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 ExNoctemNacimur wrote:
I'm not trying to sound "cool" at all. I personally really enjoyed reading it. Yes, it's badly written, but so are many other books - Twilight comes immediately to mind.

Hilarious Twilight comparison aside, this is a thread about good books, yet you concede that Mein Kampf is badly written. How then can you claim it as a 'good book'?

 Howard A Treesong wrote:
Heinlein is a bit of a troll, his books sway around between those that are quite liberal and others that are outright fascist or racist. The issue is that some people think they know Heinlein's politics because they're read Starship Troopers and think he's a fascist. If you want to try some of his lighter stuff, read Double Star or Door into Summer.

Mr Burning mentions Wasp by Eric Frank Russell, excellent short novel, good example of his humour in writing. Not sure if it's in print though.

I'll recommend Lord Kalvan of Otherwhen by H Beam Piper.

Its important to keep track of WHEN his works were written. Heinleins politics and beliefs evolved with time (like most peoples), though he never was actually a Fascist (close BUUUT his beliefs in individualism and self-determination kinda put a damper on it).

Surprised no one has yet mentioned Slaughterhouse Five, by Kurt Vonnegut. I would also recommend the collection of short stories, The Elephant Vanishes by Haruki Murakami, as well as the essay Existentialism is a Humanism by Jean-Paul Sartre. The best three books I read all last year.

Bran Dawri wrote:

 KalashnikovMarine wrote:
Negatives: Heinlein does go on some rants in this novel, however they're set up pretty well in Universe and well laid out in discourse between characters, it's not like you're getting an author monologue. Not enough action sadly.

Heinlein tends to do that in a lot of his novels; Stranger in a Strange Land somewhat suffers from it, too. Still, his writing (and his arguments) is/are intelligent enough, and he's pretty much mandatory reading for anyone who calls himself a science fiction afficionado. IMO, by far his best work are his short stories; they're nothing short of genius ("All you zombies" is the gold standard for time travel-plot twist short stories. The Moon is a Harsh Mistress is probably my favorite novel of his. Citizen of the Galaxy is a also quite a good read. Growing up, reading this one really hit home the evils of slavery.

He's one of the three grand masters of sci-fi! Of course he's mandatory reading. Asimov, Clarke and Heinlein.

 Howard A Treesong wrote:
Heinlein is a bit of a troll, his books sway around between those that are quite liberal and others that are outright fascist or racist. The issue is that some people think they know Heinlein's politics because they're read Starship Troopers and think he's a fascist. If you want to try some of his lighter stuff, read Double Star or Door into Summer.

I only ever got that vibe from the Paul Verhoven film of the same title, you know the guy who read a page of the book and did his own thing? If anything Heinlein was a Libertarian, and the only people seeing facism are the literary equivalent of the individuals who see illuminati codes in their oatmeal.

 rubiksnoob wrote:
Surprised no one has yet mentioned Slaughterhouse Five, by Kurt Vonnegut.

Seconded, with an added mention for Cat's Cradle.

Also it should be obvious, but if you haven't read Fight Club you need to correct yourself asap.

I also like Pier Anthony Incarnations of Immortality series:
1 On a Pale Horse (1983)
2 Bearing an Hourglass (1984)
3 With a Tangled Skein (1985)
4 Wielding a Red Sword (1986)
5 Being a Green Mother (1987)
6 For Love of Evil (1988)
7 And Eternity (1990)
8 Under a Velvet Cloak (2007)



My Fav is "On a Pale Hours" and "For Love of Evil"... but, they're all good.

 Albatross wrote:

 ExNoctemNacimur wrote:
Seconding Mein Kampf. Even if you don't agree with Hitler (ie 99.99999% of us) it truly is a fascinating read.

See, I'm convinced that people only say things like that to sound cool. Mein Kampf is a fething dull, badly-written book. The prose is godawful, even allowing for the translation from German to English. Hitler was a notoriously bad writer, and his skill wasn't in ideas, but presentation, which is why he was more famous for being a demagogue, as opposed to a political theorist.

I can't imagine reading it cover to cover, he needed a better editor. I've dipped into it to read his views on this and that, but he doesn't half ramble on.

Albatross wrote:

 ExNoctemNacimur wrote:
Seconding Mein Kampf. Even if you don't agree with Hitler (ie 99.99999% of us) it truly is a fascinating read.

