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Point for point, I've found that Landspeeders are better in a lot of ways. I can take 3 Speeders for 270, have 6 missiles and 9 HB shots, or 2 Stormtalons w/ 4 Missiles and 8 Assault cannon shots for 310. Not to mention, Speeders are a whole hell of a lot easier to hide. One Aegis Gun will obliterate a Stormtalon most of the time, unless you devote a silly amount of firepower into blowing up the Aegis Gun turn one. (Which Speeders can do by themselves >.&gt (An Aegis gun manned by a Space Marine will generally hit all 4 times, and then have a 50% chance to glance/pen a talon).

It also suffers from being the only current flyer with 2 Hull Points. (other than the Blight Drone, but it's Forge World)

If you are using them to take down enemy flyers, the standard rule applies for flyer on flyer action: If you don't go second, you are dead.

Stormtalons have their place in escorting outflanking scouts. Or getting behind an Aegis Line and hover striking.

They'd be totally worth it if they where 135pts w/ the Typhoon Launcher. As they are now... eh.

When your flyer comes in first, is it a legal move to enter and leave the table in the same turn?
Thus your flyer would enter ongoing reserve coming back automatically in the next turn...
Sure you would loose one precious turn of shooting but you would get first strike against the opposing flyer, could be useful when you don't have the advantage .
Which with storm talon would be almost everytime an opponent field flyer .

I Dont see a problem with ST...

I mean they are really good Imo Small hull compared to other Flyers, The weapons to deal with other flyers/ground units is entertaining (if you have lascannons and Assault cannons you even have a chance to pen a Vendetta, and before anyone starts about the AV 12 so is isn't likely, I have seen dozens of times Dreads exploding my Hellbrute's with a assault cannons, my point? Hellbrute's are AV 12 and so is a Vendetta and with the Assault cannon on the ST which is also skyfire it has the same chance as Exploding one on a Assault cannon plus the Twin-linked lascannon which Increases its chances as well), it is a Flyer.

So Its a great unit Imo, although I would take three because I love the model (It reminds my of an Apache) and because The weapons are very nice, Yeah its AV 11 thats a Feth load better than the Ork counterpart which is AV 10 (see how good one point increase is?) and that AV starting to become standard for 6th for flyers.

 happygolucky wrote:
I Dont see a problem with ST...

I mean they are really good

Whaaaat. Nooooo.

More like "decent at best."

 CaptainGrey wrote:

 happygolucky wrote:
I Dont see a problem with ST...

I mean I personally think they are really good

Whaaaat. Nooooo.

More like "decent at best."

EDIT: Fixed it

Is it good compared to the vendetta? No.

The stormraven? The stormraven is really pricey, but is harder to kill and packs a major punch vs other fliers. I'd say the stormtalon looks better compared to this.

Other fliers: I'm not as familiar for comparison. However, I will say I do plan on bringing a stormtalon as my fast attack ally choice from Vanilla allies for BA. I believe it can escort a stormraven. I'm doing this because I don't quite want to spend for two stormravens.

The ST is not bad but it die more faster than a land speeder.

hellpato wrote:
The ST is not bad but it die more faster than a land speeder.

Err, what? How does AV 11 and hit on 6s die faster than AV 10 and hit on normal BS?

You can take a Storm Eagle without taking an Ally too, it's a bit more than the Storm Raven, but 4 hull points and carries even more guys. The guns on the thing isnt too bad either.

hellpato wrote:
The ST is not bad but it die more faster than a land speeder.

Not even slightly true.

 Peregrine wrote:

hellpato wrote:
The ST is not bad but it die more faster than a land speeder.

Err, what? How does AV 11 and hit on 6s die faster than AV 10 and hit on normal BS?

Very simple, They attract more attention than the land speeders, they get more hits and blow up.

Ok may be I had a very bad game that day but when I look the cost of a stormtalon vs a land speeder, I will choose the land speeder first and the stormtalon if I have enough points. I understand why GW gave only two hull points but the damn thing need something for me to become a first pick up choice, not a second or third choice. Lowing the cost, more options or anything that made it more like an Apache Helicopter than a flying landspeeder. I like to use it but is not the main asset of my army.

hellpato wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:

hellpato wrote:
The ST is not bad but it die more faster than a land speeder.

Err, what? How does AV 11 and hit on 6s die faster than AV 10 and hit on normal BS?

Very simple, They attract more attention than the land speeders, they get more hits and blow up.

Ok may be I had a very bad game that day but when I look the cost of a stormtalon vs a land speeder, I will choose the land speeder first and the stormtalon if I have enough points. I understand why GW gave only two hull points but the damn thing need something for me to become a first pick up choice, not a second or third choice. Lowing the cost, more options or anything that made it more like an Apache Helicopter than a flying landspeeder. I like to use it but is not the main asset of my army.

Landspeeders are far better, if only for MultiMelta delivery. Landspeeders can be killed by bolters and anything stronger. It will take an average of 18 Bolter shots to kill a Landspeeder.

Stormtalons have no impressive weaponry. Stormtalons cannot be killed by bolters. Only stuff stronger. It will take an average of infinity bolter shots to kill a Stormtalon.

If your stormtalons get focus-fired, that's due to a list's poor target saturation. It has nothing to do with how fast a unit dies to enemy units.

