Mantic Games - Sci-fi News & Rumors: Sci-Fi Zombies released.

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**Azazelx**

sukura636 wrote:
SS is completely not on the Mantic Payroll. Totally untrue.

Tbh I trust the objective person more than the cynic, every time. The only thing that worries me about SS is when anyone mentions Hard Plastic. The man's obsessed!

I tend to find "the cynic" type to be pretty objective most of the time. Perhaps a little less hopeful and a little more realistic (given the way things tend to play out). Not to confuse the cynic with "the hater" though. That's a different kettle of Kroot.

**Micky**

I think I'd prefer characters and elites to be in restic than in metal... at least with restic the material is a lot easier to work with and you don't have to do pinning or scoring or greenstuffing just to make stuff stick together.

...wouldn't the moulds be the same anyway?

I got the 2013 xmas goodie box, and I have to say the mix of plastic and restic stuff in there made for some interesting comparisons. I got some old plastic (elven archers) which, frankly, was amazing. Those models were fantastic, went together really well, had minimal cleanup needed. Then there was new plastic (men at arms) which, well, was still good, but not *as* good. I think maybe just not a great sculpt. And then there was some WP restic and that by far required the most effort, so much cleanup needed and I'm honestly not sure the models were any better looking than the plastic ones.

**Azazelx**

scarletsquig wrote:
^ It took me a month to take the mould lines off/ hot water bend my Deadzone minis (I'm painting them now, yay!). I still haven't taken the mould lines off my restic basileans after 7 months. There are 80 cavalry there, and every single one of them so far has required hot water bends on the two halves to avoid gaps. Every single sister arm needs hot water bending. I've started a mini-project of a 14-model angel army just to preserve my sanity. Ever seen a painted mass-infantry basilean army posted online other than the official pics? I sure haven't!

There are recent mantic minis that have taken me longer to clean and assemble than to paint. I will never give up the broken record on that front since the affordable hard plastics of old were what people really loved about the company.

I remember the first mantic boxes, you got a painting guide, poster (both printed on very high quality paper) and shield stickers in the box (which itself was foam lined and re-usable), everything felt really luxurious for an extremely low price. Even the sprues had superior casting quality and finer detail, better sculpts etc. than the last GW product I had bought (empire infantry, soft detail, horrible mould lines, a few sprues slung in a cardboard box). It really made me think "hang on, why the hell should I even bother with GW anymore?", and then the KoW beta sealed the deal. Fantastic free rules of superior quality to GW, great friendly company. Awesome.

I first picked up an undead box early 2010 and was just blown away by how superior the quality of the product was compared to GW, while being sold at a third of the price.

Just a bit nostalgic for those old days where, okay, Mantic only released one army every six months, but you got a real sense of a lot of care and effort having gone into the product. People might not have liked the dwarf sculpts but they did get six separate hard plastic sprues.

These days it's a bit more "rush it out the door to meet KS deadline, even if we know it's not really the quality standard we used to produce."

There is no getting away from the fact that restic costs twice as much as hard plastic and takes at least twice as long to assemble and clean. The only benefit of the material (other than easy reposing, which shouldn't be required if there is enough part variety in the first place) is that the tools are cheaper. This is a benefit to Mantic, but not a benefit to the end consumer, who would prefer lower pricing and minis that are easier to work with.

Ahyeap. I picked up all of the DreadBall teams from the KS, but haven't played a single game due to not having the time or inclination to spend the time cleaning up all of that gakky restic. If/when I bother to get around to playing it, I'm realistically more likely to be using my Orc bloodbowl team. Because painted/better models/time/effort. I've painted a total of 6 of the KoW figures from the KS (with WIP on another 6 ogres) I think I have around 100 of them due to last minute model changing from the trolls. How many of those will I realistically ever build or paint? Also got a ton of cavalry - close to the number you have, actually. The sisters are in a box somewhere - I'll never build or paint them. Maybe spare parts for something? Maybe? Yeah, ok - probably not.

