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So I was in my local game store last weekend and i was Proposing an idea with Grey knights. the idea was that I would put a Grey knight librarian with a teleport homer in a storm raven and deep strike Accurately into the enemy lines on turn 3. Of course this would be aided by psychic communion. Its also worth noting that the teleport homer requires you to be on the table at the beginning of the turn. But the manager of the store told me doing this wouldn't work because to use the teleport homer wouldn't be on the table because he is embarked in the vehicle. So I said what if i disembark him? Then he said you would not have been on the table at the start of the turn and you will have to wait till turn 4. So my question here is Does being embarked in a vehicle count as not being on the table? And if it does count as being on the table how could i prove to the manager that this is correct because he is a rather stubborn man.

Tell him that open topped vehicles can have the guys inside all fire and also when a vehicle explodes they must unload and if there is a psyker inside he can cast blessings onto his unit whereas units in reserves cannot for example an iron arm doomthat decides to pod down cannot iron arm before he arrives but a liblibrarian can cast prescience and still be in a vehicle and if all else fails ask him to prove to you that the units embarked are not on the table

The Teliport homer's distance would be measured from the hull. Never trust a store manager, they are trained to sell stuff not be an expert on the rules.

He is correct that you do have to have been on the table start of the turn. The earliest you could use a Teliport homer from a model that is itself deep striking is turn 3.


For Teliport Homers to work properly they really should start the game deployed. Anything else is just wasted points.

Well for a start, I wouldn't bother arguing with the store manager, because he's largely right in this situation.
What you want to do is impossible.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems to me what you want to do is to use the teleport homer to deep strike the Storm Raven, while the homer is inside the SR that is deep striking.

Simpiy put, you can't.

The model with the Teleport Homer needs to be on the table at the start of the turn.

If the Teleport Homer is in the possesion of the LIbrarian in reserve inside the Storm Raven, it's not on the table.

The only error the Store Manager made, is that you could use the homer from inside a vehicle, you simply measure from the hull to determine range.
He's still right on the rest of it though.

No Marv, that's not his idea.
His plan is to put a teleport homer in a vehicle, race that flyer to the opponent and than deepstrike your entire army next to his in the following turn.

And that's perfectly fine.
The problem is that you'll have to be lucky with rolls and the flyer has to survive.

 TheJudge137 wrote:
So I was in my local game store last weekend and i was Proposing an idea with Grey knights. the idea was that I would put a Grey knight librarian with a teleport homer in a storm raven and deep strike Accurately into the enemy lines on turn 3. Of course this would be aided by psychic communion. Its also worth noting that the teleport homer requires you to be on the table at the beginning of the turn. But the manager of the store told me doing this wouldn't work because to use the teleport homer wouldn't be on the table because he is embarked in the vehicle. So I said what if i disembark him? Then he said you would not have been on the table at the start of the turn and you will have to wait till turn 4. So my question here is Does being embarked in a vehicle count as not being on the table? And if it does count as being on the table how could i prove to the manager that this is correct because he is a rather stubborn man.

Kangodo wrote:
No Marv, that's not his idea.
His plan is to put a teleport homer in a vehicle, race that flyer to the opponent and than deepstrike your entire army next to his in the following turn. And that's perfectly fine.

Nope, Marv has it correct, the OPs plan was to deep strike the librarian and then in the same turn use the teleport homer, the store manager was stating that the teleport homer could not be used until the following turn as it was not on the table at the start of the turn. which is correct.

There are a number of ways to make this work, but not the way the OP tried to.

1) Mordrak with an attached Librarian with Homer could arrive via Deep Strike on turn 1 via “First to the Fray”, followed by a turn 2 arrival by Deep Strike of the Stormraven and the rest of the army (via Mordrak's Psychic Communion).

2) A Libby or Purgation Squad with Homer is already on the table when the Stormraven and the rest of the army arriving via Deep Strike on or after turn 2.

3) Mordrak embarked on the Stormraven with Homer arrives on turn 1 via Deep Strike per "First to the Fray", with the rest following on turn 2

4) Sky Shield, unfurled.

