Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

After a hiatus, latest attempt at a CSM list that is hopefully semi competitive. All I lack to field this is a third Heldrake, hopefully will fill in that hole soon.

HQ: 145 pts

Chaos Lord - 145 pts
Lightning Claw x2
Mark of Slaanesh
Sigil of Corruption
*Warlord

Troops: 625 pts

Noise Marines x9 +1 Champ (Dakka Squad) - 346 pts
Sonic Blasters x7
Blastmasters x2
Icon of Excess (FnP)
Champion w/ Power Sword and Melta Bombs
Rhino

Noise Marines x8 +1 Champ (Slasha Squad) - 279 pts
CCW x7
Blastmaster x1
Icon of Excess (FnP)
Champion w/ Power Sword, Melta Bombs and Doom Siren
Rhino w/ Dirge Caster

Fast Attack: 510 pts

Heldrake - 170 pts
Baleflamer

Heldrake - 170 pts
Baleflamer

Heldrake - 170 pts
Hades Autocannon

Heavy: 230 pts

Havocs x4 +1 Champ - 230 pts
Lascannons x4
Mark of Slaanesh
Icon of Excess (FnP)
Rhino

Plan on running Lord with the 9 man Noise Marine squad, Heldrakes tag teaming for vector striking/baleflaming/popping transports for 1-2 turns before leaving the table.

*edit*
Removed DP, switched 1 Heldrake to Hades Autocannon, and added Havocs w/ Lascannons

Overall I think it will be competitive however...

You're looking a little light on the first turn and possibly second and third if your opponent has a way of making the reserve role more difficult. Any shootyarmy will be able to pop the rhinos and have a real good go at the noise marines in the first turn.

If you're opponent brings terminators, mega nobz or another 2+ armour saves they only have to focus on the demon prince and then they have 5 - 10 awesome models which you can not touch.

Capturing or contesting objectives with so few units will be a problem. I'm not sure if flyers can contest? Presumably if you go second you could go and hover near an objective to contest it (I suppose jet bikes can contest), if yo go first then hovering will give any heavy weapons left on the other side a turn to blow it out of the air. Its the sort of army which needs to wipe the opponent off the board to win; I'm not sure it always will.

The Daemon Prince just seems like a point sink if you're just using him to Vector Strike things, especially at only Strength 6.

Maybe a bit more anti-tank/light transports? 2 Baleflamers should be all you need, maybe one of them can be a Hades Autocannon for Vector Striking transports/other fliers and then autocanonning the rear armor. Havocs or Obliterators with the mark of Slaanesh with Lascannons?

I don't have any Havocs, but can pretty easily grab some bits off ebay or elsewhere and assemble some. Had been considering them ever since the new Oblit rule of having to change weapon types every turn.

Updated the list to reflect ideas.

With 2+ hell drakes you need to be taking an aegis defence line with comms relay. Take either the daemon price or the lord. The lord seems like a better choice.

Replace all your troops with units of 5 noise marines + blastmaster in rhino. Stick them behind the aegis and you have a reasonably tanks back line which can drop some hurt on the enemies while you wait for your dragons to arrive. Then once the enemy starts crumbling you can drive what remains of your rhinos up the field to capture objectives.

Feel no pain isn't that great when you can have a rhino with dozer blade for the same cost (dozer blade so you can reliably drive over the the aegis without immobilizing yourself).

I'd maybe also take a squad of 10 regular csm with some plasma guns incase you end up fighting terminators. Give the lord a lightning claw + power fist instead of 2x claws so you still get the +1 attack but have the option of AP2 if you need it.

I think you needed to fiddle at the edges of the original list rather than re-write.

Most of the AV14 armour has weak sides and rear for heldrakes to vector strike or flame. The switch of one to a hades autocannon is a good idea. The demon prince can land and mash anything which is AV14 all around (or you could look to ignore it if possible).

The inclusion of the havocs in the revised list anchors your force as you will not be wanting to move these; and take away some of the overall speed it had,

Getting extra-troops is wtnid said; split some of the noise marines up and swich one out fro standard CSM. That's the sort of twiddling at the edges you want rather thana re-write.

I would consider splitting troops, dropping original ideas, and even completely changing a unit to a different kind more a re-write than what happened... All I did so far was drop the DP (which they are right, it's a huge point sink for what he can pull off), change one Heldrake, and add Havocs with Lascannons (which is actually pretty reliable for long range vehicle sniping).

What I'm saying is adding the havoc really alters the original dynamics and anchors part of your force. Without the havocs its much more flexible and mobile.

I see. Only reason I have reservations against splitting up my NM units is because I would have to drop Icon of Excess. Many argue that FnP isn't worth it, and that other upgrades are better in situations, but I find my rolls are terrible when it comes to saves, and that little boost of survive-ability really helps when I'm forced to use it.

I originally intended to not move the Dakka unit much, sit on an objective that is close to my table edge, and let them have to come to me, while the Slasha unit rides carefully near cover to set up for taking objectives and assaulting (Dirge Caster disallowing overwatch if the vehicle can get close enough). And of course, using the Heldrakes to fly around causing utter chaos.

Here is the logic behind each option (I'm going to add Oblits to the logic list as well, to be fair):

DP -
Pro: Powerful flying MC that has fleet, rending, and a boost in it's charge. Probably not quite as effective at cracking vehicles as it use to be, but definitely more mobile and more versatile.
Con: Huge points sink for a single model (costing more than the Heldrakes), With the latest FAQ on the shooting rules, is less survivable as a single model than units that have multiple models. Guaranteed to be a bullet magnet. Also no longer immune to instant death unless I get a lucky roll.

