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 Zakiriel wrote:
Hopefully Gen. Mattis isn't done yet. But on a related topic, is Stephen "Godfather" Ferrando still in service or did he retire?

He was promoted to COL in 2006...
That's about all I know.

Anyone know if Ferrando really is as big a jagoff as he came off as being in Generation Kill?

 Mannahnin wrote:
Anyone know if Ferrando really is as big a jagoff as he came off as being in Generation Kill?

Chance Kelly, the actor who plays him in the series, seems to have a lot of respect for him and was concerned about the portrayal of Ferrando in the series.

There's an interview where he talks about it here.


Also, having read the book, I thought Wright's portrayal of him was pretty neutral. The portrayal in the series leans a bit more towards the negative. I didn't get the impression he was a "big jagoff" in the series though.

There's a video of the real Ferrando here. He drops the F-bomb in it, just so you know. Kelly is definitely a talented actor, he totally nailed Ferrando's voice.

From what I understand the enlisted men had issues with the Godfather in theater because of his strict adherence to the grooming standard and the like, some questionable tactical decisions and a seeming desire to get 1st Recon shot at a lot. That said the same sourcing on that (One Bullet Away and GK interviews with the original Marines) says that post invasion when the bigger picture became clear to the guys at the bottom seemingly incomprehensible decisions became clearer.

The interesting perspective on Captain American and Encino Man is that they like all the company level officers and higher in Recon were intell weenies. 1st Recon was used in an entirely different manner then it's suppose to be, more like a LAR (Light Armored Recon) or more disturbingly an assault ready infantry line company. The way Force Recon actually operates is in small teams with experienced and highly competent NCOs and SNCOs leading the charge, the officers pass intell to and from the units to higher up in the command structure the Recon unit (the battalion in this case) is attached to. So those officers sucked at field command because they'd never done it before or they had but it was far enough back in their careers they'd pretty much spaced it by this point.

So Generation Kill is an excellent example of why you don't use a stiletto as a broadsword.

Nate Fick despite being a quitter did at least one good thing when he publicly took a literary swing at Tony Swofford. I haven't read one bullet away but I've been meaning to.

I didn't get the impression Ferrando was portrayed negatively in GK, but maybe that's because I'm used to some of the proclivities of officers at his level. The problem with books/shows like GK is you only see the grandstanding and not the deliberations, intelligence, and advise that lead to it. Anyone who thinks Ferrando was gleeful about his BN being used and abused the way it was probably doesn't know much about what it takes just to be selected as a line infantry battalion commander; let alone 1 Recon.

One Bullet Away is an excellent book. I found it very inspiring and it's definitely worth reading.

Nate Fick explains his reasons for leaving the Corps in the book, and I definitely wouldn't consider him a "quitter."


That's also a good point about GK. I think Evan Wright himself has even said that GK is supposed to show a "lance corporal's view" of the invasion. While it seems to do a pretty good job of that, it also lacks a perspective on a lot of the big picture stuff. Basically, like you said: only the grandstanding and not the deliberations, intelligence, and advice.

He's a civilian that used to be a Marine, which is pretty much two strikes.

 AustonT wrote:
He's a civilian that used to be a Marine, which is pretty much two strikes.

Hey, you know what they say, once a Marine always a Marine.


But judging by your last post I'm guessing you'd probably consider that an irreparable character flaw.



Do read the book though, if you have the opportunity.

That's because it is. In the words of the immortal Kirk Lazarus: never go full Marine.
Plus that once a marine always a marine bs is just that. Look at Swofford, point: proven.
And I call everyone who gets out after thier first term a quitter.

Even Navy? C'mon, the guys who discover that Surface Warfare Officer isn't exactly Top Gun should be forgiven.

 AustonT wrote:
I didn't get the impression Ferrando was portrayed negatively in GK

I didn't get that impression either.

 Seaward wrote:
Even Navy? C'mon, the guys who discover that Surface Warfare Officer isn't exactly Top Gun should be forgiven.

SWO is far more a demanding job than being a flyboy. Way more respect for them than the aviators, at least they don't pretend to be something that they aren't (a competent Airwar branch).

 AustonT wrote:
That's because it is. In the words of the immortal Kirk Lazarus: never go full Marine.

Haters gonna hate.

I totally get it though. Jealousy is a stinky perfume.

chaos0xomega wrote:

 Seaward wrote:
Even Navy? C'mon, the guys who discover that Surface Warfare Officer isn't exactly Top Gun should be forgiven.

