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Stormhawk – Storm Class Dogfighter

180 points
BS4 FAV12 SAV12 RAV11 HP3 (Flyer)

Special rules:

Dogfighter:
Stormhawks have highly tuned targeting systems which make firing at ground targets very difficult. As a result, Stormhawks cannot fire at targets that are not in airspace very easily.
A stormhawk may only snap fire at ground targets.

Sky-high hunter
Stormhawks are responder craft, sent out by Astartes battle barges to deal with enemy planetary air support. A stormhawk can elect to stay in ongoing reserves. It does this until an enemy flyer enters play – entering play the following turn.

This Flyer has been targeted. The Stormhawk gains re-rolls to hit and to wound/penetrate on that target, but may not target any other craft or ground unit – this is until either the target flyer is destroyed, or one or other flyer leaves combat airspace.

A Stormhawk that leaves combat airspace may re-enter ongoing reserves in a similar way. NB: if there are flyers on the field the following turn, the stormhawk must enter play. It may choose its target if there are multiple targets.

Wargear

Stormhawk Missile Launcher

6 Stormstrike missiles:

These are blood strike missiles effectively.
RA:72” S8 AP1 Type: Heavy 1 One shot

Stormhawk missile launcher:
RA:72” S8 AP1 Type: Heavy 2.

NB: this intentionally means that the model is effectively firing 4 bloodstrike missiles per turn. The better to knock out enemy flyers with.

Designers notes: this model is powerful. I Get that. But it’s also a gamble: Its near-useless against an army with no flyers but will comfortably take out 1-3 flyers before being laid low (hopefully.) Thus, pricing is justified against rules. Still, I wouldn’t suggest that this unit be allowed in anything other than an all-comers list – Its unfairly priced if you KNOW your opponent will have flyers, but fairly priced if you don’t know what your opponent is bringing.

Have it with a dogfighter option or a bommer option

bommer?

do you mean bomber?

No. That'd ruin it being a 'dogfighter'.

Stom raven interceptor
Have the same stats as you impose
Wepons mangna melta or multi melta
Assult cannon and missile pods

Can take targeting sensors +20
Allow you to hit ground targets at bs
If you take these you can have incedery calesstan missiels sm codex and under slung mangna melta


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Stom raven interceptor
Have the same stats as you impose
Wepons mangna melta or multi melta
Assult cannon and missile pods

Can take targeting sensors +20
Allow you to hit ground targets at bs
If you take these you can have incedery calesstan missiels sm codex + 60 and under slung mangna melta +40

wargey wrote:
Stom raven interceptor
Have the same stats as you impose
Wepons mangna melta or multi melta
Assult cannon and missile pods

Can take targeting sensors +20
Allow you to hit ground targets at bs
If you take these you can have incedery calesstan missiels sm codex and under slung mangna melta

I "Impose"

What's a "Magna Melta"
When do SM ever get "Missile Pods''

Why introduce Targeting sensors on something that's intentionally meant to be anti-flyer?

what the hell do incendiary castellan missiles have to do with anything?

Furthermore who the hell taught you to spell? I

Magna melta is a wepon from the predetor infurnus
Ground targating sensors
Missile pods ok then space marine missile canesters count as a missile pod
Incendery missiles are from the whirlwind

 Scipio Africanus wrote:

wargey wrote:
Stom raven interceptor
Have the same stats as you impose
Wepons mangna melta or multi melta
Assult cannon and missile pods

Can take targeting sensors +20
Allow you to hit ground targets at bs
If you take these you can have incedery calesstan missiels sm codex and under slung mangna melta

I "Impose"

What's a "Magna Melta"
When do SM ever get "Missile Pods''

Why introduce Targeting sensors on something that's intentionally meant to be anti-flyer?

what the hell do incendiary castellan missiles have to do with anything?

Furthermore who the hell taught you to spell? I

No need to be abusive and come across as an arrogant arse.

His spelling is difficult to read, though, and I would suggest proof reading instead of disclaimer in signature. Think of all the people whose native language is not "local dialect of county X in country Y". We'd like to read your stuff as well and proper English is an order of magnitude easier to read than lazy or local English.
By the way, phonetic spelling is harder than real grammar and requires a lot more proof reading and more knowledge of how letter combinations are meant to be read out loud. That would be Miss Isles not missiels (whose phonetic pronunciation is Miss Eels, and she does not reside on the British Isles, she's from Scandinavia).

