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Deathwing and Ravenwing combined seems like a potent combination if done right, but the biggest question I have is which HQ should I use? Belial and Sammael? Just Azrael? Azrael and one of the others? Or even all three?

I've come up with two lists, one with Belial and Sammael, one with just Azrael. PLEASE help decide which one would work best, and/or which to change/dd to each list to make it better!

AZRAEL LIST

HQ

Azrael-215

Command Squad- 4 power weapons, apothecary, chapter banner - 220

TROOPS

Ravenwing Attack Squadron - 6 bikes, 2 plasmaguns, plasma pistol and power sword in sgt , Attack bike w/ multi-melta, Land Speeder w/ typhon missile launcher - 351

Ravenwing Attack Squadron - 6 bikes, 2 plasmaguns, plasma pistol and power sword in sgt , Attack bike w/ multi-melta, Land Speeder w/ typhon missile launcher - 351

Deathwing Terminator Squad- Cylone Missile Launcher, chainfist, 2 TH/SS (one on sgt) - 260

Deathwing Terminator Squad- Cylone Missile Launcher, chainfist, 2 TH/SS (one on sgt) - 260

Deathwing Terminator Squad- Cylone Missile Launcher, chainfist 2 TH/SS (one on sgt) - 260

FAST ATTACK

Ravenwing Darkshroud - 80

TOTAL = 1997




Belial/Sammael List:

[b]HQ[/b]

Belial- TH/SS - 190

Sammael - (Jetbike or Landspeeder: which to take?) - 200


TROOPS

Ravenwing Attack Squadron - 6 bikes, 2 plasmaguns, plasma pistol OR power sword in sgt (CANT DECIDE WHICH TO TAKE PLZ HELP), Attack bike w/ multi-melta, Land Speeder w/ typhon missile launcher - 336

Ravenwing Attack Squadron - 6 bikes, 2 plasmaguns, plasma pistol OR power sword in sgt (CANT DECIDE WHICH TO TAKE PLZ HELP), Attack bike w/ multi-melta, Land Speeder w/ typhon missile launcher - 336

Deathwing Terminator Squad- Cylone Missile Launcher, 2 TH/SS (one on sgt) - 255

Deathwing Terminator Squad- Cylone Missile Launcher, 1 TH/SS - 250

Deathwing Terminator Squad- Cylone Missile Launcher, 1 TH/SS - 250

FAST ATTACK

Nephilim Jetfighter - w/ TL Lascannon - 180

TOTAL = 1997


My Basic plan for both lists are simple: the bikes are combat squaded, both to get the maximum amount of fire/objectives and to increase the amount of teleport homers on the field. in the Azrael list the Darkshroud will always move flatout and will always stay as close to as many bike units as possible to boost their cover saves. In the Belial/Sammael List the Nephilim will be my anti-flier/ light vehicles. My Attack bikes are for AV 13/14, my Land Speeders are cyclone termies are for all other vehicles and fliers. The bikes are for anti-infantry and MEW/TEq with all the plasma they're bringing.


How do they look? Which List looks better?

For the Belial/Sammael list, I've thought about replacing the Nephilim with 2 Darkshrouds, but I'm worried about wasting too many points in what are essentially support units with little to no killing power...

Keep the Nephilim for Anti-Air

 Necronboy wrote:
Keep the Nephilim for Anti-Air

I'm just worried that by having only one flier my opponent will just focus fire on it for one turn and just bring it down. With the sheer amount of missiles the rest of my army is bringing it might even be redundant.

In list 1, that command squad is just gonna get left behind by your bikes and termies, get them in a pod.
Also, give them plasma or melta instead of powerswords, you have a bunch of termies, you dont need a 5 men PA CC squad. Chapter Banner wouldnt really be needed then.

35 guys and 3 AV10 seems very low at this point level.

 Jackster wrote:
In list 1, that command squad is just gonna get left behind by your bikes and termies, get them in a pod.
Also, give them plasma or melta instead of powerswords, you have a bunch of termies, you dont need a 5 men PA CC squad. Chapter Banner wouldnt really be needed then.

35 guys and 3 AV10 seems very low at this point level.

Yeah I'm having trouble deciding on the first list just where the hell to put Azrael, especially since as you said he can't keep up with bikes and I want all my termies taking advantage of the teleport homers. What if I stick him in a unit of Cyclone Termies that stays near the back, drop the command squad, and instead get 6 more bikes with 2 plasmaguns and plasma pistol/powersword on the sgt for 221 pts?

How about podding the Command Squad in? And give them the Devestation banner to buff all your bolters?

 Jackster wrote:
How about podding the Command Squad in? And give them the Devestation banner to buff all your bolters?

Will the banner effect the bikers' boltguns? I know that there is some debate about whether or not Hurricane Bolters count or not.

Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:

 Jackster wrote:
How about podding the Command Squad in? And give them the Devestation banner to buff all your bolters?

Will the banner effect the bikers' boltguns? I know that there is some debate about whether or not Hurricane Bolters count or not.

A twin-linked boltgun is a boltgun, it just has the twin linked special rule.
Nobody is quite sure whether the banner of dev refers to the basic boltguns or every single weapon that's under boltgun in the MRB (which goes from bolt pistols to vulcan mega bolters!) So I am not sure if storm bolters are affected or not.

If I'm gonna take the Banner of Devestation, I want it to be well protected. I'm think maybe I should give one maybe two command sqaud guys storm shields instead of power weapons, just in case (I know Azrael already gives them all a 4++, but from my personal experience 4++ is just barely reliable, only slightly better than a 5++)

As for my second list with belial and sammael, should I take the banner of devestation there too? if so, should I put it on a deathwing or ravenwing command squad?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Just realized something: Can the biker sgt take BOTH a plasma pistol and powersword or can he only take ONE? If he can only take one that means I have 30 extra points in my Azrael list!