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 Ailaros wrote:

Well that's not true. 195 points gives you something that can show up anywhere on the board and kill 6 marines on the drop in a single volley, regardless of displacement.

195pts. That's more expensive than a basilisk and marbo put together. The basilisk also starts firing on turn 1, the storm troopers don't. The basilisk and Marbo also can ignore cover if it's not area terrain. Something the hell-guns can't.
Marbo and the basilisk blast can also get to places that 10 storm troopers can't. If you can't shoot at it because you can't reach it, Marbo and indirect fire are far better options considering the footprint of 10 man storm trooper squad.

In return, they have carapace armor, so they don't care about the bolters that shoot back at them.

Oh come on. 4+ save is not that survivable. They sure do care about bolters; which hit and wound on 3+, plus if they're assaulted, their damage and survivability drops like a rock. Marbo is fairly decent in assault especially with challenges and hit 'n' run.

There's no way that marbo is doing that kind of damage against displacement (or any other large blast for that matter), and everything else is more likely to have to deal with cover saves. Or is just worse. I mean, really, melta vets? They're doing half as much damage as stormies, and that's even assuming no cover.

As before, Marbo can't be compared to 195pts of storm troopers. It's more like Marbo and a Basilisk, or Marbo and a Medusa. Far superior to storm troopers. The only bonus the storm troopers have in that respect is that they are denial, and more likely to survive than Marbo.
I suppose I should have mentioned melta vets with demolitions, which I rarely run melta-vets without. Over-sight on my part.

Jackster wrote:

Corollax wrote:
On the subject of the Leman Russ, what are your thoughts on Thunderers? You know, the little Demolisher Russ that could?

IG vindicator (But better, like most IG SM vehicle comparissons) and should be use like one.

I love my three Thunderers, use them as a squadron and they look a bit less gawky than a Demolisher, no loss of power or range over a Demolisher plus they hide a bit easier as they are that little bit lower!

Che-Vito wrote:
Don't use the Vindicator, use the Destroyer Tank Hunter.

S10 Ap2 Ordinance, Small Blast 72" (again, I may be out of date on IA...)
Last I checked, that's pretty awesome for 160 points.

Got one custom built from a Russ hull with a Vanquisher cannon where the hull weapon is and its quite an awesome little thing - its proved to be quite a tough thing to kill!

Basically, Thunderer = Vindicator wih much greater survivability, Destroyer = Find a place to park and bring death.

Destroyer feels like it has the same problem as the Vanquisher though, sure its awesome if you are poping land raiders, but otherwise it feels really expensive for one small blast every turn.
Then again I never used one, there might be some stuff I am missing.

My favorite S10 platform atm is the Medusa Heavy Artillery, cheap, quite durable and takes orders (Fire on my target or Bring it down with it is great!). Downside is no mobility whatsoever, but if you put it in a good position it can control a good part of the board with 36" range.

 Griddlelol wrote:

 Ailaros wrote:

In return, they have carapace armor, so they don't care about the bolters that shoot back at them.

Oh come on. 4+ save is not that survivable. They sure do care about bolters; which hit and wound on 3+, plus if they're assaulted, their damage and survivability drops like a rock. Marbo is fairly decent in assault especially with challenges and hit 'n' run.

Remind me to tell the Tau that their fire warriors are undercosted. If T3, Ld7(8) and 4+ armor are enough to protect our storm troopers at 16ppm, their fire warriors are [b]totally[b] safe at 10ppm.

Unless the rules in the updated IA1 have changed I thought the destroyer is only 10 points more than a plain-jane Russ?

Not really that expensive!

 Jackster wrote:
Destroyer feels like it has the same problem as the Vanquisher though, sure its awesome if you are poping land raiders, but otherwise it feels really expensive for one small blast every turn.
Then again I never used one, there might be some stuff I am missing.

My favorite S10 platform atm is the Medusa Heavy Artillery, cheap, quite durable and takes orders (Fire on my target or Bring it down with it is great!). Downside is no mobility whatsoever, but if you put it in a good position it can control a good part of the board with 36" range.

Oh crap, I never thought about that. You can't give an order to a Medusa from the codex (as it is mounted on a vehicle) but you CAN give orders to the stationary version FW sells.... dear sweet lord, what have I been doing with my life?

yea, the medusa arty is cheap enough that bastion breacher might actually be worth it.
105 pts for the best AT gun in the game afterall. S10 AP1 with Armourbane!
Then Bring it down to make it Twin Linked.

Hum, didnt realise they were cheaper as fixed arty!!

110 points for a Medusa with Bastion breachers? ohhh yes!

Excelent way of killing anything pretty much!

 Peregrine wrote:

 Lobukia wrote:
(does the brand new IA IG 2e have a new stat line for the Conqueror?)

Yes. The Conqueror was weak previously, and now it's useless garbage. I can't think of a single situation where you would ever willingly take one in a list.

New FAQ out. Conqueror back to S8 AP3, Blast, Heavy... Back to being relevant as a PA killer!

< Taken by the void dragon. >

I have to admit that there is one thing in Stormtroopers' favor that got overlooked. They're not competing for Force Org slots. The PBS got hurt by the changes to rallying, Marbo is Unique, and Ogryns remain a trash unit.

I'd still rather solve my problems with something that wounds on better than a 5+.