Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Alrighty, well at my local store that I play at I have been having some good results with guard and space wolves allied as I normally play gunline style guard. But any time I play pure guard I can never manage to win. There is another guy that also plays Mech and he doesnt have much better luck than I do. One of my common opponents suggested trying a mix which would be a hybrid. (I usually believe in the full footguard or full mech approach) But am thinking about actually trying a hybrid list, I just dont like the idea of not spamming multiples of a unit to overwhelm my opponent.

Space wolves and Guard is fun and fluffy but I dont want to give up on my guard just yet.

So my question is where do I start? Ive got plenty of LRBT's that I could use for support and a manticore at my disposal. Also have 2 vendettas that I would have for anti air and anti armor.

But I am slightly lost on what I should do with my hq and my troops, not sure where to start with them? I got plenty of guardsmen for most rolls. Plenty of HW's and SW's to do whatever.

At this shop we normally play around 2k pts, usually being the minimum.

Comments are much appreciated!

In terms of pure power mechvet is better than foot guard by a long stretch, doesn't mean that pure foot is unplayable though. What's your typical foot list?

I've been trying a mech'd up Al'Rahem platoon with my "foot IG" list for tournaments as a way to speed up the games. Although this really makes the list a hybrid, the only reason I've gotten away with it is because I have time to wreck enemy AT before Al'Rahem and his boys show up. For the first turn or two, it's just a normal foot guard list, just with a bit less on the table. If you have a small number of chimeras, give it a try. At the very least it's quite a bit of fun, and nobody expects an entire mechanized platoon to appear in their deployment.

Also, russes usually work well with foot guard, since their armor is heavy enough that they shrug off all but the heaviest anti tank weapons. Most of your enemy's anti tank (missile launchers, autocannons, multilasers, lootas,etc.) have no good targets, which is what you want. If it's not a russ though, it better be flying or hidden out of sight until the coast is clear.

I ran hybrid guard at the start of 6th and found it really hard to play. I've since gone back to full mech and I'm finding it a lot of fun. It plays slightly different than it did in fifth. Just try and keep some range with the vets and hug cover on the advance and you will do fine. Mech guard does its fighting now from 24" not 6" like in 5th.

Good luck and have some fun

I really don't see how moving to a hybrid list is supposed to help you.

 Peregrine wrote:
I really don't see how moving to a hybrid list is supposed to help you.

Honesty I dont either but I've been playing foot guard since this edition has come out and it wasnt until I added space wolves that I saw success. I also would need atleast 4 more chimeras to do a full mech list. But I look at the other player that has a solid mech list and I just dont see how he doesnt win and its made me question spending the money on the extra chimeras because if they dont help me win theirs no point to them.

Generally my foot list was 2-3 LRBT's if 2 their was a manticore. 2 vendettas, Then 2 platoons. One lascannon platoon, one autocannon platoon and they had mix of melta and plasma SW's. I used an aegis for cover and quad gun for airsupport. This is just an Idea of what I run but I have work in a very short time so Im limited to posting a list at the moment.

My general opponent is chaos marines. Sometimes with daemon allies. Usually up agaisnt this guy that can use 4 powers a turn or something like that, think hes Arhiman? Then at my store theirs another list thats so far unbeatable which is a dark eldar army that full of witches and lilith in raiders and venoms and all their pirate looking ships. Basically turn 2 they are in your face and unless you pop enough of them then its game over because then too many of them are in assault and its just bad news, especially if night fight is turn 1(really bad times).

Hope this info helps as well.

Do you run your platoons as MSU or blobs? Me, I'd keep them in smaller units or smaller blobs, add another CCS and you should still be covered order-wise.. Lascannons have been advocated as the bees knees of the dogs bollocks against most opponents so it might be worth exploring going all LC, at least against Chaos. I don't play against DE but they seem to have a lot of low AV vehicles so there it might be beneficial too keep some ACs around.

Personally I wouldn't put PG and MG in ordinary IS but leave them to a couple of squads of veterans instead...

