Hero" Freebie (Ada)
1x Shadokesh Handler and Feral

So on the surface this seems like a low model count but when compared to GW prices for the nearest equivalents:

A warhound titan is probably one of the only models out there that's a real direct comparison for a Leviathan, not many people are in the "Giant robot model" business.

For $89 you get a Leviathan, a vulkan cannon and CCW arm in high quality plastic and it's weapons arms are interchangeable (and it's poseable, which is sick)

A warhound from forgeworld is in resin and will run you $500 with two weapons arms. You can probably work out a way to swap them, but I don't think it's a native ability.

For the Assault troopers I'll compare them to what I'm using them for, assault termies.
10 models for $19 vs. 10 models for $100, both in high quality plastic. The terminators have some more wargear options I think. Even dropping down to a SM tactical squad the Assault Troopers are a pretty good deal and imho look awesome.

The black widows are 10 for $20 in the same quality plastic, and from initial renders are some of the most BA scifi females out there. They're pose-able, have a variety of wargear options included in the box including special/heavy weapons.

To compare to another female scifi range we have the Sisters of Battle on deck with a 10 troop squad with only basic wargear options (bolters for all!) no real bits, pose-ability or changes in pose, in metal for $64

Honestly the rest of the KS had some even better deals, I'm really kicking myself for not getting one of the 20 man stormtrooper boxes.

So I got some awesome minis that really stand out compared to other product lines for a price that really can't be beat by any one on the market for the quality and do actually have a game unique to them forth coming.

I think I came out pretty well.

So far i've only backed the Kings of War Kickstarter.

I backed for $225 and i'm really happy with what i've so far recieved and what i will be getting in the next few months.


I received...


Goblin Army
Goblin Spitters (80), Goblin Rabble (60), Goblin Sharpsticks (40), War-Trombones (3) (Includes 2 crew per), Mawbeast Pack (10), Goblin Sneek(1), Goblin and Mawbeast (1) (2 separate models).

Limited edition Orc Shaman Miniature

and a signed hardback rulebook.

So total of 203 Minis

In the next few months i should be getting my bonus minis which are...

1 x Orc Chariot
1 x Mounted Undead Standard Bearer
3 x Werewolves
3 x Ogres
3 x Trolls
5 x Mummies
5 x Gargoyles
5 x Dwarf Cavalry
5 x Elf Palace Guard
5 x Goblin Cavalry
5 x Elf Cavalry
5 x Twilight Kin Cavalry
3 x Celestian Paladin Angels
5 x Celestian Sisters
5 x Celestian Men at Arms
5 x Celestian Paladins
3 x Abyssal Golems
1 x Ogre Hero
5 x Celestian Knights
1 x Goblin Mincer
5 x Celestian Cat Cavalry
1 x Skeleton dog handler + Dog
5 x Hero minis

So a total of an extra 86 Minis


So a total of 289 Minis Including Warmachines/Cavalry etc.

So that works out at $0.77 Per Mini.

All in all i'm very happy with it.

I do wish i backed the Reaper Bones Kickstarter as well though.

Wow! Wish I'd gotten on board with the Mantic KS, are the Celestians going to receive a general release? They sound pretty awesome.

Edit: Looks like 2014 time frame, drat what a wait!

But I'm amazed at their army deals at retail... I mean wow. Never seen GW put value out like that, though the impression I get is Kings of War requires you to put /a lot/ of bases on the table.

The model count isn't exactly the part in parcel of the project.

Maybe for CMON, but generally we're funding a specific project, and the "Sweet spot" pledge is sort of a trade off of an unwritten agknowledgement/ deal, and a projects willingness to put up something or another for a specific funding number.

Usually these numbers for the minis games are around 100-200 with CMON looking for 250, and other smaller company projects for 150.

Issues not taken into account have to do with overall logistics and distribution, which point of fact is looking to be the biggest hurdle for most of them.

Personnally, it is based on particular projects. I don't just arbitarily say- Hey give me the most miniatures, I WANT THEM ALL!!!!

Several games come to mind, and the figures to me are the rebound gift for the loan, so to speak. ( Your buddy borrows five bucks, they give you your money back, and take you out to dinner, is an easy way to look at it.)

I can see where you dig hard on CMON, but those particular projects have a tendancy of being victims of thier own success.
They promise you 100-1000 mini's, then people get pissed because they are late/ can't deliver/ have issues on the rebound.

SO not the least of the fact that it is a company that has pretty much dictated HOW EXACTLY KS is basicly a preorder interest guaging tool, they have the process almost down to a science.

2 million dollars, per project. All they have to do is put a logo on it, shill out a candy/ cola mini, and viola.... they get funded in spades, with a little bit of work on thier end as to distribution.

Not a bad way to make a buck, if I say so myself. And if any issues come up with the game, all they have to say is- Hey, not my issue, all I worry about is the distribution. ( You can always buy it from the website, though...after we hash out the details... )


Lower key projects work just as well. Some keep thier standards high, and expectations reaslistic, some try to fund some sort of lofty unsubstance based stuff that ends up being a greek ( or geek) tragedy.
They arn't looking for a million, and they sure as heck don't need the additional aggravation of overextending thier resources with 100 different optionals.

Best ones I have seen, ones with a realistic plan, a vision, a follow through. Communication and updates, realistic expectations, and not just putting all the eggs in one basket. (The ones doing it for startup projetcs, and following up with clear cut results.