SWO is far more a demanding job than being a flyboy. Way more respect for them than the aviators, at least they don't pretend to be something that they aren't (a competent Airwar branch).

Not that I know the figures offhand but I'm pretty sure fatalities amongst the AV guys is higher than SWO at any OPTEMPO below active global warfare. As far as being competent, the Blake there lies in the procurement and training strategies employed by the USN at levels well past the simple SW vs AV level. Also known as Admiral level bungling for decades on end.

And no Seaward no free pass for you, because vacant any other concerns: Navy. Floating in boats doing God knows what to goats...

I was referring to actual duties, I know a few SWOs, they average 3-4 hrs of sleep a night if theyre lucky, and so on and so forth, plus the responsibilities of dealing with the "children" they are responsible for. Aviator friends? 8 hrs of sleep a night, additional responsibilities on ship? Minimal. Need to herd enlisted subordinates? Nope...

They might have higher casualty rates in general, though I cant imagine that being the case recently aside from the occasional accident.

 KalashnikovMarine wrote:
From what I understand the enlisted men had issues with the Godfather in theater because of his strict adherence to the grooming standard and the like, some questionable tactical decisions and a seeming desire to get 1st Recon shot at a lot. That said the same sourcing on that (One Bullet Away and GK interviews with the original Marines) says that post invasion when the bigger picture became clear to the guys at the bottom seemingly incomprehensible decisions became clearer.

Largely this. I still haven't read Wright's book or Fick's book; I'm really going off of the HBO series. I thought that they did a great job in the episode where the kid gets shot and the guys want him medevaced of showing how Ferrando really was acting with information the guys in the unit did not have, and that the situation was genuinely more complicated than him being a dill weed backing incompetent officers at the expense of innocent lives.

That being said, as shown in the series, he displays a consistent habit of throwing his men into situations which are better-suited for line of battle units, not for Recon dudes in un- or lightly-armored humvees. The mission to race to and capture the airfield, for example, comes off as pure glory-seeking at the risk of his men's lives. And he does stuff like this repeatedly. It's one of the central ongoing themes of the series. Then the scene at the end, his last conversation with Wright, where he says sending the guys into danger was difficult, and makes this totally fake "confession" of being excited by the danger and that he's "struggling with that". He comes off as completely insincere and self-serving, attempting to justify his reckless behavior and pretend that it wasn't nearly as reckless as it was, to make himself look better in print.

 KalashnikovMarine wrote:
The interesting perspective on Captain American and Encino Man is that they like all the company level officers and higher in Recon were intell weenies. 1st Recon was used in an entirely different manner then it's suppose to be, more like a LAR (Light Armored Recon) or more disturbingly an assault ready infantry line company. The way Force Recon actually operates is in small teams with experienced and highly competent NCOs and SNCOs leading the charge, the officers pass intell to and from the units to higher up in the command structure the Recon unit (the battalion in this case) is attached to. So those officers sucked at field command because they'd never done it before or they had but it was far enough back in their careers they'd pretty much spaced it by this point.

That's good info, thanks. Still hard to justify a lot of the the stupid gak they're shown doing.

 KalashnikovMarine wrote:
So Generation Kill is an excellent example of why you don't use a stiletto as a broadsword.

That's one of the messages I got, certainly.

A lot of the "ground level" literature coming out of the Iraq War is an excellent example of why you don't use a stiletto when occupying a country of 25 million people. General Shinseki was right.

Yes Good info there and it makes a lot more sense to me why encino man and some others seemed so green at what they were doing.

BTW if you haven't seen the round table interview with the author of GK and some of the actual marines its here on youtube.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CZvWl67Icn8

 AustonT wrote:
Nate Fick despite being a quitter did at least one good thing when he publicly took a literary swing at Tony Swofford. I haven't read one bullet away but I've been meaning to.

One Bullet Away is a pretty good read. I can pass on my copy if anyone is interested.

chaos0xomega wrote:
Civilian control of the military doesnt mean that civilians make strategic decisions, it means military leaders are answerable to.civilians and subject to civilian oversight.

It does actually. Thats the fething point.


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 djones520 wrote:
Our Pres certainly hasn't done a lot to endear himself to his troops. This isn't going to help.

If they didn't vote him he doesn't give a gak. Thats what being a politician is all about.