I did pick up an undead army (2 of their Undead army deals) and those guys are much better quality, even the restic cavalry (especially the cavalry?) Those guys will get painted long before I delve into most of the other Mantic stuff, but still aren't at the top of the paint queue right now.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Thraxas Of Turai wrote:

I do think it is inevitable though that if Mantic do wish to continue to grow a reliable provider of hard plastic sprues is the way to go. I have only recently got into Maliufaux and their hard plastic kits are spectacular, the trade off is you pay for it. But given the model count for that game being similar to Deadzone maybe that higher price, higher quality, lower model count is a route that Mantic can go? I just do not know how many people would be happy to pay for it.

The thing with that is that Ronnie (and Mantic) have stated many times that their "endgame" is easy to play, affordable, truly massive tabletop battles. To this end, hard plastic is the kinf of long-term option that's far better for both the company and the end consumer. They just need to be smarter with their models, and I suspect that GW-style multi-unit sprue boxes in hard plastic is the best option, so why they're not going for it still boggles the mind.

Sprues in HIPS of <insert race here> models with separate arms (not fething lego hands) for spears, sword and board (board also usable with shields), 2-handers, missile option (bow/xbow as appropriate) and 2-3 head options (for the different units), a couple of additional armour pieces plus a command sprue with standard options, musician options, champion weapon options, and even more fancy heads.

They would need to find a company that can pack bits into a sprue, GW-style - but then they'd only need one boxed set per race for several types of basic infantry. And it would kick so much arse.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

judgedoug wrote:
Just saw this on their Facebook. Someone asked about the fancy new interactive Dreadball book/app for iPad/iPhone/tablets/ereaders/webapp in comparison to the pre-existing pdf's from Wargames Vault and they said

"This is going to be a different product to the Wargame Vault pdfs - it's designed from the ground up with tablets and smartphones in mind, and has loads of bells and whistles. However, we're going to give everyone who bought a DreadBall rulebook through WGV a discount equal to the what they've already paid "

Good form, Mantic.

Heh. Nice way to say "Kickstarter backers won't be getting this one, sorry!"

Automatically Appended Next Post:

CptJake wrote:
sukura636 wrote:
That said, restic is here to say, for elite troops and certain larger things.

Great, because I want my special characters and elite troops to have really really hard to remove mold lines across their faces.

CptJake wrote:
All my Marauders are a frickin mess. The soft detail on the Enforcers is really bad. My Plague are okay, have not gotten to the rebs yet. I am still trying to find the motivation to finish the orks, the gun track and the rest of what came in that bag being the latest Fun Fest I am enduring.

I honestly can't imagine Mantic attempting to do a larger vehicle in this material and having it come out any better. Vehicles should be show pieces of an army. I don't think Mantic have it in them as a company, and am fearful of what I am going to receive with the rest of my DZ pledge and my Mars Attacks pledge, both of which have vehicles.

See, this sort of thing makes me want to buy things like the rules from Mantic for their games, maybe scenery, and then stick with my existing GW/Rackham collection of models, supplemented by things like Hasslefree, Kromlech, Victoria, RaginShiroz, etc - rather than using actual Mantic models.

**carlos13th**

Mantic need to go back to hard plastic they started out with. Especially because their goal is for the most part to build big army's. Obviously this applies a little less to Deadzone.

Thing is say what you like about the mantic elves or dwarfs from a design standpoint (I like the elves skinny faye like design some dont) but in terms of how the end model turned out on the sprue the moulding is fantastic.

**agnosto**

carlos13th wrote:
Mantic need to go back to hard plastic they started out with. Especially because their goal is for the most part to build big army's. Obviously this applies a little less to Deadzone.

Thing is say what you like about the mantic elves or dwarfs from a design standpoint (I like the elves skinny faye like design some dont) but in terms of how the end model turned out on the sprue the moulding is fantastic.

It's because those early plastics are Renedra, before Renedra got backed up and Mantic discovered Kickstarter and a taste for Chinese restic and skinny leg models.