See, I'm convinced that people only say things like that to sound cool. Mein Kampf is a fething dull, badly-written book. The prose is godawful, even allowing for the translation from German to English. Hitler was a notoriously bad writer, and his skill wasn't in ideas, but presentation, which is why he was more famous for being a demagogue, as opposed to a political theorist.

Uh-oh. This is the second time that Albatross and I have agreed on something. Once more and I'm pretty sure something eldritch and terrible awakens.

Which one are you again?

 Albatross wrote:

 ExNoctemNacimur wrote:
Seconding Mein Kampf. Even if you don't agree with Hitler (ie 99.99999% of us) it truly is a fascinating read.

See, I'm convinced that people only say things like that to sound cool. Mein Kampf is a fething dull, badly-written book. The prose is godawful, even allowing for the translation from German to English. Hitler was a notoriously bad writer, and his skill wasn't in ideas, but presentation, which is why he was more famous for being a demagogue, as opposed to a political theorist.

Agreed. Mein Kampf is the sort of thing you read due to its historical significance, not its literary or intellectual merit.

In that way its very much like Kant.

I Kant believe you said that.

 Albatross wrote:
I Kant believe you said that.

I Kan; he was such a K- idiot.

Anywho, I think Terry Goodkind's 'The Sword of Truth' series is pretty good, as well as David Eddings' 'The Belgariad' and 'The Malloreon' (although I haven't yet read 'The Elenium' or 'The Tamuli', but those two take place in a different universe) series. I also have to make the obligatory 'Discworld' recommendation.

I find it quite difficult to explain why I like or dislike things, and since 'I just do' is generally frowned upon, I can't really give any reasons why you should read them except ones you probably already know. I will say that David Eddings' books do contain quite a lot of well-integrated humour that you really wouldn't expect from fantasy novels, so it can be quite surprising.

Helsreach by Aaron Dembski-Bowden

The Druid series by Kevin Hearne

Dragons of Autumn Twilight, Dragons of Winter Night, and Dragons of Spring Dawning by Weis and Hickman

 dogma wrote:

 Albatross wrote:

 ExNoctemNacimur wrote:
Seconding Mein Kampf. Even if you don't agree with Hitler (ie 99.99999% of us) it truly is a fascinating read.

See, I'm convinced that people only say things like that to sound cool. Mein Kampf is a fething dull, badly-written book. The prose is godawful, even allowing for the translation from German to English. Hitler was a notoriously bad writer, and his skill wasn't in ideas, but presentation, which is why he was more famous for being a demagogue, as opposed to a political theorist.

Agreed. Mein Kampf is the sort of thing you read due to its historical significance, not its literary or intellectual merit.

In that way its very much like Kant.

It may be difficult to read, but it's not so bad if you have a manual.

Surprised that this wasn't posted after two pages.

I don't normally like reading books in a science fiction setting either, but hot damn was dune a good read.

The Sherlock Holmes series - I've got the whole thing in a convenient 2 book set from Bantam.

 dogma wrote:

 Kovnik Obama wrote:

Kissinger's Diplomacy - Huge, but captivating.

Similar tails were told of LBJ.

But in all seriousness, Diplomacy is a great book. It is simultaneously a lesson in history and diplomacy from a critical figure in both.

Acronyms being a weakness - what's LBJ? Google tells me Lyndon B Johnson...

 Albatross wrote:

 ExNoctemNacimur wrote:
I'm not trying to sound "cool" at all. I personally really enjoyed reading it. Yes, it's badly written, but so are many other books - Twilight comes immediately to mind.

Hilarious Twilight comparison aside, this is a thread about good books, yet you concede that Mein Kampf is badly written. How then can you claim it as a 'good book'?

It's interesting. A lot of my favourite history books are appallingly written but they're interesting.

To throw some of my favorites into the mix here:


Philip K. Dick's "Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep"

Finding an unabridged version, or non-movie tie in version is becoming increasingly difficult, but if you do, I thought it a brilliant read. He also wrote "Scanner Darkly" and Total Recall (though I havent read Recall, Im working on Scanner)

Btw, Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep is the novel that inspired, and eventually became Blade Runner.


Also enjoy Fight Club immensely. I'll actually read it about 1-2 times per year, and have been forced to buy 3 or 4 copies of it, due to wear and tear, or people borrowing for extended periods (as in never bringing it back)


There's some more I want to put here, but I'm a tad bit knackered, and Im gonna get some sleep.

30 pages of sex huh? Is it an act over the course of a day and a half, or is he the original 50 shades of grey?

