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Evening Dakka,

It's been a while since I've written a new list, so I thought I'd take some time to write something up and see what came out. I've not gamed with Chaos before, I'm in the process of (very slowly, as usual) painting up my Iron Warriors.

I'm reading Angel Exterminatus currently and have really been inspired by the IW characters that I've found in this book. My Lord is based on Warsmith Kroeger, I love his "feth you all, get me to combat" attitude. It's not what I expected from this legion at all. Originally I was looking for a purely long ranged force, though that's seemingly quite hard to achieve with the Chaos Codex... I've gone through a few iterations, even utilising Noise Marines and Lucius as Iron Warriors that have simply developed weapons that use the sonic guns made famous by the Emperors Children. Scrapped that idea though as it was too points heavy.

I was hoping to build a 500 point list, though quickly found myself having blown that points budget so extended it up to 1000 points. Here's what I have, written with a view to wipe the floor of my brother in laws Tau (all Fire Warriors and Crisis Suits with plasma guns and missile pods).

I've come undone previously by his ability to JSJ, so my idea is to invest in 2 squads of terminators, deep strike in, flame his FW's to remove the largest number of shots he can put out, then just chase down his Crisis Suits as we go along, with the combi meltas insta-killing Crisis Suits with each shot. The Terminators starting out behind his lines will hopefully provide enough of a destraction to allow the rest of my force to move up (albeit slowly) mostly unhindered.

HQ

Lord
- Terminator Armour
- Burning Brand of Skalathrax
- Chainfist
- Gift of Mutation
- Mark of Khorne

Elites

Terminators x 5
- 2x Combi Flamers
- 1x Heavy Flamer
- 4x Power Axe
- (Champion) Power Axe & Combi Bolter + Gift of Mutation
- Mark of Khorne

Terminators x 5
- 3x Combi meltas
- 4x Power Axe
- (Champion) Power Axe & Combi Bolter
- Mark of Khorne

Troops

10x Chaos Marines
- Plasma gun

10x Chaos Marines
- Plasma gun

Heavy Support

5x Havocs
- 4x Auto Cannons

Total: 996 points

I'm considering dropping the Havocs, as I can't see them being useful enough for the points cost, though their range and strength will come in handy should anything go wrong with my deep strike. They will however be shooting from out in the open as I haven't investedin fortifications. What do you think?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Considering giving the Terminators and Lord the MoT to up their inv. save, to help protect against plasma weaponry better...

Havocs have worked well for me in the past. 115 points for 8 str 7 shots each turn is nice.

As I've said in a couple other threads, I'm not a fan of initiative 1, Instead of the chainfist on your lord, give him a lightning claw (or the axe of blind fury if you can spare the 10 points from somewhere else... That gift is an option)

On the note of Initiative 1, ALL of your termies have axes? are you willing to bet on getting to strike after your opponent is done with you? yes they're terminators... but they're not invincible.

If you're taking 10 man squads of marines, take 2 plasmaguns, otherwise drop a few guys out and take a rhino.

My lord originally started out with a lightning claw, then I figured I should probably have a little chance at tanks in case he brings any. Still, I guess I can react to that at the time somehow...

On axes, I'd not really thought of it I guess, just wanted higher strength attacks available at no extra cost. Which of the free power weapons / combinations thereof do you reckon is best?

I tried for dual plasmas though couldn't fit the extra ones in the list, and considered a rhino though thought it a waste of points that'd get blown up in the early game and generally be a waste of points. Is it really worth a look in? AV10 vs Tau goes syraight to tge bargain bin in my head! Would appreciate your thoughts on this.

Also, over 70 views and just 1 comment? Either this is a blindingly good list that can hardly be improved, or its so gak that people aren't saying so for fear of hurting feelings ao which is it dakka?

If you were taking the poweraxes for the str... take power swords (or lightning claws for 3 pts/model) and an icon of wrath. Furious charge gives you the same +1 Str and you get to keep your initiative. And you'll get to re-roll your failed charges. (with lightning claws you're rerolling wounds as well)

If you're looking for higher str attacks though, you're either paying points, or paying initiative. I'd rather pay the points. that way I get my attacks off at the same time as my opponent. What happens if you meet a Chaos Lord with Axe of Blind Fury? He'll shred through your entire terminator group before you have the chance to hit him back.

I think you are right to consider the MoT on the terminators. If you do deep strike and the bro-in-law has a railgun it could make chaos-goo out of the terminators.