Do you meet a lot of AV13-14? If not it might it might help to move off manticores to something with AP3 or AP2 to improve MEQ/TEQ-killing, I like basilisks for artillery as they gives you Str9 and AP3, others here don't. Also, do you use standard LRMBT or variants?

If i play against chaos sometimes theres i land raider but usually rhinos but usually av12.

I usually run my infantry squads as msu.

And yes i use the barebones LRBT.

I've found that the executioner is pretty nice and ive thought about trying the exterminator with lascannon and MM sponsons.

 tankboy145 wrote:
If i play against chaos sometimes theres i land raider but usually rhinos but usually av12.

I usually run my infantry squads as msu.

And yes i use the barebones LRBT.

I've found that the executioner is pretty nice and ive thought about trying the exterminator with lascannon and MM sponsons.

Ok, so if you stock up on LC you could delegate any anti AV14 to them and some meltavets and move to an artillery platform thats Ap2/3. That would help in killing MEQ and Str9 ordnance is still good.

I like the executioner too, but it's a bit rich for my blood points wise. Exterminators are nice too as bolter boats but mostly to deal with hordes. I used to run a FW armored battlegroup as allies (giving them the opportunity to buy veteran abilities), using the exterminator as CCS that would give it BS 4 with +1 on all armor penetration rolls from the tank hunters (or whatever the name was) ability. That could be a way to go as well.

The Hybrid is better thought of in two sections. Your fire-support (gun-line) and your assault section (Mech) You gain the effectiveness of gun-line with the speed of mech but both in half measures. It's good to have a clear understanding of both and then learn to work them together. Hybrid lists should still have redundancy. Because you don't have as many points to spend on your gun-line you'll find you lean towards more multi-purpose units such as the LRBT as opposed to something with a more niche role like the Vanquisher. Another way to do this is to split the jobs between the mech and the gun-line. For example, mechvets deal with the high AV threats and the gun-line concentrates on the lower ones. It's all about finding what works for you.

So a general list I run would be:

2000pts

HQ
CCS 85pts
Lascannon
Regimental standard

Elites
storm troopers 105pts
x2 melta guns

storm troopers 105pts
x2 melta guns

Marbo 65pts

Troops

x2 PCS 80pts
x2 Autocannon

x3 infantry squads 210pts (not blobbed)
x3 lascannnons

x4 infantry squads 240pts (not blobbed)
x4 autocannons

Fast attack
x2 vendettas 260pts (not squaded)

Heavy support
x2 LRBT's 300pts

x1 LRBT 150pts

x1 Manticore 190pts
camo netting

Fortification
Aegis defense line 100pts
Quad

105pts left and thats my average gunline. Only problem I run into is always putting pressure on my opponent. I always get cornered in my line and and usually fighting to defend my own objectives but thats just what a gunline list does. Any suggestions on how to fix this list or make it into a hybrid?

 tankboy145 wrote:
So a general list I run would be:

2000pts

HQ
CCS 85pts
Lascannon
Regimental standard

Elites
storm troopers 105pts
x2 melta guns

storm troopers 105pts
x2 melta guns

Marbo 65pts

Troops

x2 PCS 80pts
x2 Autocannon

x3 infantry squads 210pts (not blobbed)
x3 lascannnons

x4 infantry squads 240pts (not blobbed)
x4 autocannons

Fast attack
x2 vendettas 260pts (not squaded)

Heavy support
x2 LRBT's 300pts

x1 LRBT 150pts

x1 Manticore 190pts
camo netting

Fortification
Aegis defense line 100pts
Quad

105pts left and thats my average gunline. Only problem I run into is always putting pressure on my opponent. I always get cornered in my line and and usually fighting to defend my own objectives but thats just what a gunline list does. Any suggestions on how to fix this list or make it into a hybrid?

Ok, so this is what I would try (of the top of my head):

Lose the stormtroopers and use the points to invest in two veteran squads with melta, you can get three melta or two plasma and the added benefit of counting as troops. You can put them in vendettas to drop in and put pressure on his backfield, infiltrate them, or put them in chimeras (although that makes them awfully big targets in this list).