As for the topic at hand, it does not seem overpowered at 180 points when compared to other aircrafts. Then again, the immunity aircrafts at AV12 enjoy is borderline despicable and people who defend current aircrafts and lament over Clown Cars from 4th edition should hang themselves in shame.
I would suggest more options be added to expand or tweak the arsenal and more importantly to have the ongoing reserve to be a one-time-only effect that is decided during deployment. Preferably targeting a specific flyer. Maybe he can only make snap shots until that flyer is down - and more importantly allow him to shoot at a flyer that goes Swooping or Hovering.
Also, maybe let the re-usable missile pod be a bit weaker than the one-shot arsenal? It makes no sense for it to have one-shot missiles that are exactly the same as the ones that apparently have no relevant ammunitions limit. Maybe replace that missile pod with two las cannons and then allow for autocannons as an option?

I am happy that you did NOT give it Agile and/or Vector Dancer - few imperial crafts should have those and none of them should be Space Marine.

4 S8 AP1 shots on the turn AFTER another flyer comes in. 3 hit, gets 1 pen with a 50% chance to explode an enemy flyer.

I don't think it's a gamble at all. It's a 180 point unit that can destroy any other flyer on the table and with AV12 and 11 in the rear with 3 hullpoints. It can choose to stay in reserves until an enemy flyer comes in, so keeping it perfectly safe against other flyers. On top of that it also gets reroll of to hit AND to pen when ever it comes from reserves with an enemy flyer on the table. Which gives you 1.6 pens and .9 glances and still 50% chance to explode.

You're paying 180 points so you can be the only player with a flyer. That's not what I would call a gamble. You made it so it is bad against ground targets, but it is so finely tuned against flyers that you really can't call that a drawback.

 Savageconvoy wrote:

You're paying 180 points so you can be the only player with a flyer. That's not what I would call a gamble. You made it so it is bad against ground targets, but it is so finely tuned against flyers that you really can't call that a drawback.

Well, the Imperial Guard pays only 130 points for it . And it can transport troops, wreck ground targets and so on...

This Stormhawk sounds cool, but personally, I don't like its weapons and special rules. The "negative-Skyfire" is good, but I would scrap the other special rule and give Supersonic and/or Vector Dancer instead. For weapons, I would give it a twin-linked Assault Cannon, a twin-linked Lascannon and 8 Skystrike Missiles.

Valkyrie wrote:No need to be abusive and come across as an arrogant arse.

Yes there is. He's a british person. He doesn't care about giving me the respect to type english so why should I give him anywhere near the same respect.

He is Lazy, not stupid. I find it downright insulting.

Mahtamori wrote:
As for the topic at hand, it does not seem overpowered at 180 points when compared to other aircrafts. Then again, the immunity aircrafts at AV12 enjoy is borderline despicable and people who defend current aircrafts and lament over Clown Cars from 4th edition should hang themselves in shame.
I would suggest more options be added to expand or tweak the arsenal and more importantly to have the ongoing reserve to be a one-time-only effect that is decided during deployment. Preferably targeting a specific flyer. Maybe he can only make snap shots until that flyer is down - and more importantly allow him to shoot at a flyer that goes Swooping or Hovering.
Also, maybe let the re-usable missile pod be a bit weaker than the one-shot arsenal? It makes no sense for it to have one-shot missiles that are exactly the same as the ones that apparently have no relevant ammunitions limit. Maybe replace that missile pod with two las cannons and then allow for autocannons as an option?

I am happy that you did NOT give it Agile and/or Vector Dancer - few imperial crafts should have those and none of them should be Space Marine.

I responded to the english already. He is british, he can't use 'ESL' as an excuse.

Do you mean twin-linked lascannons? or simply two lascannons? I don't see how exchanging autocannons as an option is necessary then.

If you mean a TL Lascannon for a Hydra autocannon, sounds cool.

Savageconvoy wrote:4 S8 AP1 shots on the turn AFTER another flyer comes in. 3 hit, gets 1 pen with a 50% chance to explode an enemy flyer.

I don't think it's a gamble at all. It's a 180 point unit that can destroy any other flyer on the table and with AV12 and 11 in the rear with 3 hullpoints. It can choose to stay in reserves until an enemy flyer comes in, so keeping it perfectly safe against other flyers. On top of that it also gets reroll of to hit AND to pen when ever it comes from reserves with an enemy flyer on the table. Which gives you 1.6 pens and .9 glances and still 50% chance to explode.