SJ

 jeffersonian000 wrote:
3) Mordrak embarked on the Stormraven with Homer arrives on turn 1 via Deep Strike per "First to the Fray", with the rest following on turn 2

Mordrak can only use first into the fray on his unit. The Stormraven is not joined to him so it would not benefit.

The fact they said turn ***3*** was what you need to look at. SR comes in (hopefully) turn 2, then turn 3 you get rest of reserves

 DeathReaper wrote:

 jeffersonian000 wrote:
3) Mordrak embarked on the Stormraven with Homer arrives on turn 1 via Deep Strike per "First to the Fray", with the rest following on turn 2

Mordrak can only use first into the fray on his unit. The Stormraven is not joined to him so it would not benefit.

Try reading "First to the Fray" again. Nowhere in the special rule does it state that Mordrak is limited to just his Ghosts and any attacked ICs. Yet, it does state Mordrak and any unit he accompanies. Some people get hung up on the word "unit" being singular, forgetting basic English that allows the words "any", "unit" and "accompanies" to mean "as many as or as few as the units traveling together". As written, "First to the Fray" simply changes Morakrak reserve roll from "on turn 2, roll" to "on turn 1, arrive without scatter". Per the Deep Strike rules, all units grouped together in reserves via attachments and embarking share a single reserve roll to enter play. "First to the Fray" allows that single reserve roll to go from "on turn 2, roll" to "on turn 1, arrive without scatter". No other restrictions are evident.

SJ

Are we really going into whether "any unit he accompanies" means joined or dictionary-defined with (which would mean the entire army)?

 jeffersonian000 wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:

 jeffersonian000 wrote:
3) Mordrak embarked on the Stormraven with Homer arrives on turn 1 via Deep Strike per "First to the Fray", with the rest following on turn 2

Mordrak can only use first into the fray on his unit. The Stormraven is not joined to him so it would not benefit.

Try reading "First to the Fray" again. Nowhere in the special rule does it state that Mordrak is limited to just his Ghosts and any attacked ICs. Yet, it does state Mordrak and any unit he accompanies. Some people get hung up on the word "unit" being singular, forgetting basic English that allows the words "any", "unit" and "accompanies" to mean "as many as or as few as the units traveling together". As written, "First to the Fray" simply changes Morakrak reserve roll from "on turn 2, roll" to "on turn 1, arrive without scatter". Per the Deep Strike rules, all units grouped together in reserves via attachments and embarking share a single reserve roll to enter play. "First to the Fray" allows that single reserve roll to go from "on turn 2, roll" to "on turn 1, arrive without scatter". No other restrictions are evident.

So you're going to completely ignore the thread that proved you wrong last time?

 jeffersonian000 wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:

 jeffersonian000 wrote:
3) Mordrak embarked on the Stormraven with Homer arrives on turn 1 via Deep Strike per "First to the Fray", with the rest following on turn 2

Mordrak can only use first into the fray on his unit. The Stormraven is not joined to him so it would not benefit.

Try reading "First to the Fray" again. Nowhere in the special rule does it state that Mordrak is limited to just his Ghosts and any attacked ICs. Yet, it does state Mordrak and any unit he accompanies. Some people get hung up on the word "unit" being singular, forgetting basic English that allows the words "any", "unit" and "accompanies" to mean "as many as or as few as the units traveling together". As written, "First to the Fray" simply changes Morakrak reserve roll from "on turn 2, roll" to "on turn 1, arrive without scatter". Per the Deep Strike rules, all units grouped together in reserves via attachments and embarking share a single reserve roll to enter play. "First to the Fray" allows that single reserve roll to go from "on turn 2, roll" to "on turn 1, arrive without scatter". No other restrictions are evident.

SJ

"it does state Mordrak and any unit he accompanies"

That refers to the unit he is joined to.

Any unit he "accompanies", in the context of the character rules, most likely means "joined to". There is no other rule giving a mechanical function similar to "accompanies", and thus any other interpretation would necessitate creating a rule.