P.s. folks interested in my KoW stuff; I'll post it later in the week. I'm a bit busy until Thursday.

**carlos13th**

Wish they could have stuck with Rendara.

Have some elves I started painting and will probably add to them and make a full elf army once I both have the cash have done the Samurai I am slowly working on.

**Alpharius**

Huh.

I've got a bunck of KoW stuff I'd sell cheap to any interested party.

A bunch of Ogres and other bits and bobs.

PM me if interested!

On topic here - yes, more 'real' plastic and less 'restic', please.

I suppose it is encouraging to read that Ronnie and company realize that this is the only way for the future on Mantic, and I know that 'hard plastic' is the only thing I'll be buying from them in any quantity anymore.

And that is ONLY if the 'hard plastic' Enforcers, Space Zombie, etc. from Deadzone turn out well.

**judgedoug**

Azazelx wrote:

judgedoug wrote:
Just saw this on their Facebook. Someone asked about the fancy new interactive Dreadball book/app for iPad/iPhone/tablets/ereaders/webapp in comparison to the pre-existing pdf's from Wargames Vault and they said

"This is going to be a different product to the Wargame Vault pdfs - it's designed from the ground up with tablets and smartphones in mind, and has loads of bells and whistles. However, we're going to give everyone who bought a DreadBall rulebook through WGV a discount equal to the what they've already paid "

Good form, Mantic.

Heh. Nice way to say "Kickstarter backers won't be getting this one, sorry!"

Well, I mean, why would we? It wasn't part of the Kickstarter. I feel I have about as much right to getting it for 'free' was I would the new Dreadball scenario pack thing.

**sparkywtf**

judgedoug wrote:
Azazelx wrote:

judgedoug wrote:
Just saw this on their Facebook. Someone asked about the fancy new interactive Dreadball book/app for iPad/iPhone/tablets/ereaders/webapp in comparison to the pre-existing pdf's from Wargames Vault and they said

"This is going to be a different product to the Wargame Vault pdfs - it's designed from the ground up with tablets and smartphones in mind, and has loads of bells and whistles. However, we're going to give everyone who bought a DreadBall rulebook through WGV a discount equal to the what they've already paid "

Good form, Mantic.

Heh. Nice way to say "Kickstarter backers won't be getting this one, sorry!"

Well, I mean, why would we? It wasn't part of the Kickstarter. I feel I have about as much right to getting it for 'free' was I would the new Dreadball scenario pack thing.

While it would be nice to have (free bonus besides all our other free bonuses we got!), I don't feel cheated because we aren't getting it.

**frozenwastes**

I don't mind restic at all. I just want good restic where extra attention is paid not to get heat-twisted casts, mould lines on the worst possible spot and a variety of other issues with the material that Mantic seems to have but Privateer does not.

At least with hard plastic though, if they screw up on the mould design and have mould lines destroying detail, it's way, way easier to salvage.

**sukura636**

"Mantic need to go back to HP"

Yep. I'm really not sure how many times this has been re-iterated, but everyone agrees, including Mantic. Which is why they're doing it. This sort of thing doesn't happen overnight, you know.

**Talking Banana**

If I were Mantic, I'd be trying to get that Plague zombie sprue finalized and ready to show backers BEFORE sending out the second survey. I'm hearing a lot of gloom and doom here, but if that zombie sprue turns out great, they're going to get a lot more second survey orders.

**lord_blackfang**

Vermonter wrote:
If I were Mantic, I'd be trying to get that Plague zombie sprue finalized and ready to show backers BEFORE sending out the second survey. I'm hearing a lot of gloom and doom here, but if that zombie sprue turns out great, they're going to get a lot more second survey orders.

Agreed. I'm happy with the first 4 factions so I'll get the other 2 in any case, but if the hard plastic sprues turn out well, then, well... I could see myself ordering loads.

**judgedoug**

sukura636 wrote:
"Mantic need to go back to HP"

Yep. I'm really not sure how many times this has been re-iterated, but everyone agrees, including Mantic. Which is why they're doing it. This sort of thing doesn't happen overnight, you know.