Havocs -
Pro: Can take 4 Lascannons, guaranteed FnP, and a transport all for effectively the same cost as a DP with wings and PA. With the new FAQ on shooting rules, is more survivable with 5 models (use Rhino as cover as needed). Reliable long range fire as long as I'm not moving the unit very much.
Con: Not very mobile unless I will be shooting Snapshot. Not Fearless, so easier to push off the board if things go badly.

Obliterators -
Pro: More wounds than either of the above 2 unit options with the most durable saves, although with the latest FAQ on shooting rules, may actually be less survive-able than the Havocs based on wound allocation. Can be used for effectively any job that requires a powerful gun. Can move and shoot without having to fire Snapshot. Can deepstrike. Also, cheapest option at a full 3 man unit.
Con: As stated, may have less durability due to wound allocation than the Havoc squad. Although slightly more mobile than the Havocs, not nearly as mobile as the DP. The range of weapons are not reliable: weapons in the unit must change every turn, so only Lascannon support every other turn, other turns targets may be far too far away to hit. No guaranteed FnP or immunity to Instant Death.

After thinking about all of this, I'm almost tempted to take my Oblits over the Havocs, although that would be one less vehicle to cause line of fire problems.

The way you have the havocs built, Nurgle Obliterators x3 would be a better fit at that points amount.

Would that be cheesy or fluffy in a Noise Marine army?

You don't have divination so I don't see any benifit to a squad of 9 noise marines.

Go to 3 squads at the perfect number...

6 4 or 5 Sonic Blasters and 1 Blastmaster in a Rhino.

Instead of doing 1 of 10 and 1 of 9, go to 3 squads of 6.
Same number of blastmasters and an extra rhino.

I know FNP banner is cute but with IC and sniper fire guess what people are going to pick for precision shots.

If you want to do rhino pillboxes, I would switch back to 10-man squads take 2 blastmasters and let the rest have extra CCW. You are going to be firing the two blastmasters out of the hardpoint and everyone else is going to sit.

3 Helldrakes may be a little too much and you can spend those points elsewhere. Lose 1 of them.

Havocs at 5-man is cheap but with a Icon, you have 5 high cost figs that you don't want to lose... Increase it to a 7 or 8 man squad. That way you have some expendable bolter guys instead of losing the banner or lascannon.
If you are going to go rhino bunker, mix your weapon loadouts. 2 Lascannon and 2 autocannon or 2 flakk missiles so you can pick and chose what you want to fire.

If you want speed, I would recommend a core of 2 noise marines of 10 and a CSM with MoS in another rhino. Spend the points on VotLW so you can dominate marines and get the extra Ld. Spend the points on extra CCW instead of sonic blasters... If you are going to rush, disembark, shoot and charge, the points on getting one shot of sonic blasters is not worth it.

Again if you are going to do a charge based army, get the doom sirens on all your champions.

To support a charge, I would really like something that can support your charge like a bike unit or raptors that can keep up with the rhinos and land a charge in on a nasty enemy firepower unit while your rhino-bound guys are dismounting.

Yea 3 hell turkeys is too much. I think the magic number is 2 each with bale-flamers. Use the points gained here to bring more scoring units. I will mirror what others have said and suggest taking units of 6, after all it is their magic number

Your havocs are a crazy build. You are better off buying 3 extra havocs (with bolters) who can soak up wounds at that point. +1 I is a waste, the rhino is random since only 2 can fire out of it (I assume you want to use it to block line of sight).

Go naked with your guys, just the basics. How many games is your foot slogging noise marine champion going to get to use his metlta bomb on a vehicle? and of those times how often would the 9 krak grenades have done the same job? Melta bombs is for bikes really. How about this:

HQ - 145
Lord, lightning claw, power fist, sigil of corruption, mos = 145 (not sure how your original post got to 145 with dual lightning claws)

Fortifications - 85
Aegis Defence line /w icarus las cannon - 85

Troops - 444
281 = Rhino + 7 nm with bolters + 1 champ + 2 blastmaster
163 = Rhino + 3 nm with bolters + 1 champ + 1 blastmaster

Dragons - 510

Heavy 310
155 = 5 havoks with lascannons
155 = 5 havoks with lascannons

= 1494 ( way more guys and way more dakka than your list)

Hm... I did say "semi-competitive". With that I'd like to keep the Icons if possible. However, after reading the comments above, how about:

HQ: 145 pts

Chaos Lord - 155
Lightning Claw
Powerfist
Sigil of Corruption
Gift of Mutation

Troop: 753 pts

Noise Marines - 251
5 NM +1 Champ
Blastmaster x1
CCW x4
Champ w/ Doom Siren, Power Sword, and Melta Bombs
Rhino w/ Dirge Caster

Noise Marines - 251
Ditto

Noise Marines - 251
Ditto

Fast Attack: 340 pts

Heldrake - 170
w/ Baleflamer

Heldrake - 170
w/ Baleflamer

Heavy: 228 pts

Obliterators - 228
x3 w/ Mark of Nurgle

Total: 1476 pts

Also, wtnind, you can only take 2 Blastmasters in a unit of 10+. Otherwise, it's 1 Blastmaster optional.

 zechariahsword wrote:

Also, wtnind, you can only take 2 Blastmasters in a unit of 10+. Otherwise, it's 1 Blastmaster optional.

+1 champ +2 blastmasters = +1 additional noise marine who is a champion +2 blast masters = two additional noise marines who are armed with blast masters.

wtnind wrote:

 zechariahsword wrote:

Also, wtnind, you can only take 2 Blastmasters in a unit of 10+. Otherwise, it's 1 Blastmaster optional.

+1 champ +2 blastmasters = +1 additional noise marine who is a champion +2 blast masters = two additional noise marines who are armed with blast masters.

Ah, misunderstood your post then. Thought you were saying only 7 models with 2 BMs. Makes more sense now.