First off, that thread did not prove me wrong. The same "evidence" against it that's been posted above still falls under opinion, as Mordrak's special rule does not specify a limitation of just his squad. Yes, it does include any unit Mordrak has joined, which does include embarking a transport per the rules for transports as well as the rules for reserves. "First to the Fray" changes when and how the reserves roll occurs for Mordrak and units he is legally grouped with to arrive via Deep Strike.

If we are speaking of a 5man squad of GKT with an attached IC in a Stormraven that has a Dreadnought grappled to the back arriving on turn 2 via Deep Stike using a Psychic Communion modified reserve roll, no one would complain. Yet "First to the Fray" functions in the same manner as Psychic Communion; both special rules change when a Deep Stiking unit arrives from reserves. The only real difference between the two is "First to the Fray" requires Mordrak to be with the Deep Striking unit rather than on the table, with no psychic power check required. The other advantages provided by "First to the Fray" over Psychic Communion are fully paid for by Mordrak's 200pt/non-IC tax.

To restate, when a transport and its embarked unit(s) are placed in reserve, a single reserve roll is required for all of those units to arrive together from reserve. This is indisputable. The reserve roll can be modified by any of several special rules in the game. This is indisputable. Mordrak's "First to the Fray" is a modifier to the reserve roll for a Deep Striking unit. Per the rules covering transports, reserve, and how special rules interact in the game, Mordrak embarked on a Stormraven in reserves designated for Deep Strike can legally use "First to the Fray" to arrive on turn 1 without scatter, because "First to the Fray" says he can.

SJ

 jeffersonian000 wrote:
First off, that thread did not prove me wrong. The same "evidence" against it that's been posted above still falls under opinion, as Mordrak's special rule does not specify a limitation of just his squad. Yes, it does include any unit Mordrak has joined, which does include embarking a transport per the rules for transports as well as the rules for reserves. "First to the Fray" changes when and how the reserves roll occurs for Mordrak and units he is legally grouped with to arrive via Deep Strike.

It isn't opinion, not matter how many times you pretend it is.

If we are speaking of a 5man squad of GKT with an attached IC in a Stormraven that has a Dreadnought grappled to the back arriving on turn 2 via Deep Stike using a Psychic Communion modified reserve roll, no one would complain. Yet "First to the Fray" functions in the same manner as Psychic Communion; both special rules change when a Deep Stiking unit arrives from reserves. The only real difference between the two is "First to the Fray" requires Mordrak to be with the Deep Striking unit rather than on the table, with no psychic power check required. The other advantages provided by "First to the Fray" over Psychic Communion are fully paid for by Mordrak's 200pt/non-IC tax.

They are not comparable. At all.

To restate, when a transport and its embarked unit(s) are placed in reserve, a single reserve roll is required for all of those units to arrive together from reserve. This is indisputable. The reserve roll can be modified by any of several special rules in the game. This is indisputable. Mordrak's "First to the Fray" is a modifier to the reserve roll for a Deep Striking unit. Per the rules covering transports, reserve, and how special rules interact in the game, Mordrak embarked on a Stormraven in reserves designated for Deep Strike can legally use "First to the Fray" to arrive on turn 1 without scatter, because "First to the Fray" says he can.

No, you're misreading FttF. Again.

"Yes, it does include any unit Mordrak has joined, which does include embarking a transport per the rules for transports as well as the rules for reserves. "

Really? "Joined" is defined in the IC rules, where it specifies an IC can never join a vehicle (or vehicle squadron) - meaning you are yet again wrong

No matter how many times you pretend otherwise, the previous thread proved you wrong, factually. Your opinion on the matter says otherwise, however it remains only that - opinion, not fact

It’s a good thing Mordrak is neither required to join nor be attached, just simply accompanied.

The rules for embarking already cover this, as do the mentioned IC rules. To ignore the fact that "First to the Fray” only effects the reserve rules by trying to argue what "accompany" means is to ignore that "accompany" is already covered in the rules under every section dealing with more than one unit being treated as a single entity during the game. Grouping units together in reserve via IC attachments and embarking are equally legal as long as rules as written are followed. "First to the Fray" does not change this, nor does it specify only Mordrak's squad, or Mordrak's squad as well as any attached ICs. "First to the Fray" covers any unit that Mordrak may find himself grouped with while in reserve, which does include transports, and in the case of a Stormraven it may also include the Dreadnought grappled to its rear.