Yeah, this needs to be reiterated every page. Three people bring it up, someone points out that Ronnie knows and Mantic is attempting to address it, someone doesn't read that and posts again about how they wish Mantic would go back to hard plastic, starting another chain reaction including "I don't like restic", "something was a disappointment", "I like restic better than metal", "I wish Mantic would realize they need to do plastic again". I think we actually have one real news/rumor about once every five pages, haha.

**Polonius**

Well, that's the biggest thing with Mantic at this point, isn't it?

Their ideas are clearly great, it's just execution.

They're like a local restaurant that has great stuff on their menu, and is cheap, but the service is lousy, the food often wrong, and a lot of dishes come out bland.

**Alpharius**

Exactly!

The fact that it keeps coming up means that maybe Mantic themselves should do a better job of communicating it - possibly even through Official Channels, Updates, etc.!

**Polonius**

And it's becoming clearer that Mantic is shutting itself off from normal communication channels, at least based on people's posts here.

What mantic should be doing is rolling out articles, videos, and podcasts that actually help people use their product. Examples:
1) a visual checklist for all parts, so backers can inventory their boxes
2) assembly guides, explaining what parts go where
3) Videos on the hot water method, gap filling, and other tricks to overcome the limits of restic

Instead, we hear about another bloody kickstarter. I'm getting tired of hoping the next stuff will be good. I want to make the best out of what I have, and I'd like it if Mantic did something to help that out.

**CptJake**

Polonius wrote:
And it's becoming clearer that Mantic is shutting itself off from normal communication channels, at least based on people's posts here.

What mantic should be doing is rolling out articles, videos, and podcasts that actually help people use their product. Examples:
1) a visual checklist for all parts, so backers can inventory their boxes
2) assembly guides, explaining what parts go where
3) Videos on the hot water method, gap filling, and other tricks to overcome the limits of restic

Instead, we hear about another bloody kickstarter. I'm getting tired of hoping the next stuff will be good. I want to make the best out of what I have, and I'd like it if Mantic did something to help that out.

Interestingly enough I just heard back from Mantic thanks to a staff email I got via PM. I had sent an inquiry this morning.

Due to the holiday period we are running a little behind on emails, I'll get back to you as soon as posible.

In the meantime, here's a quick FAQ:

- I’ve got some missing pieces in my order! What do I do?

- Please complete an Order Query Form so we know all the details. We'll be looking over these in January and sorting them all out. http://bit.ly/1dyMkWa

So, 22 days into January and I still get the automated 'we're on vacation, use the form and we'll get back with you' email. Nice. Of course my inquiry has to do with the form I filled out at their request in early December.

feth a return to hard plastics, how about a return to basic customer service practices?

**scarletsquig**

Polonius wrote:
And it's becoming clearer that Mantic is shutting itself off from normal communication channels, at least based on people's posts here.

What mantic should be doing is rolling out articles, videos, and podcasts that actually help people use their product. Examples:
1) a visual checklist for all parts, so backers can inventory their boxes
2) assembly guides, explaining what parts go where
3) Videos on the hot water method, gap filling, and other tricks to overcome the limits of restic

Instead, we hear about another bloody kickstarter. I'm getting tired of hoping the next stuff will be good. I want to make the best out of what I have, and I'd like it if Mantic did something to help that out.

1)

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1744629938/deadzone-the-sci-fi-miniatures-board-game/posts/691466

3)

Credit where its due. Assembly guides are definitely required and wouldn't have even taken much work to do.

If you want to ask Mantic anything, facebook is the best way to get in touch, and you can often pick up info from there that isn't posted anywhere else. Here's some info from James that is probably worth relaying:

James M Hewitt wrote: Confusion everywhere!

The hard plastic Enforcers are still a WIP. Things are looking good, but it's too early to say 100% for certain! In any case, they're not due for ages - these are available in the meantime. Of what's available, the Captain and Specialists will stay in Restic; the basic troopers will hopefully go to Hard Plastic, along with the Peacekeepers.