I'd get one more IS with LC and split them 2 by 2 so you get 4 small blobs total, with an additional CCS you would get 4 orders per turn so you can give them BID or GBitF depending on situation. You could also move one while providing cover with the other.

Marbo is a bit of a sticky point, I'm still on the fence but if the points could be spent better somewhere else i wouldn't take him

Rather than a single manticore I'd go with two basilisks (squadroned) so you always get 2 ordnance barrage pie-plates that are AP3. Camo netting is a neat touch but it's fething epensive.. still could be worth it. Finally I'd replace one LRMBT with a Demolisher, shorter range but +2 Str and -1 Ap compared to the standard LR. Keeping the Demo close to your advancing troops to provide heavy fire support.

If you want to go even more mech you could start dumping IS for veterans in chimeras.

 tankboy145 wrote:
So a general list I run would be:

2000pts

HQ
CCS 85pts
Lascannon
Regimental standard

Elites
storm troopers 105pts
x2 melta guns

storm troopers 105pts
x2 melta guns

Marbo 65pts

Troops

x2 PCS 80pts
x2 Autocannon

x3 infantry squads 210pts (not blobbed)
x3 lascannnons

x4 infantry squads 240pts (not blobbed)
x4 autocannons

Fast attack
x2 vendettas 260pts (not squaded)

Heavy support
x2 LRBT's 300pts

x1 LRBT 150pts

x1 Manticore 190pts
camo netting

Fortification
Aegis defense line 100pts
Quad

105pts left and thats my average gunline. Only problem I run into is always putting pressure on my opponent. I always get cornered in my line and and usually fighting to defend my own objectives but thats just what a gunline list does. Any suggestions on how to fix this list or make it into a hybrid?

Swap Autocannons for Lascannons, blob your infantry, don't bother with Stormtroopers in a gunline (One Plasvet squad and a fireball PCS in a Vendetta work better for a gunline to add backfield scoring), and take a Rune Priest.

Ditch the LRBT's too, and add in Heavy Artillery Medusa Siege Carriages. Cheaper and more effective.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

tracer wrote:

Lose the stormtroopers and use the points to invest in two veteran squads with melta, you can get three melta or two plasma and the added benefit of counting as troops. You can put them in vendettas to drop in and put pressure on his backfield, infiltrate them, or put them in chimeras (although that makes them awfully big targets in this list).

Can't infiltrate Vets without Harker

Marbo is a bit of a sticky point, I'm still on the fence but if the points could be spent better somewhere else i wouldn't take him

Marbo is good for a gunline to provide backfield damage.

Rather than a single manticore I'd go with two basilisks (squadroned) so you always get 2 ordnance barrage pie-plates that are AP3. Camo netting is a neat touch but it's fething epensive.. still could be worth it. Finally I'd replace one LRMBT with a Demolisher, shorter range but +2 Str and -1 Ap compared to the standard LR. Keeping the Demo close to your advancing troops to provide heavy fire support.

Basilisks are awful. Camo netting is great, and Demolishers aren't worth it.

I wouldn't mind trying different artillery but the manticore is all I got. I can change different russes around as I have a lot. I would like to do medusas but I have none

I will switch the list up to include vets for the dettas and see what else I can do.

I will deffinitly add another CCS, Should it be the same as the first? Also should I include camo cloaks for the Hq CCS so they have more protection behind the line?

The only reason I included the stormies was for more accurate and more effective anti tank but the vets will be able to cover that.