 CaptainGrey wrote:

hellpato wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:

hellpato wrote:
The ST is not bad but it die more faster than a land speeder.

Err, what? How does AV 11 and hit on 6s die faster than AV 10 and hit on normal BS?

Very simple, They attract more attention than the land speeders, they get more hits and blow up.

Ok may be I had a very bad game that day but when I look the cost of a stormtalon vs a land speeder, I will choose the land speeder first and the stormtalon if I have enough points. I understand why GW gave only two hull points but the damn thing need something for me to become a first pick up choice, not a second or third choice. Lowing the cost, more options or anything that made it more like an Apache Helicopter than a flying landspeeder. I like to use it but is not the main asset of my army.

Landspeeders are far better, if only for MultiMelta delivery. Landspeeders can be killed by bolters and anything stronger. It will take an average of 18 Bolter shots to kill a Landspeeder.

Stormtalons have no impressive weaponry. Stormtalons cannot be killed by bolters. Only stuff stronger. It will take an average of infinity bolter shots to kill a Stormtalon.

If your stormtalons get focus-fired, that's due to a list's poor target saturation. It has nothing to do with how fast a unit dies to enemy units.

Your right. But when I look how I used the stormtalon in my Raven Guard army (hunting tanks or troops holding objectives) I can have more land speeders to do the same job. If I want to use the Stormtalon has a flyer hunter, I will focus for devastaror squad (missil launcher with skyfier) to kick the other flyers. <

The ST is a good anti infantry/small tank hunters flyer but using it as a multi-tools for a fast respond to all situation or a pain in the ass for everybody else.... the ST is not ready to do that kind of job, The best move to give some punch to the stormtalon is to become a fast 1-3 choice.

 krados wrote:
When your flyer comes in first, is it a legal move to enter and leave the table in the same turn?
Thus your flyer would enter ongoing reserve coming back automatically in the next turn...
Sure you would loose one precious turn of shooting but you would get first strike against the opposing flyer, could be useful when you don't have the advantage .
Which with storm talon would be almost everytime an opponent field flyer .

It is not a legal move to move it on the board and then off again.

The Stormtalon is decent at best. I'd still prefer a squad of Land Speeders over a Stormtalon, if just because my Speeders can unload 6 Missiles / 9 HB shots on the first turn, assisting the alpha strike.

Of course, it depends on your army list. If you are using a Quadgun and need a bit of extra Anti-Air, go ahead! Take the talon. If you are like myself, and running 2 Vindicators, a Contemptor Mortis, and 3 Tactical Squads mounted in Rhinos, the Speeders will meld well with the army, providing some fast moving support, good anti light tank (or even AV13, if the missiles go well), and, I find, they generally don't get targeted if the opponent has a wall of tanks (and a walker) to worry about.

Hellpato how do you get skyfire missile launchers? Do you ally with DA?

hellpato wrote:
If I want to use the Stormtalon has a flyer hunter, I will focus for devastaror squad

Devastators cannot get skyfire in C:SM.

Well, too bad you can't enter and leave in the same turn ,good thing i hadn't tried it yet.
As for the storm talon i think the developer really managed to make a unit that really fit with the design of C:SM.
I mean it is able to fulfill many roles (anti light vehicule,air superiority,anti-infantry) yet it excells at none and is slightly overpriced compared to alternatives in other PA codexes.
Playing C:SM is really like playing PA on hard mode, just look at the BA codex it is essentially the same with around 4 units swapped out, none of them really in favor of C:SM,yet most of the stuff that is in both is cheaper or better in the BA book.
By that reasoning if you play C:SM you either are a little masochist or you like a challenge,so Stormtalon is perfect for you. You have to outplay your opponent because most of your units are inferior or overpriced....like the stormtalon.

So if you are a competitive player i think there is no reason to deploy it unless you chose an ally with worse flyers or to supplement the number of flyer you bring.
For fun games tough i had good results with mine.It is a good tool, useful to help de-mech the opponent or keep is flyers somewhat occupied for a turn or two.

Note that outplaying your opponent with flyers is nigh impossible,flyers can usually target another flyer anywehere on the board when they come in so it really comes down to luck or listbuilding.You cannot really get air superiority against someone who brought the same number of better flyers or has just a lot more than you do.

 CaptainGrey wrote:

hellpato wrote:
If I want to use the Stormtalon has a flyer hunter, I will focus for devastaror squad

Devastators cannot get skyfire in C:SM.

I know that (need an update for the C:SM even everybody know that a 10 pts upgrade). At worse, use snapshot with missile launcher.

hellpato wrote:

I know that (need an update for the C:SM even everybody know that a 10 pts upgrade). At worse, use snapshot with missile launcher.

Storm Eagle is pretty pricy, but hey, 12 all around with 4 HB makes it pretty much the most durable flyer in the whole game and packs a ton of fire power, and with PoMS you can drop the Vengeance Launcher on infantry while shooting tanks/flyers with your AT weapons.

I prefer Stormtalon over land speeders, at least it cannot be brought down by throwing small rocks at it. It however is silly that it only has two hull points, DA flyers with pretty much the same hull have three. I hope they give ST three hull points in that upcoming flyer supplement (and reduce Valkyries and Vendettas to AV 11.)