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With most armies getting spiffy new units, and generally slowly upgrading there tech per say, how will the brets ever manage to keep up with the other races? I'm curious how they even do it in the fluff. I mean for all the time it takes to become a decent knight, an empire pistolier can blast them out of the saddle with one shot (fluff wise, although I'm sure they do it on the tabletop too). The only possible thing I can think of is in the new book, whenever that may be, make their cavalry super cheap so it can be spammed, but outside of that I'm not sure.

Also, as a bonus question of sorts, I want to run peasant bowman, how do you guys run them/see them ran? I was thinking a line of 10 with braziers, and not bothering with command units.

Even against a Pistoleer, a Knight has a 4+ armor save followed by a 6+ ward. Thats a pretty good save.

Bretts will probably get a minor point dediction on their cavelry but nothing major. A KotR will just be slightly cheaper than an Empire knight.


Fluffwise, Brettonia is a backwards country. As things progress, they will remain stagnent. Of course Magic is a good equalizer...

They are also allies(obstensibly) of the Empire.

They will win the same way they do now. Drop a rock or two on the big units, charge three units of knights into the biggest thing they can reliably break on the charge, the play avoidance games until time runs out.

With faith in the Lady. Plus underpriced trebuchets.

Bretonnia is a solid list. Their maneuverability and free ward save is what I win games with. They have options enough in their book to take on anything in 8th. Also, when will people learn to spell bretonnia correctly?

utulien of the imperium wrote:
Bretonnia is a solid list. Their maneuverability and free ward save is what I win games with. They have options enough in their book to take on anything in 8th. Also, when will people learn to spell bretonnia correctly?

Exactly. The only blaring weakness in the list is taking out units in buildings.

They have incredibly under priced trebs, access to flying monsterous cav, cheap spellcasters, and lots of cheap infantry/archers, core knights, and access to the lores that compliment them the best. The magic items they have access to also got a big buff.

The newer books might be getting new toys, but most of them are the same power level as they were before their book(read: very well balanced)

~xalfej

Well, fluff is fluff. A catapult in a world where you can open dimensional rifts is pretty insignificant. Or a giant vs. the best chariot ever made is just a foot rest.

But semi-fluff, it was a long time before guns outpaced bows. Long long time. They were just so unbelievably inaccurate, expensive, difficult to use, train. Look at the casualty rates in the American Revolution. I think more people died from Overpoliteness than actual bullets.

And cavalry can be whatever you want. This is a world of magic. And knights. If a bowman, however sucky, cost 1pt, Brettonians would be studs. If knights cost 1/2 point, Empire would be conquered tomorrow.

So they start cloning horses and hire a zillion dwarfs to make armor. On the job training for the knights.

Along with high elvesBret`s are the most visually boring army in the game, so why bother having them? Its just a special rules army - yawn.

If your elves or brets are visually boring, then you aren't painting them right! The models are just a canvas for your imagination.

Wern't they supposed to be getting a new codex soon?

Or was that just another "proven false by time" rumor.

jprp wrote:
Along with high elvesBret`s are the most visually boring army in the game, so why bother having them? Its just a special rules army - yawn.

And you play/ paint?

As a seasoned Bretonnia player I hope for a new book, but I am in no way desperate for one. I do well with what I field for the moment, and its been a long time since I feared fighting any army with my knights. And to answer your question, they are keeping up just fine although they need some amount of skill & time to master

Bretts have great visual potential. Its just that painting heraldry can be mentally exausting, so most chicken out and paint them similarly.

Plus the models are older sculpts.


But painted decently, Bretts can be awsome. And nothing is more awsome than charging cavelry.

I know many will consider it heresy, but I do hope Brets get a heavy infantry unit (whether its upgraded MaA, return of Squires sans bows, something like 'Knights of the Forsaken Lance', or whatever the reason).

I know my Bret friend would like to stop re-enacting a scene out of the 1612 movie when we play Siege by having some decent Foot Knights to scale the walls.

Brets simply suffer from 8th nerfing cavalry and smart movement. Their list itself could only need a few tweaks, e.g. peasants being cheaper, but overall, I agree, you cannot really change much without changing the army's overall style.

They came off better than others because their cavelry have Ranks.

2 Brett lances hitting a Horde of infantry will still break it, assuming the infantry had 3-4 ranks in Horde formation. A brett lance also has 3-4 ranks and minimizes the damage it takes in return.