Crisis battle suits never come in large teams and so I don't think you need the extra MoK attacks - unless you want the Lord to have the khorne deamon weapon.

I wouldn't worry too much about ini 1 vs Tau.

Evening all!

Here's a revised / second list that I've put together based on what you've said above. I've hada no limits appraochtothis, and it has grown to 1500 points now - I'll explain the changes as we go along...

HQ

Huron Blackheart
- Warlord

Sorceror
- Mk of Tzeentch
- Extra Psyker rank
- Terminator Armour

Elites

7 Terminators
- 7x LC's
- 3x combi flamers
- 3x combi meltas (1 on the Champion)
- 1x heavy flamer
- Mk of Tzeentch

All of the above (including HQ) go in a Land Raider with
- Dirge Caster

Troops

10x Chaos Marines
- 2x Plasma Guns
- Mk of Nurgle
- Rhino with combi bolter

10x Chaos Marines
- 2x Plasma Guns
- Mk of Nurgle
- Rhino with combi bolter

Heavy Support

5x Havocs
- Mk of Nurgle
- 4x Auto Cannons
- ADL

So, the scoop....

Huron Blackheart is a fricking legend. I would like to run my Lord with the Burning Brand (especially now that I'm expecting delivery of Lugft Huron & Lord Zhufor for a kick ass kit bash), but seriously, if I can infiltrate him, the sorceror, and the terminators, in a fricking Land Raider... I'd just love to see my bro in laws face when that happens

The Sorceror was there really because I had points to spare when I started writing this second list up. That and I sure do like sorcery. Fluff wise, I imagine these guys wanting to change the mistakes made in their past (I need to think on this a little more) and the Sorceror is their means of communing with Tzeentch's heralds, so I can justify him that way. It'll add a nice little extra detail in game though I think.

I've given the LR a dirge caster so I can draw right up alongside his FW's, disembark, charge in to combat and remove any hope he has of getting a shot off Yep, I'm that kind of bastard lol

The Marines will burn their way up mid field in their Rhinos, aiming for the bigger guns. They have Mark of Nurgle in case the Rhinos get popped and they have to foot slog. My concern here is S10 guns, so the extra point of T won't help to mitigate the ID risk, though I couldn't see much use for the other marks on them. I think I'm less likely to see rail guns than I am multiple missile pods etc though, so I can justify it here... Fluff wise, I'm thinking that Nurgle has got in on the act with Tzeentch and given these guys the power to shrug off mortal wounds so that they can go forth and right their wrongs. I wonder what's in it for him though...?

The Havocs will sit behind their ADL, benefitting from the additional save it provides, and will pop whatever they can. If they need to relocate at any point, so be it, though I hope to position the ADL in such a position as to give them good LOS across the majority of the battlefield. I have toyed with a SLP for the extra height they'll get (dropping the additional psyker rank to cover the cost), what do you think?

And there we have it. Really enjoyed writing this list, it seems "right" in my head

Any and all critiques welcomed! Cheers!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Bollocks, just realised Termies take up 2 places on a Land Raider... Back to the drawing board...

Land Raiders can only hold 5 Terminators or ten regular models, so Huron and the Sorcerer could travel with a max 4 Terminators (each Terminator counting as two models).

Not too much re-drawing to do. Split the terminators and hope you get to infiltrate 2 units. You still get the landraider +4 termies + Huron to infiltrate and if you are lucky the other termies can drop in behind the landraider. Just make sure the shooty terminators are outside the landraider.

Aye, I'd wondered about dropping one of the Marines and putting Huron in their Rhino with the rest of the PA'd guys and potentially infiltrating these alongside the LR if I were to get an alright roll.

Hadn't considered bringing the second squad in behind the LR if I can get them to infiltrate too, though worse case scenario is that I get them to DS in and shoot the crap out of everything. So I'd infiltrate Termy squad 1 + Sorceror in LR first, Rhino squad + Huron second, and deep strike the remaining Termys in wherever they're best placed to support / destroy as needs be. If I get the full 3 squads to infiltrate then obviously Rhino squad 2 will get the sneaky treatment.

With so many of my guys that far forward, I'm wondering if my Havocs would have anything to shoot at at all lol

I am just going to comment on your terminators:

I think your current config is weak.