I'm going to suggest the Leviathan trilogy by Scott Westerfield. It's not as fancy or complex as some of the other books in this thread, but it's a fun steampunk retelling of WWI that I enjoyed quite a bit.

 DemetriDominov wrote:
30 pages of sex huh? Is it an act over the course of a day and a half, or is he the original 50 shades of grey?

Its over the course of 1 week in Old Mans War.....
Its quite funny actually. Its comedic to the very best.

 Kovnik Obama wrote:

Acronyms being a weakness - what's LBJ? Google tells me Lyndon B Johnson...

Yep.

This is a good primer.

The Crimson Shadow Trilogy by R.A. Salvatore is a fun fantasy romp.

 KalashnikovMarine wrote:
The Crimson Shadow Trilogy by R.A. Salvatore is a fun fantasy romp.

That's a good one...

Also the Twilight Wars .

I back up Starship Troopers and Stranger in a Strange Land. Both are sci-fi must reads.

Ender's Game

Really loved this book (and it should have been mentioned by now ), and its my favorite book from Orson Scott Card. Great psychological tale with some fun twists you may or may not see coming. I used to be able to talk out a thesis paper worth of content on its themes, but for the life of me I can't even remember them. I'll have to read it again XD

Other Favs:

Chronicles of Narnia (That other classic fantasy series that never gets as much love as Lord of the Rings)
A Wrinkle in Time
The Black Company


For lighter fiction, I will admit to being a big fan of the Percy Jackson series of books (of course I also admit to being an unapologetic fan of pulp XD). They're not high literature or anything but they're a wonderful sit down, lay back, and enjoy the story, kind of book series that is competently written with loveable characters and great suspense.

I also admit to being a fan of Kelly Armstrong's Women of the Otherworld. Yes. They're chick novels. I still don't care. The woman can write a damned good book.

In Non-Fiction

Fighting Ships of the Rising Sun: The Drama of the Imperial Japanese Navy 1895-1945 (Stephen Howarth)
Hitler's Panzers: The Lightning Attacks that Revolutionized Warfare (Denis Showalter)
Carrying War to the Enemy: American Operational Art to 1945 (Michael Matheny)
Faint Praise: American Tank and Tank Destroyers in WWII (Charles Baily)
Triumph Forsaken: The Vietnam War 1954-1965 (Mark Moyar)

Albatross wrote:Which one are you again?

I'm the one that thinks the Beatles might just be the most over-rated band in music history.

 azazel the cat wrote:

Albatross wrote:Which one are you again?

I'm the one that thinks the Beatles might just be the most over-rated band in music history.

Oh yes, the heretic. Sister Katarina, the heavy flamer if you'd please.

 sarpedons-right-hand wrote:

'The Mars Trilogy' by Kim Stanley Robinson. Riveting books, but can be VERY slow going.

I second this; quite slow and not alot of action, but absolutely fascinating!

I've also been reading some of GW's Necromunda books recently, and Junktion by Matthew Farrer is great! Far better than I would have expected from Black Library.

IT - Stephen King
What age should read it? I read it at 14. Scared myself with it... I think it's likely to be more powerful at that age

Why do I like? Because I scared myself with it. And there are some very good points throughout the book on more diverse subjects - a lot of the book is set in the 50's and a fair amount is made of the different attitudes and opinions, and how they've changed over the last 35 years.(it's set in1986)

Bad things about the book?
Takes a while to get going. The ending sucks. But the middle of the book is one of the the best things he's ever written.

The Green Mile
What age? I'd say mid teen again.

Why do I like it?
On of the best pieces of storytelling I've ever read.

Bad things about the book?
I honestly can't think of any. Seriously, I enjoyed it that much.

I've seen Pratchett's name has already appeared on this thread - People should read the discorld series. I won't list them, just join in recommending them. Although I will say - if you're reading Macbeth, read wyrd sisters. It's an exceptional parody.

The Wasp Factory - Iain Banks

What age? again, I read it at about 14. I'd recommend being older than that - it's just a tad gruesome in places...

Why do I like it?
It's twisted, weird and sadistic - it's also a very good story, with a very good twist (dénouement - the main word I remember from reviewing books at school )

Bad things about it?

Just gruesome in places. Really gruesome.

 azazel the cat wrote:

Albatross wrote:Which one are you again?

I'm the one that thinks the Beatles might just be the most over-rated band in music history.

You have my attention, if not my sympathy.