You're paying 180 points so you can be the only player with a flyer. That's not what I would call a gamble. You made it so it is bad against ground targets, but it is so finely tuned against flyers that you really can't call that a drawback.

What do you suggest I remove? the twin-linked bonus or the hider bonus?

Maybe, keep the hider rule but reduce armour to 11/11/11?

I'm dislecsick
(Can't spell)
You will smash any flyer but would be shot up by aa guns

 Scipio Africanus wrote:

Valkyrie wrote:No need to be abusive and come across as an arrogant arse.

Yes there is. He's a british person. He doesn't care about giving me the respect to type english so why should I give him anywhere near the same respect.

He is Lazy, not stupid. I find it downright insulting.

No, there really isn't. I was in the same situation with the same guy, and turns out he's dyslexic. Yes, it'd help to use better English in posts but you seem to come across as worse by acting downright arrogant and rude.

I'm dislecsick
(Can't spell)
You will smash any flyer but would be shot up by aa guns

You're a astrailan so you speek a variation on english

I'd say it's way undercosted when compared to recent aircrafts
And it's more or less in line with undercosted aircraft (Vendettas / Crons)

I'd just wish GW would FAQ the above-mentionned aircrafts with a price that is more in the 180-200 price mark ... And yes, I do play Imperial Guard, so i'm not whining here

wargey wrote:
I'm dislecsick
(Can't spell)
You will smash any flyer but would be shot up by aa guns

You're a astrailan so you speek a variation on english

I suffer from Dyslexia as well. I just work harder at it.

wargey wrote:
Stom raven interceptor
Have the same stats as you impose
Wepons mangna melta or multi melta
Assult cannon and missile pods

Can take targeting sensors +20
Allow you to hit ground targets at bs
If you take these you can have incedery calesstan missiels sm codex and under slung mangna melta


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Stom raven interceptor
Have the same stats as you impose
Wepons mangna melta or multi melta
Assult cannon and missile pods

Can take targeting sensors +20
Allow you to hit ground targets at bs
If you take these you can have incedery calesstan missiels sm codex + 60 and under slung mangna melta +40

Given a storm raven's size, it'd make for a rather terrible interceptor. Interceptors and fighters are significantly smaller or at least more gracile in build than Bombers, ground attack planes, and troop transport craft. Rather, something in between the Storm talon (a gunship in the modern sense of the word), and the Storm raven in size would probably be the ideal design with minimal wasted space.

Mabey a nephilin jetfighter body

A stormraven is closer to a helicopter.

A "Dogfighter" or "interceptor" should be closer to the size of a stormtalon, with longer wings.

Yes as I said a neplim jetfighter

wargey wrote:
Yes as I said a neplim jetfighter

I meant a good model.

Oh
With the interceptor maby have diffeent option for each chapter

I guess I'm just sort of puzzled about some of the choices on this thing. If its a dogfighter, shouldn't the rear armour be as strong as the rest of it? Also, where's the high fire rate weapon? A dogfighting flyer should have at least two autocannons or that mega bolter from the DA flyer.

Also, the missile systems are too powerful, and I don't understand the point of having two different types of missiles with the exact same stats. And a 72" range is excessive for a dogfighter, because given how fast flyers can move, they should never need that kind of range.

So really, what you need is a slightly more heavily armoured and armed Stormtalon (which is a fine interceptor in and of itself). Give it AV12 all around, a nose mounted Mega Bolter wing mounted twin linked autocannon, and maybe some bloodstrike missiles (2 max). Make is small, with only 2 hull points.

Another thought is to drop to AV11 but give it some kind of field or ablative armour that increases it to AV12 but is lost after the first penetrating hit, like the Necron quantum field.

For this.... 230pts at least, look at the nephilim, this is also 180pts, it is also labeled as a superiority fighter, your one is significantly better and has more armour, better guns and a special rule to kill other flyers.

Otherwise it's ok

 Formosa wrote:
For this.... 230pts at least, look at the nephilim, this is also 180pts, it is also labeled as a superiority fighter, your one is significantly better and has more armour, better guns and a special rule to kill other flyers.

Otherwise it's ok

The Nephilim is also about 15 to 20 points overcosted and completely fails at its air-superiority role. I'm not dismissing your cost assessment, however, balancing other fliers around the Nephilim isn't necessarily the best idea (Although I often see people take the other direction and balance around the Vendetta which is equally flawed. All fliers should be balanced around the mid-range, which are really the Doom Scythe, Storm Talon, Dakkajet, and Storm Raven).

