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Ahh k, nice to know how they go about that stuff.

This makes for some interesting reading in context:

http://quirkworthy.com/2011/09/13/2nd-edition-kings-of-war-review-%E2%80%93-part-1/
http://quirkworthy.com/2011/09/14/2nd-edition-kings-of-war-review-%E2%80%93-part-2/
http://www.wargamesfoundry.com/our-ranges/gob/god-battle
http://quirkworthy.com/2012/03/07/whatever-next/


Apparently Jake wrote the Siege Rules for KoW, which are pretty widely considered not so good.
http://quirkworthy.com/2012/08/10/living-faq-kow-advanced-rules/

he also seems to have lost interest in replying and following up on it, given the way the comments section there tailed off...

Mother of god I haven't had to read that much since uni. Slave driver! (lots of good info though yeah ; p)

Man i wish we could see some of those sprues for the enforcers and the space dwarfs, its like theyre terrified of showing anyon their products

 mitch_rifle wrote:
Man i wish we could see some of those sprues for the enforcers and the space dwarfs, its like theyre terrified of showing anyon their products

According to Deadzone Mission Control the FF hard plastic doesn't arrive in the Mantic warehouse until the 10th, and the Enforcers don't arrive until October, so it's a bit hard to photograph something they don't have

NTRabbit wrote:

 mitch_rifle wrote:
Man i wish we could see some of those sprues for the enforcers and the space dwarfs, its like theyre terrified of showing anyon their products

According to Deadzone Mission Control the FF hard plastic doesn't arrive in the Mantic warehouse until the 10th, and the Enforcers don't arrive until October, so it's a bit hard to photograph something they don't have

I would bet they either have samples they approved or at least damned good pictures they used for the approval. There is almost no chance they approved unseen and are getting to see them the first time when the whole production run is shipped to them.

Because test shots sent to Mantic HQ before production don't exist....not buying it OR that explains quite a bit about Mantic QC, or lack thereof.

I'll just ignore the Zombie test shot that was knocking around at Salute, then.

Well whats the excuse then that they cant give them to use now, im not gonna buy products, especially considering the men at arms fiasco before we can see them, i hate having to rely on someone revewing them rather than the company saying here look

Honestly? No idea why they don't share images. I completely agree that they should be doing it - you're statement being a case in point.

I just like to keep on top of odd assumptions.

 mitch_rifle wrote:
Well whats the excuse then that they cant give them to use now, im not gonna buy products, especially considering the men at arms fiasco before we can see them, i hate having to rely on someone revewing them rather than the company saying here look

If you haven't bought the products via the survey already, then why is there any rush when you're going to get proper studio images in the Mantic store when the preorder goes up, and, if you have already bought them via the survey, what's the rush when you've already bought and paid for them and will have them in hand within a fortnight?

double post

 mitch_rifle wrote:
Well whats the excuse then that they cant give them to use now, im not gonna buy products, especially considering the men at arms fiasco before we can see them, i hate having to rely on someone revewing them rather than the company saying here look

I already told you, they don't have the production ones in the warehouse yet, and before the first survey (I think it was this project) they copped more complaints for showing the proving photos from the factory rather than waiting and taking proper photos in the studio. Can't win sometimes.

Plus, the Enforcer ones haven't been approved yet, so they don't even have factory ones to show us, they said the last lot were sent back for further retooling which is why we get a 3rd wave in October.

NTRabbit wrote:

 mitch_rifle wrote:
Well whats the excuse then that they cant give them to use now, im not gonna buy products, especially considering the men at arms fiasco before we can see them, i hate having to rely on someone revewing them rather than the company saying here look

I already told you, they don't have the production ones in the warehouse yet, and before the first survey (I think it was this project) they copped more complaints for showing the proving photos from the factory rather than waiting and taking proper photos in the studio. Can't win sometimes.

Plus, the Enforcer ones haven't been approved yet, so they don't even have factory ones to show us, they said the last lot were sent back for further retooling which is why we get a 3rd wave in October.

I don't think I ever saw a negative comment about the early showings of the zombie test sprus so reference or your comment is just water-carrying.

test shots are not final production models,

they tend to be either stuck in the end of somebody else's run (so not using the perfect plastic mix for this precise sprue), or run 'cold' where the machines performance is not optional

they may well have more mould lines/flash as you only optimise mould fit when you know your're done cutting

they may have fill problems was channels/pressures etc need optimising too

you may need to make minor changes to the tool to refine the look of one part or another

and not matter how often a company says 'these are test shots, the final product will be better' the internet will ignore it and assume they are final (or cross post the images without the text)

so you don't (officially) show test shots. If shots come out of open days/conventions that's Ok and just part of building buzz in person

this is not to say I don't think mantic should have a more proactive approach to showing pictures of the stuff when it IS finalised

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
test shots are not final production models,

they tend to be either stuck in the end of somebody else's run (so not using the perfect plastic mix for this precise sprue), or run 'cold' where the machines performance is not optional

they may well have more mould lines/flash as you only optimise mould fit when you know your're done cutting

they may have fill problems was channels/pressures etc need optimising too

you may need to make minor changes to the tool to refine the look of one part or another

and not matter how often a company says 'these are test shots, the final product will be better' the internet will ignore it and assume they are final (or cross post the images without the text)

so you don't (officially) show test shots. If shots come out of open days/conventions that's Ok and just part of building buzz in person

this is not to say I don't think mantic should have a more proactive approach to showing pictures of the stuff when it IS finalised

So you're also going to ignore the fact that they trotted out the zombies well in advance of receiving them in the warehouse...ok.

 agnosto wrote:


I don't think I ever saw a negative comment about the early showings of the zombie test sprus so reference or your comment is just water-carrying.