By comparing two rules that modify the reserves sequence, "Psychic Communion" and "First to the Fray", I was illustrating that the two rules are doing functionally the same thing: modifying when a group of units in reserve will arrive. Psychic Communion does this by directly modifying the reserves roll for the group. First to the Fray does this by bypassing the roll altogether for the group. The group of units in reserve remains the same in either case. This is indisputable.

SJ

Every person with whom you've discussed this on this forum (to my recollection) disputes it, as does every tournament organizer I ever expect to meet.

I don't think your interpretation accurately represents GW's intent or the preponderance of the evidence present in the rules.

 jeffersonian000 wrote:
It’s a good thing Mordrak is neither required to join nor be attached, just simply accompanied.

Pleas define "accompanied" using any source you wish. Not paraphrased, define.

By comparing two rules that modify the reserves sequence, "Psychic Communion" and "First to the Fray", I was illustrating that the two rules are doing functionally the same thing: modifying when a group of units in reserve will arrive. Psychic Communion does this by directly modifying the reserves roll for the group. First to the Fray does this by bypassing the roll altogether for the group. The group of units in reserve remains the same in either case. This is indisputable.

FttF does more than modify the resolve roll, and it is very specific as to what units it affects.

Sorry my plan might not have been clearly expressed. My plan was to put a librarian with a homer in a stormraven then have the raven come in on turn 2 and turbo boost to the opponents end of the table. This is done while using 2 psychic communions to keep everything else out. then on turn 3 have everything come in on my opponents end of the table.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Of course the main reason for this post was to ask if I could use the homer out of a vehicle which has been answered. thanks for the quick response guys it was very helpful

Why do you want to teleport Homer?

rigeld2 wrote:

 jeffersonian000 wrote:
It’s a good thing Mordrak is neither required to join nor be attached, just simply accompanied.

Pleas define "accompanied" using any source you wish. Not paraphrased, define.

By comparing two rules that modify the reserves sequence, "Psychic Communion" and "First to the Fray", I was illustrating that the two rules are doing functionally the same thing: modifying when a group of units in reserve will arrive. Psychic Communion does this by directly modifying the reserves roll for the group. First to the Fray does this by bypassing the roll altogether for the group. The group of units in reserve remains the same in either case. This is indisputable.

FttF does more than modify the resolve roll, and it is very specific as to what units it affects.

Perhaps, if you decide to ignore page 36 of the BRB, under Deep Strike (which I’ve cited previously), first sentence of the second to last paragraph in the first column:

"In the Movements phase during which they arrive, deep striking units may not move any further, other than to disembark from a deep striking Transport vehicle if they are in one."

That one sentence tells us that passengers aboard a deep striking Transport count as deep striking. You may also note that it lumps the passengers into a single unit with the deep striking Transport, and overrides the previous statement that all remaining models in the deep striking unit are to be placed around the initial model in concentric circles.

On page 124 of the BRB, under Reserves (which I’ve cited previously), second sentence of the last paragraph in the first column:

"Similarly, the player must specify if any units in reserve are embarked upon any Transport vehicles in reserve, in which case they will arrive together."

This sentence tells us that when a unit is embarked upon a Transport, the unit and the Transport are treated as arriving together. Per the common usage of the word accompany, when someone or something moves with, stays with, and/or travels with another, they are accompanying each other. First to the Fray tells us that Mordrak and any unit he accompanies will automatically arrive on a specific turn when deep striking. As "together" does in fact equal "accompany", yet "accompany" does not equal "attached", we are directed by RAW to assume that not only attached units may accompany Mordrak. We are, however, directly told that any unit Mordrak is grouped with in reserves will arrive together per RAW.

On page 124 of the BRB, under Reserves (which I’ve cited previously), first sentence of the third paragraph in the second column:

"Some special rules can modify the roll required for a unit to arrive from reserve."

First to the Fray is a special rule that modifies the roll for a specific unit to arrive from reserve.