They won't break infantry that go deep but thats what they use their high movement to avoid.


Bretts are fine, you just need to pick your targets wisely and use movement intelligently. Smart movement still exists, there is just no guessing. Saying it doesn't exist is completely wrong. Its just different.

 Eggs wrote:
If your elves or brets are visually boring, then you aren't painting them right! The models are just a canvas for your imagination.

I dont have any - because of how they look-that was the point, brets are almost a non fantasy army in mini form, most of the fantasy element is special rules rather than interesting models Empire is bad enough but brets take it to a whole new level.
The only reason i can see for wanting to play them is that you already have a historical army and want to try WHFB without buying a new army.

 Grey Templar wrote:
They came off better than others because their cavelry have Ranks.

2 Brett lances hitting a Horde of infantry will still break it, assuming the infantry had 3-4 ranks in Horde formation. A brett lance also has 3-4 ranks and minimizes the damage it takes in return.

They won't break infantry that go deep but thats what they use their high movement to avoid.


Bretts are fine, you just need to pick your targets wisely and use movement intelligently. Smart movement still exists, there is just no guessing. Saying it doesn't exist is completely wrong. Its just different.

Thus I never said that it was removed. It was "nerfed". Bretonnia has one major drawback: pretty much balanced army.

jprp wrote:
Along with high elvesBret`s are the most visually boring army in the game, so why bother having them? Its just a special rules army - yawn.

So you would rather there be no special rules? Just blocks of troops with just their general characteristics crashing into eachother? Brets also look beautiful when they're fully painted in individual heraldry.

I would rather there be no brets at all, in fact no humans would be good, they could have all been absorbed into the chaos ranks or wiped out.

in terms of the game as a whole i would prefer stat based bonuses/upgrades rather than loads of "special Rules" that over complicate things and slow the game down. Pretty much all versions of WHFB have had fairly sound basic rules systems that get smashed to bits when the army books bring in tons of ways of avoiding the games underlying mechanics-same is broadly true of the magic and magic weapons-could be far simpler and allow for much bigger games.


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utulien of the imperium wrote:

jprp wrote:
Along with high elvesBret`s are the most visually boring army in the game, so why bother having them? Its just a special rules army - yawn.

So you would rather there be no special rules? Just blocks of troops with just their general characteristics crashing into eachother? Brets also look beautiful when they're fully painted in individual heraldry.

They look like men on foot or men on horses however you paint them-boring-bring out the monsters.

It really sounds like Warhammer isnt for you, I mean no offense but humans and special rules are pretty much intertwined with the system ever since the beginning

jprp wrote:
I would rather there be no brets at all, in fact no humans would be good, they could have all been absorbed into the chaos ranks or wiped out.

in terms of the game as a whole i would prefer stat based bonuses/upgrades rather than loads of "special Rules" that over complicate things and slow the game down. Pretty much all versions of WHFB have had fairly sound basic rules systems that get smashed to bits when the army books bring in tons of ways of avoiding the games underlying mechanics-same is broadly true of the magic and magic weapons-could be far simpler and allow for much bigger games.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

utulien of the imperium wrote:

jprp wrote:
Along with high elvesBret`s are the most visually boring army in the game, so why bother having them? Its just a special rules army - yawn.

So you would rather there be no special rules? Just blocks of troops with just their general characteristics crashing into eachother? Brets also look beautiful when they're fully painted in individual heraldry.

They look like men on foot or men on horses however you paint them-boring-bring out the monsters.

Bret special rules are pretty simple, and add variety to the game. Also, nearly every core troop choice for every race is basically guys on foot or mounted. You don't seem to understand that painted brets look good.

Well the obvious solution is don't play Bretts if you don't like their aestetics. There are people that like them.

 kenshin620 wrote:
It really sounds like Warhammer isnt for you, I mean no offense but humans and special rules are pretty much intertwined with the system ever since the beginning

Really? Ive only been in the hobby since 84, thanks for the insight.
Point is brets are the "weakest" looking range in fantasy (and are based on one of the lamest nations on earth!).
Its a FANTASY game and ive never understood the attraction of a non fantastic "race" when you have loads of "monster" races to choose from.

FANTASY=MONSTERS
SCI-FI=MONSTERS AND ROBOTS its as simple as that.