Any other suggestion, I will post an updated list in a couple minutes.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
2000pts Imperial Guard

HQ
CCS 105pts (Warlord)
Regimental Standard
Lascannon
Camo Cloaks
Melta bombs

CCS 85pts
Lascannon
Regimental Standard

Elites
Marbo 65pts

Troops

PCS 40pts
Autocannon

PCS 50pts (Vendetta)
x4 flamers

x4 Infantry squads 280pts (2 blobs of 20)
x4 lascannons

x3 infantry squads 180pts (not blobbed)
x3 autocannnons

Veterans 100pts (in vendetta)
x3 melta guns

Veterans 170pts
x3 plasma guns
Harker

Fast attack
Vendetta 130pts

Vendetta 130pts

Heavy support
LRBT 150pts

LRBT 150pts

LRD 165pts

LRE 245pts
Lascannon
Plasma cannon sponsons

Fortification
Aegis Defense line 100pts
Quad gun

2k even, Comments?

 tankboy145 wrote:
I wouldn't mind trying different artillery but the manticore is all I got. I can change different russes around as I have a lot. I would like to do medusas but I have none

I will switch the list up to include vets for the dettas and see what else I can do.

I will deffinitly add another CCS, Should it be the same as the first? Also should I include camo cloaks for the Hq CCS so they have more protection behind the line?

The only reason I included the stormies was for more accurate and more effective anti tank but the vets will be able to cover that.

Any other suggestion, I will post an updated list in a couple minutes.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
2000pts Imperial Guard

HQ
CCS 105pts (Warlord)
Regimental Standard
Lascannon
Camo Cloaks

CCS 85pts
Lascannon
Regimental Standard

Elites
Marbo 65pts

Troops

x2 PCS 80pts
x2 Autocannons

x4 Infantry squads 280pts (2 blobs of 20)
x4 lascannons

x3 infantry squads 180pts (not blobbed)
x3 autocannnons

Veterans 100pts
x3 melta guns

Veterans 115pts
x3 plasma guns

Fast attack
Vendetta 130pts

Vendetta 130pts

Heavy support
LRBT 150pts

LRBT 150pts

LRD 165pts

LRE 245pts
Lascannon
Plasma cannon sponsons

Fortification
Aegis Defense line 100pts
Quad gun

70pts left and thats double FoC so theres more Heavy Support. I could add another lascannon infantry squad? suggestions?

Can't double-heavy weapons in a PCS. Give them 4 flamers, put them in one of the Vendettas, and use your spare points to buy the Plasmavets a Harker.

Its 1 heavy weapon for each PCS, theres 2 of them and so I've bought 2 autocannons, 1 for each.

 tankboy145 wrote:
Its 1 heavy weapon for each PCS, theres 2 of them and so I've bought 2 autocannons, 1 for each.

Ah; not sure how I missed that.

I'd still consider a harker for your plasvets, and 4x Flamer PCS in a vendetta. That'll do much more than one BS3 Autocannon, and the Harker Plasma is always great for splitting enemy forces in a gunline army.

I could upgrade 1 PCS to have x4 flamers in vendetta. Then with 60pts left give Harker to the Plasma Vets. Now I have 5pts left, Melta bombs for the Warlord CCS?

Last List updated above^^^

You should probably put 2 of those 5 points onto a bolter for the platoon commander, so you can allocate those flamer hits past 9".

The commanders already got a pistol at 12inches, if the flamers are barely hitting targets that close then they wont be creating many wounds, and once they are close enough to where their templates can hit a lot of targets that pistol should be in range of pretty much all of the enemies squad, not to worried about that.

What if your roasting orks or nids or some other hordy unit and the reach of the las pistol only covers 1/4 of the unit. The bolter is a really good idea it will mean if those flamers only reach 3-4 guys you can kill more and the more you kill the better chance your guys have of survival.

Also at 2k with double force org you can get a 2nd Agies and a 2nd Quad-gun. 2x Quad Guns can be pretty handy.

Yes thats true but remember these guys are grav chuting out of a vendetta. The flame template is what, like 6inches long. The pistol dude will be in base with all the guys when they drop down and will already have a much greater distance if the flamers even have something to hit. Not to mention if the flamers are going up against nids or orks my opponent would be stupid to bunch them up as you see my heavy support is loaded with large and small blast templates. If the squad isnt dead after they drop they will probably run for an objective and take cover. By turn 2 if that vendetta comes on his guys will probably have eaten some hefty templates and made him spread out.