Following this logic chain, we place Mordrak in Deep Striking reserves (page 124, BRB) embarked on a Deep Striking Transport, Mordrak and the Transport will arrive together from reserves per RAW. In addition, due to Mordrak’s special rule which modifies the reserve roll for his arrival, Mordrak and the Transport will arrive on turn 1 without scatter, per RAW. The Stormraven is the only Transport in the GK arsenal that has the Deep Strike special rule. Per RAW, the unit(s) inside a deep striking Transport does not require the Deep Strike special rule, as the Deep Striking Transport conveys the Deep Strike special rule to its passengers (page 36, BRB). And because the Stormraven Mordrak is embarked upon also has the unique ability to carry an additional passenger that is not attached to Mordrak, namely a rear grapple Dreadnought, said Dreadnought will also arrive together with Mordrak and the Stormraven, per RAW.

Essentially, if this was a IC attached to a unit of GKT in a SR with a Dread in Deep Striking reserve, no one has any issues with this collective “unit” arriving together on a single reserve roll modified by Psychic Communion, because RAW supports this combo. Per RAW, if that IC is instead Mordrak and those GKT are his Ghost Knights, then all criteria for First to the Fray will be met allowing a first turn arrival without scatter. Remember, GW tells us these rules work, and gives us a loose set of guidelines for figuring out how to get these rules to work. That is permission within a permissive rule set. As has stated before, no new rules were created, no rules were twisted. The combo is legal per RAW.

SJ

AGain: every, single person has disagreed with, and refuted you. You are yet again making large leaps in logic with no support.

As a trivial example:

""In the Movements phase during which they arrive, deep striking units may not move any further, other than to disembark from a deep striking Transport vehicle if they are in one."

That one sentence tells us that passengers aboard a deep striking Transport count as deep striking. You may also note that it lumps the passengers into a single unit with the deep striking Transport, and overrides the previous statement that all remaining models in the deep striking unit are to be placed around the initial model in concentric circles."

No, it does NOT lump them as "One unit" with the deepstriking transport. You are making an entirely invalid claim there. A unit cannot entirely embark itself, you are never the same unit as the transport vehicle you are on, and the sentence does NOT state, imply or even *hint* at that. It states the deepstriking UNITS may not move further (showing that more than one unit has deepstruck, potentially) apart from to disembark from the transport vehicle they are IN, not *part of* as you are attempting to claim

Keep going with this, however no single person I know will ever accept your argument, as it goes against every single rule you have tried to use, and relies upon misinterpreting "accompany" in your own special way, avoiding the actual usage in the rulebook.

FttF is not a modifier. A modifier has a set definition in the rulebook, I suggest you look it up.

 jeffersonian000 wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:

 jeffersonian000 wrote:
It’s a good thing Mordrak is neither required to join nor be attached, just simply accompanied.

Pleas define "accompanied" using any source you wish. Not paraphrased, define.

This sentence tells us that when a unit is embarked upon a Transport, the unit and the Transport are treated as arriving together. Per the common usage of the word accompany, when someone or something moves with, stays with, and/or travels with another, they are accompanying each other. First to the Fray tells us that Mordrak and any unit he accompanies will automatically arrive on a specific turn when deep striking. As "together" does in fact equal "accompany", yet "accompany" does not equal "attached", we are directed by RAW to assume that not only attached units may accompany Mordrak. We are, however, directly told that any unit Mordrak is grouped with in reserves will arrive together per RAW.

So we're going with the common usage of the word then?
Does the common usage include "joined" as part of the definition? I noticed you've been careful not to use that word. Is there a reason?
Accompany does mean joined which has a specific meaning in 40k. You can ignore that all you want, but that doesn't make you right no matter how many words you type trying to prove otherwise.

Essentially, if this was a IC attached to a unit of GKT in a SR with a Dread in Deep Striking reserve, no one has any issues with this collective “unit” arriving together on a single reserve roll modified by Psychic Communion, because RAW supports this combo.

They are not comparable situations no matter how much you want to pretend they are.

Per RAW, if that IC is instead Mordrak and those GKT are his Ghost Knights, then all criteria for First to the Fray will be met allowing a first turn arrival without scatter.

This is false.