As I said, though, nothing's set in stone!

I think I'll try to cross-post anything I see from a staffer that might be of interest to people here, see how it goes, I use FB a lot more than I used to and have joined all the active Mantic groups that I'm aware of.

**Polonius**

Huh, I must have missed that video, but I do recall seeing the parts guide. My bad.

Side question: was the Rebs 2 (booster) bag supposed to be included in the Strike team pack, or was that extra?

I backed at strike team and picked rebs as my faction, and didn't get that, but I guess it was an add-on that I was super dumb, and didn't buy :(

**Alpharius**

Some sort of rough assembly guide/suggested builds for the pile of terrain would be nice too!

**CptJake**

James M Hewitt wrote: Confusion everywhere!

The hard plastic Enforcers are still a WIP. Things are looking good, but it's too early to say 100% for certain! In any case, they're not due for ages - these are available in the meantime. Of what's available, the Captain and Specialists will stay in Restic; the basic troopers will hopefully go to Hard Plastic, along with the Peacekeepers.

As I said, though, nothing's set in stone!

Well, aren't those comforting words.

**sukura636**

Actual News/Rumor - EGADS

After chatting to Ronnie/Mantic, I've been asked to relay that the progress of Hard Plastic enforcers(etc) will be made and made public soon, with a full update, and more info on the way afterwards. All before the Survey Two deadline.

Repeating - you'll know whether or not Hard Plastics are go before the Survey Two Deadline.

And even if the result is in the negative, Mantic will still be pursuing Hard Plastics with fervour.

**pretre**

Hmm. So we might not have HP enforcers for second survey? So when/what will we get to replace the 'temporary' enforcers?

**Bossk_Hogg**

Does anyone know if there's anything extra in the faction starters from Kickstarter vs retail? Currently the only one I'm lacking is the Astarians, but it looks like its $35 to add it in the second pledge manager, and all the starters are $35 retail, so it will be cheaper to just get it at release for me from any discounter. The Stunbot/strider/iron ancestors also look to be better to buy retail. Thanks!

**scarletsquig**

There's a couple of extra figures in the KS starter sets usually.

**skrulnik**

frozenwastes wrote:
I don't mind restic at all. I just want good restic where extra attention is paid not to get heat-twisted casts, mould lines on the worst possible spot and a variety of other issues with the material that Mantic seems to have but Privateer does not.

At least with hard plastic though, if they screw up on the mould design and have mould lines destroying detail, it's way, way easier to salvage.

If you have bought any recent plastic kits from PP lately, you would know how wrong you are.
Their plastics are no better than Mantic's.
The new Trollblood Warders, for example, have horrible mold lines on the heads.
Or any of the Convergence warjack and infantry kits.
And many of their plastic kits have the tears and twists from sprue removal.

**lord_blackfang**

Bossk_Hogg wrote:
Does anyone know if there's anything extra in the faction starters from Kickstarter vs retail? Currently the only one I'm lacking is the Astarians, but it looks like its $35 to add it in the second pledge manager, and all the starters are $35 retail, so it will be cheaper to just get it at release for me from any discounter. The Stunbot/strider/iron ancestors also look to be better to buy retail. Thanks!

But it's $50 for any two faction starters through Kickstarter, so ask around your group if someone wants to go halfsies with you and you could still save money.

**pretre**

lord_blackfang wrote:
Bossk_Hogg wrote:
Does anyone know if there's anything extra in the faction starters from Kickstarter vs retail? Currently the only one I'm lacking is the Astarians, but it looks like its $35 to add it in the second pledge manager, and all the starters are $35 retail, so it will be cheaper to just get it at release for me from any discounter. The Stunbot/strider/iron ancestors also look to be better to buy retail. Thanks!

But it's $50 for any two faction starters through Kickstarter, so ask around your group if someone wants to go halfsies with you and you could still save money.

Are all the faction starters 2 for $50? Or just the asterian/FF bundle?

**lord_blackfang**

Pick and choose!