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 Grey Templar wrote:
Well the obvious solution is don't play Bretts if you don't like their aestetics. There are people that like them.

I already said that i dont.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

utulien of the imperium wrote:

jprp wrote:
I would rather there be no brets at all, in fact no humans would be good, they could have all been absorbed into the chaos ranks or wiped out.

in terms of the game as a whole i would prefer stat based bonuses/upgrades rather than loads of "special Rules" that over complicate things and slow the game down. Pretty much all versions of WHFB have had fairly sound basic rules systems that get smashed to bits when the army books bring in tons of ways of avoiding the games underlying mechanics-same is broadly true of the magic and magic weapons-could be far simpler and allow for much bigger games.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

utulien of the imperium wrote:

jprp wrote:
Along with high elvesBret`s are the most visually boring army in the game, so why bother having them? Its just a special rules army - yawn.

So you would rather there be no special rules? Just blocks of troops with just their general characteristics crashing into eachother? Brets also look beautiful when they're fully painted in individual heraldry.

They look like men on foot or men on horses however you paint them-boring-bring out the monsters.

Bret special rules are pretty simple, and add variety to the game. Also, nearly every core troop choice for every race is basically guys on foot or mounted. You don't seem to understand that painted brets look good.

They look s%it.

With a bit of Googling you could probably turn up some pictures of Adie Mac's Bret army, it's beautifully painted and has won a number of best painted trophies. He does mix in some alternate ranges however to add some variety.

jprp wrote:
Point is brets are the "weakest" looking range in fantasy (and are based on one of the lamest nations on earth!).

You consider your own country 'the lamest on earth'?

Bretonnia is a blend of medieval France, Brittany and the UK. Not to mention a healthy dose of British history, like the crusades and the quest for the grail.

jprp wrote:


Really? Ive only been in the hobby since 84, thanks for the insight.
Point is brets are the "weakest" looking range in fantasy (and are based on one of the lamest nations on earth!).
Its a FANTASY game and ive never understood the attraction of a non fantastic "race" when you have loads of "monster" races to choose from.

FANTASY=MONSTERS
SCI-FI=MONSTERS AND ROBOTS its as simple as that.

What a stupidly oversimplified and rather inaccurate post. Bretonnia are based on a 'Lame' nation, funny cause a lot of their lore comes from old Arthurian stories originating in the British Isles. I'm sure you overlooked that fact to take a stab at your culturally superior neighbours again, too bad they didn't start a war so your 'comedians' could flog that horse to death as well.

jprp wrote:
Its a FANTASY game and ive never understood the attraction of a non fantastic "race" when you have loads of "monster" races to choose from.

FANTASY=MONSTERS
SCI-FI=MONSTERS AND ROBOTS its as simple as that.

About this... you never realized that all popular Fantasy settings have humans? You never stopped to think why?

Fantasy settings are less fantastical when there is no baseline relatable race to compare the fantastical elements to.

Humans do that the best, because we are humans. Seeing how powerful an Orc is to a Beastman Gor doesn't have the same impact. Throw a human in there, and you get a sense of just how powerful they are, because you can see how powerful each is to the human.

Not to mention, when you've got three entire evil races based around being humans (Warriors of Chaos, Tomb Kings and Vampire Counts), it's sort of hard to cut humans out.

It's not like GW hasn't practically reduced many of the other human nations with their own cultural identities to that of a blurb with only the Empire and Brets being its own real representation.

Empire got quite a bit more along the lines of the fantastical over the historical after their latest additions. Brets will probably get the same treatment when they finally come around.

jprp wrote:

Point is brets are the "weakest" looking range in fantasy (and are based on one of the lamest nations on earth!).

...stopped reading here. There goes any credibility you ever had.

Don't take part in tournaments please. The sight of empire armies might blind your eyes.

 Goldshield wrote:

It's not like GW hasn't practically reduced many of the other human nations with their own cultural identities to that of a blurb with only the Empire and Brets being its own real representation.

Empire got quite a bit more along the lines of the fantastical over the historical after their latest additions. Brets will probably get the same treatment when they finally come around.

Well, Brettonia does have Pegeasus, Hyppogryphs, a Magical Rambo Knight that pops out of Forests, and magic wielding damsels that ride Unicorns.

Celtic and Arthurian legends certaintly qualify for the Fantesy setting this is in.