BRB, page 2, Multiple Modifiers:

"... first apply any multipliers, then apply any additions or subtractions, and finally apply any set values."

Psychic Communion is a modifier per page 2. First to the Fray bypasses the roll entirely per page 124, as previously stated.

As to passengers and transports not being treated as a single unit while embarked, then you would have to roll separately for both the vehicle and the passengers for reserves (per page 124 you roll once for both), passengers could never be effected by vehicle damage (per page 80, passengers can be effected by vehicle damage), nor could vehicles pass on special rules to their passengers (per page 78, Unshakable Nerves states otherwise, as does page 36, first sentence of the 2nd to last paragraph in the first column).

Just because you don't think this is true, does not mean the rules do not support it to be true. 6th edition does not allow for its rules to be taken in a vacuum, as the rules are too loosely written. Yet, when taken as a whole, you will find that most situations are covered over several different sections of the rulebook.

Example: Nowhere in the movement section does it state you may not move a model through another model. Yet in several other sections it reminds us that models are not allowed to move through each other except for special rules that give permission to do so, such as Jump Infantry or Embarking. In a vacuum, taking just the movement rules in question, one could prove that models can and do move through each other as long as they stop no closer than 1" from an enemy. The rest of the rulebook disagrees.

In the case of First to the Fray, we have a special rule that bypasses a step in deploying from reserves. There are other rules that do the same thing, which no one seems to have issues with, yet in the case of First to the Fray people do. The 6th edition 40k rulebook does support the use of First to the Fray as I have outlined, because I have indeed taken into account the relevant rules for each step involved in deploying a unit from reserves via Deep Strike.

And to put a finer point on the argument, I have cited the relevant rules to support my position. Nosferatu1001 has not cited any rules to support his position, nor did any of my detractors from the other thread. They have stated a number of opinions, as well as anecdotal evidence. If you wish to win this argument, please follow the steps of deployment from reserves as written, and apply each rule involved. The logic chain I’ve stated is backed by the rules as written.

SJ

 jeffersonian000 wrote:
As to passengers and transports not being treated as a single unit while embarked, then you would have to roll separately for both the vehicle and the passengers for reserves (per page 124 you roll once for both),

Wrong. The reason why you roll only once is because page 124 specifies it. If they were treated as single unit, that portion of page 124 would be unnecessary.

 jeffersonian000 wrote:
passengers could never be effected by vehicle damage (per page 80, passengers can be effected by vehicle damage)

Wrong. If passengers and vehicles were treated as a single unit, embarked passengers would be destroyed when vehicle was. Instead, rules specify exactly how passengers, as a separate unit, are affected.
Also, if passengers and vehicles were treated as single unit, passengers would be forced to shoot at same target as the vehicle did, which is not true.

 jeffersonian000 wrote:
, nor could vehicles pass on special rules to their passengers (per page 78, Unshakable Nerves states otherwise, as does page 36, first sentence of the 2nd to last paragraph in the first column).

Wrong. Units can pass certain special rules to other units. This is nothing special
This argument is just plain silly, the logical conclusion of this argument of yours is that "Every unit within 6" of Sanguinary Priest is considered to single unit". I mean, they're passing special rules to other units, which you claim is impossible. So they must all be same unit.

I'm pretty sure you must be trolling at this point, as your argument is so full of logical holes.

jeffersonian000 wrote:BRB, page 2, Multiple Modifiers:

"... first apply any multipliers, then apply any additions or subtractions, and finally apply any set values."

Psychic Communion is a modifier per page 2. First to the Fray bypasses the roll entirely per page 124, as previously stated.

Wrong, you stated it was a modifier. It is not a modifier, as I pointed out to you.

jeffersonian000 wrote:As to passengers and transports not being treated as a single unit while embarked, then you would have to roll separately for both the vehicle and the passengers for reserves (per page 124 you roll once for both), passengers could never be effected by vehicle damage (per page 80, passengers can be effected by vehicle damage), nor could vehicles pass on special rules to their passengers (per page 78, Unshakable Nerves states otherwise, as does page 36, first sentence of the 2nd to last paragraph in the first column).