Lightning claws cost extra for little benefit over power axe.
Sure it is initiative 4 instead of 1 but you are paying for 4++ save with MoT, use it. Figure 10 attacks with LC, 5 hit and 75% wound so about 4. Same with axes 5 hit and 67% wound... A lot of point for 8% better wounding and you can't affect AC 2.

Comb-flamers... a waste. You are the ultimate HTH unit. Why do you need template weapons to affect the enemy?
I think one heavy flamer should do you just fine. If you went with a reaper then perhaps some combi-flamers otherwise just max the combi-meltas.

No chainfist. So you get tied up against an enemy dreadnought or a landraider survives your volly of melta fire.
You should have 1.

Now no points in front of me, but you should be able to save a boatload on no lightning claws.

7 MoT Terminators
6 Power Axes
1 Chainfist
6 combi-meltas
1 heavy flamer

DAaddict wrote:
I am just going to comment on your terminators:

I think your current config is weak.

Lightning claws cost extra for little benefit over power axe.
Sure it is initiative 4 instead of 1 but you are paying for 4++ save with MoT, use it. Figure 10 attacks with LC, 5 hit and 75% wound so about 4. Same with axes 5 hit and 67% wound... A lot of point for 8% better wounding and you can't affect AC 2.

Comb-flamers... a waste. You are the ultimate HTH unit. Why do you need template weapons to affect the enemy?
I think one heavy flamer should do you just fine. If you went with a reaper then perhaps some combi-flamers otherwise just max the combi-meltas.

No chainfist. So you get tied up against an enemy dreadnought or a landraider survives your volly of melta fire.
You should have 1.

Now no points in front of me, but you should be able to save a boatload on no lightning claws.

7 MoT Terminators
6 Power Axes
1 Chainfist
6 combi-meltas
1 heavy flamer

Hey man,

I wondered about the lc's / axes... I mean, normal Terminators do well enough with pf's in a loyalist force from what I've seen, I can't see axes being a problem - especially given that I'm going up against Tau. Were there to be better combat potential from my opponent then sure, maybe it'd be worth an upgrade but hey, this seems to be mostly a personal choice thing. My opponent is unlikely to field vehicles so the chainfist is an incredibly expensive option for something that would otherwise be unrequired.

I went for combi flamers as I could see them wasting a large amount of firewarriors in very little time, allowing me to move on to other targets.

Anyway, I've made another revision that allows me another termy or 2 -

HQ

Huron
- Warlord

Sorceror
- Termy armour
- Mk of Tzeentch
- plus 1 mastery level

Elites

4x Terminators (Sorceror goes here)
- 3x combi meltas
- 3x power axes + 1 power sword on the champion
- Mk of Tzeentch
- Land Raider with Dirge Caster

5x Terminators (Deep striking squad)
- 3x combi meltas
- Heavy Flamer
- 4x power axes + sword on the champ.
- Mk of Tzeentch

9x Chaos Marines (Huron goes here)
- 1x plasma gun
- Mk of Nurgle
- Rhino

10x Chaos Marines
- 2x plasma guns
- Mk of Nurgle
- Rhino

5x Havocs
- 4x Autocannons
- ADL

This comes to 1492 points, with the remaining 8 points I could

- Give the Havoc or Chaos Marine Champ a combi bolter or chainaxe. If I give him a combi bolter I have 5 points left to play with
- Bang a combi bolter on one of the Rhinos, leaving 3 points to play with (combi bolter as above on one of the champs maybe)
- Melta bombs to the sorceror (not much use, as unlikely to see vehicles)
- Ichor blood to the sorceror (not much use, as termy armour reduces likelihood of wounds caused in cc, esp when fighting tau)
- Give 1 lightning claw to each termy squad
- Warpflame gargoyles on the land raider (3 points left)

I think those are all of my options... Wotcha reckon?

Cheers!

An ADL anchors part of your force. Why not put an load of axes, power gloves, etc on one of the terminator units and and the twin linked autocannon. Pop them in the ADL and circle the ADL panels around the back of them (make an enclosure) when they get charged would that make it a charge over difficult ground then the enemy strikes at Iniative 1 and you get to use the gloves.... and something like an AP3 template weapon makes no difference to them.

Expensive but the ADL will not be overrun!

That's a really cool idea, though in this instance I'll be facing Tau, so assaults are going to be the last thing I should worry about. I think I'm definitely going to surround my havocs though, just to protect them from fire from all directions.

Not sure I'd put a load of fists / axes behind an ADL though as my opponents just wouldnt charge them.