It was back before the first survey, when people were clamouring for production shots of all the first wave stuff. I'm pretty sure it was this project, the only other project I backed just as long ago was Robotech and they've had massive delays. Complaints about photos taken with a camera phone, does that ring any bells with anyone else?

Yep I recall that because I directly asked James several times to post the production minis for wave 1 DZ which they had in hand and yet wouldn't put any pictures of out. It came to a head when people said they'd pull their Mars Attack pledges if we didn't see the DZ production shots only then did we start to get the pictures.

I'm not sure why there is all the secrecy somtimes about minis that are done and will be in peoples hands soon - show proper studio pictures show them in the best possible way rather than someones camera phone blurry shot which does the minis no good at all.

The massive difference though is that they are trying to sell the product before you see what it actually is, it really should not be that difficult to show people what their going to buy. Didnt they get like 1 million dollars, and they still cant at least show people whats going on

NTRabbit wrote:

 agnosto wrote:


I don't think I ever saw a negative comment about the early showings of the zombie test sprus so reference or your comment is just water-carrying.

It was back before the first survey, when people were clamouring for production shots of all the first wave stuff. I'm pretty sure it was this project, the only other project I backed just as long ago was Robotech and they've had massive delays. Complaints about photos taken with a camera phone, does that ring any bells with anyone else?

I recall that after KoW because people were assuming the problem was the quality of the pictures instead of the shoddy minis.

 mitch_rifle wrote:
The massive difference though is that they are trying to sell the product before you see what it actually is, it really should not be that difficult to show people what their going to buy. Didn't they get like 1 million dollars, and they still cant at least show people whats going on

This is called crowd-sourcing. You give money before models are made. There may be sculpts, but rarely are there production examples, especially not for anything later in the campaign. It's the inherent risk. I do agree that, at this point, we should have pictures, but if you have a problem with models sold sight unseen, then you won't like crowd-funding miniatures at all.

Maybe they'll have some stuff out at GenCon, I'd love to bring back pictures to share. Wonder if the venue would be ok with me having a tripod, usually take shoddy photos unless I can brace on something.

I have super sekret pictures of the Enforcer Sprues. Spoilers for size and sekresy



More seriously, this is why Mantic need to get their gak together. Back in KoW they shifted the troll concept from good looking to the garbage they they approved and evenually shipped and sent out to us. They also had the Elf and TK cavalry models in hand during the final survey, but refused to show pictures of them until afterwards. So I didn't buy any.

 Azazelx wrote:
I have super sekret pictures of the Enforcer Sprues. Spoilers for size and sekresy

There is a special circle of hell reserved for people like you.

Lord they are horrific, i dont understand how they havent managed to be able to get some decent plastic, other than the KOW stuff they released years ago. How do fireforge, gripping beast, the perrys and warlord can do it, and reasonably priced as well.

Whilst i understand it may be a risk for them to borrow some money and invest in some good sculptors and plastics, im afraid it's just never going to get out there. I want some awesome plastic alternatives for scifi but i dont think were gonna get them for some time

They changed plastic supplier from Renedra to a no-name Chinese one iirc?

Renedra had a massive queue of people waiting to get things produced because they're so good everyone wanted to use them, including all of Fireforge, Gripping Beast and the Perrys; Mantic couldn't wait, so went to China. At least that's how I recall it.

Considering it's the same factory that did the Men at Arms and the new Zombie sprues, I think we can say that the end result is at least improving.

Mantic aren't the only people to investigate other options than Renedra - Warlord's Auxilia sprue is noticeably different to their earlier Roman sprues, with much softer detail and a different, more glossy finish to the plastic. That was a few years ago now, whether their newer kits are using Renedra again I don't know.

Dunno if Victrix ever used Renedra, but I bought a box of one of their new Greek kits the other day and it doesn't have 'Renedra' stamped anywhere on the sprue (which Warlord's Romans do).

 Riquende wrote:
Mantic aren't the only people to investigate other options than Renedra - Warlord's Auxilia sprue is noticeably different to their earlier Roman sprues, with much softer detail and a different, more glossy finish to the plastic. That was a few years ago now, whether their newer kits are using Renedra again I don't know.

Dunno if Victrix ever used Renedra, but I bought a box of one of their new Greek kits the other day and it doesn't have 'Renedra' stamped anywhere on the sprue (which Warlord's Romans do).

Google threw up a result that had Victrix moving to a different UK supplier a few years ago, who also does the production for PSC,

Renedra is quality but small, it can't keep up with all the demand!

They also can't do digital sculpting/tooling.