1) you roll together because the rules create an exception
2) because the rules stte passengers are affected
3) that is a special rule for a unit embarked in a vehicle, not a vehicle passing the rule on

So you are still going to claim vehicles and embarked units are one unit? THen no unit can EVER embark, as per the embarkation rules EVERY MEMBER of the unit must embark on the vehicle, which in your "contention" (utter misreading of the rules) would mean the vehicle would have to embark upon itself.

Vehicles and units would have to fire on the same target. They dont.

We could continue to count the ways you are wrong, but you just simply are. Your contention is wrong, and given you have based your entire argument off this single faulty premise, it reduces yoru chain of logic to nonsense.

A vehicle and an embarked squad are 2, distinct and separate units. This is a truism.

jeffersonian000 wrote:Just because you don't think this is true, does not mean the rules do not support it to be true. 6th edition does not allow for its rules to be taken in a vacuum, as the rules are too loosely written. Yet, when taken as a whole, you will find that most situations are covered over several different sections of the rulebook.

I dont think it is true because it isnt true.

jeffersonian000 wrote:In the case of First to the Fray, we have a special rule that bypasses a step in deploying from reserves. There are other rules that do the same thing, which no one seems to have issues with, yet in the case of First to the Fray people do. The 6th edition 40k rulebook does support the use of First to the Fray as I have outlined, because I have indeed taken into account the relevant rules for each step involved in deploying a unit from reserves via Deep Strike.

Apart from statinng that you have one unit and not 2, yes, you have supproted some of it with rules. You have also ignored the phrase "joined", which DOES appear in common language and you studiously avoid as that IS defined in 40k, and as Rigeld keeps pointing out entrely undermines your point.

jeffersonian000 wrote:And to put a finer point on the argument, I have cited the relevant rules to support my position. Nosferatu1001 has not cited any rules to support his position, nor did any of my detractors from the other thread. They have stated a number of opinions, as well as anecdotal evidence. If you wish to win this argument, please follow the steps of deployment from reserves as written, and apply each rule involved. The logic chain I’ve stated is backed by the rules as written.

SJ

No, you have mistated rules, ignored definitions in favour of your own made up version, and ignored the rules citations. Your initial premise is wrong, your use of "accompany" is wrong, and your conclusions that result are wrong. We HAVE supported with rules, we HAVE pointed you to them so to LIE and say otherwise breaches the tenets oft his forum. Retract and apologise to those you have wronged - Rigeld, Man et al.

rigeld2 wrote:

 jeffersonian000 wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:

 jeffersonian000 wrote:
It’s a good thing Mordrak is neither required to join nor be attached, just simply accompanied.

Pleas define "accompanied" using any source you wish. Not paraphrased, define.

This sentence tells us that when a unit is embarked upon a Transport, the unit and the Transport are treated as arriving together. Per the common usage of the word accompany, when someone or something moves with, stays with, and/or travels with another, they are accompanying each other. First to the Fray tells us that Mordrak and any unit he accompanies will automatically arrive on a specific turn when deep striking. As "together" does in fact equal "accompany", yet "accompany" does not equal "attached", we are directed by RAW to assume that not only attached units may accompany Mordrak. We are, however, directly told that any unit Mordrak is grouped with in reserves will arrive together per RAW.

So we're going with the common usage of the word then?
Does the common usage include "joined" as part of the definition? I noticed you've been careful not to use that word. Is there a reason?
Accompany does mean joined which has a specific meaning in 40k. You can ignore that all you want, but that doesn't make you right no matter how many words you type trying to prove otherwise.

Keep ignoring this fact and you'll continue to be wrong. You've utterly failed to cite any rule or definition that supports this part of your argument, and failing to do so means that your argument utterly falls apart.

rigeld2 wrote:
Keep ignoring this fact and you'll continue to be wrong. You've utterly failed to cite any rule or definition that supports this part of your argument, and failing to do so means that your argument utterly falls apart.

Ignore what fact? I’ve failed to cite which rules or definitions?

I have posted the page numbers and specific references for all relevant rules that support my argument, as well as examples. I have followed all tenets of this forum in stating my position. Neither you nor Nosferatu have done likewise.

SJ