I agree with all that appart from the doom scythe...but thats another thread haha, from how I have used the nephilim I think it is fairly costed, but not as a fighter, it's best used to attack things like rhinos, raiders and other light tanks/skimmers, which is bloody idiotic as a superiority fighter as you said, but I do get the feeling that as more flyers come out for 6th, we will see nerf hammers all over the place and the nephilim will start to make sense

Remember that this can't hit ground units on normal BS. It's pricing is such that it efficiently counters necrons flyer spam while being a points drain against space wolves.

It is truly built to be in an all-comers list - if you're building a list to take someone on specifically, this model isn't for you.

I can drop the hp to 2, but I wanted to make sure it couldn't get ripped to shreds by interceptor auto cannons. That in mind, side armour and rear armour could be dropped to ten and then it could get a bonus when it evades.

Also, effective dogfighting is done with missiles, not guns. 40k allows us to have unlimited salvos of missiles, but look at Vietnam or later era fighter planes - they usually don't have a gun on them, eschewing it for missiles.

 Scipio Africanus wrote:
Also, effective dogfighting is done with missiles, not guns. 40k allows us to have unlimited salvos of missiles, but look at Vietnam or later era fighter planes - they usually don't have a gun on them, eschewing it for missiles.

It's funny you mention that when the US tried the all-missile approach in Vietnam, found that it didn't work very well, and quickly bolted gun pods onto their fighters until they could make a proper revision with an internal gun. And since then every fighter has had a gun just in case.


Anyway, as for the rules, it's way too swingy. Sometimes it sits around being useless (when there are no flyers), sometimes it is incredibly overpowered (when there are flyers), and there's no middle ground. You've gone for the extreme end of min/maxing your design, stacking up the drawbacks when it's already weak to "balance" an advantage which is pretty much a "no flyers allowed" rule. And that's terrible design, since it's either not fun because it's just being useless, or not fun because it's destroying everything with wings in a one-sided massacre.

To fix it you need to remove the reserve rules entirely. Automatically getting the first (and probably only) shot is way too powerful to exist, and the re-roll ability is way too powerful when the "drawback" is so rarely going to be relevant.

It might be that GW are tuning the fliers down to the Nephilim level rather than tuning them up to the Vendetta level. Just a thought.

 Scipio Africanus wrote:

Mahtamori wrote:
As for the topic at hand, it does not seem overpowered at 180 points when compared to other aircrafts. Then again, the immunity aircrafts at AV12 enjoy is borderline despicable and people who defend current aircrafts and lament over Clown Cars from 4th edition should hang themselves in shame.
I would suggest more options be added to expand or tweak the arsenal and more importantly to have the ongoing reserve to be a one-time-only effect that is decided during deployment. Preferably targeting a specific flyer. Maybe he can only make snap shots until that flyer is down - and more importantly allow him to shoot at a flyer that goes Swooping or Hovering.
Also, maybe let the re-usable missile pod be a bit weaker than the one-shot arsenal? It makes no sense for it to have one-shot missiles that are exactly the same as the ones that apparently have no relevant ammunitions limit. Maybe replace that missile pod with two las cannons and then allow for autocannons as an option?

I am happy that you did NOT give it Agile and/or Vector Dancer - few imperial crafts should have those and none of them should be Space Marine.

I responded to the english already. He is british, he can't use 'ESL' as an excuse.

Do you mean twin-linked lascannons? or simply two lascannons? I don't see how exchanging autocannons as an option is necessary then.

If you mean a TL Lascannon for a Hydra autocannon, sounds cool.

I know you did, but I also responded to his signature where he makes a disclaimer regarding his poor spelling.

Regardless, I meant Assault Cannon. I get those two confused all the time. Essentially something that's a bit better at dealing with flying monstrous creatures and light fighters.

For 180 points, it should be made as effective as a Nephilim fighter.

1. Make the missiles a joke S6 AP4.
2. Arm the interceptor with 3 TL heavy bolters... again make it a joke as it can't penetrate anything but AV 10 flyers.
3. Throw them a bone and give the Unrelenting Hunter rule so that any penetrating hit can change a Weapon Destroyed to an Immobilized result.
Give it a TL AC or TL LC so it can actually use its special ability.
4. Reduce this heavy fighter to AV11 as no heavy tank of a flyer could be an interceptor.

Of course this is sarcasm but with the idiocy of the Nephilim "air superiority" fighter, I consider this a slap in the face.