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I got a game this sunday again some Eldar in a lot of wave serpent

Here my 2 000 pts list of Iron Warriors

Warpsmith
Sorcerer lv 2 with mark of slaanesh

Chaos decimator
10 Chosen with 4 flamers mark of slaanesh
Helbrute (plasma cannon and missile laucncher)

10 csm with 2 plasma gun
10 csm with 2 plasma gun + rhino
10 csm with 2 melta gun + rhino
10 csm with plasma gun and heavy bolter

vindicator
Pred autocannon
Pred tw lasecannon.

The funny thing about eldar serpents is that they negate most of your generalist AT weapons. All serpents treat hits to the front and side armor as S8 max, and allow no extra dice from metla, ordenance,rending or whatever else. So lascannons, demolisher cannons and melta guns are just not that effective.
Plasma guns and autocannons can do the job, but they need 5's to glance and with the addition of jink, dont rely on them to do the job. S8 weapons are the best you can get, while S7 is fine if you can dakka it.

Eldar serpents all have twin linked S6(maybe S8 if they are taking missiles, or if your opponent is an idiot and putting bright lances on serpents) main guns. Often they have another S6 chin gun, so opening up your metal boxes is not a challenge(and they can get onto your side armor of your preds). Once you are on foot, the serpents will just kite around picking off units that get close. If they bring fire prisms or night spinners, look forward to tank killing/marine killing blasts, or rending S6 barrages that lock in you difficult and dangerous terrain.

I have no idea what a decimator is, so it might be some magical hard counter.

Also, bringing a sorcerer without a spell familiar is asking to die. Runes of warding means you better not even think about casting psychic powers while the farseer is alive.

Chosen with flamers is not too bad, if you catch the elves out in the open you will cook them. That said, eldar are not particularly hard to kill as you are looking at T3 models with a 5+ or 4+ armor save for most things.

A single land raider will probably fail hard, as they are likely bringing fire dragons. A whole unit armed with melta guns will pop out next to the raider, and slag it quick.

My opponent is not a idiot... is a guy who do a lot of competition, I will be just a practice for him but I know how he play.... He keep is Eldars in the wave serpent until is time to use them. I must force to "drop" his Eldar of the wave serpent in before turn 3 if I want to shot them down. But i didnt know that he treat all hits with str 8. I know I will use my 2 rhinos to ram his WS and hop for the best.

I must create a lot of mayhem with my tanks and dread if i want to keep the objectifs long enough for the victory points.

Forge fiend might be worth considering over Predator tanks in this case. They hit at Str 8, have 8 shots each fiend, plus they are AP 4 and pinning as well, so after you blow up the serpants with they forgefiend, you can go to town on his troops.

Good call on the forgefiend. The 5++ prevents casual glancing to death, and might save you from a dragon rush...that said, fragons will probably kill it.

Try not to present targets that foot troops will be needed against. Dire avengers are drawn to foot troops, fragons to tanks. Unless you pop the serpent, they won't be coming out till later in the game, so you HAVE to take the serpents out, no choice.Ramming is desperate and should only be done as a last resort. Hades seems to be your go to option here.

Good call for the forgefiend, I never thought of it. The Maulefiend is more my style of play. I will see after the game if I will add some in my army.

There are two units that I think are auto-include options for a chaos list and both would be very helpful to you.

Obliterators and heldrakes.

The obliterators can deep strike so you can get into the rear arc of his serpents and go to town with lascannons, multi-meltas and twin linked meltas.

The heldrakes can now vector strike his serpents (no jink save either since it ignores cover) and then if you fly directly over them, you can use the turret weapon to shoot into his rear end. This change makes the hades auto cannon worth taking as now you can put S8 shots on armor 10. The eldar also don't have any anti-air at the moment so he'll have a hard time taking down your drakes. Scatter laser walkers have enough shots to hit, but they'll need 6s to glance and you get a 5+ invulnerable and can regenerate hull points. So yeah, insane unit, but with how lousy the rest of the codex is, I don't feel bad for taking them.

Other observations. Your sorcerer is not likely to get any powers off and will suffer perils for any that don't go off thanks to runes, so leave him at home.

The warp smith has two wounds and isn't fearless. You can't affect fortifications with his shatter defenses and he can't deep strike with obliterators since he has no terminator armor. You're not even taking any vehicles for him to repair. So he's one of the most useless characters in the book. I understand that you're playing Iron Warriors, but there's no need to handicap yourself so much. Take a lord with terminator armor and a mark of tzeentch. That's only 15 points more to get fearless, an extra wound and a 2+ 4++. I'm trying to run mine with oblits to keep those guys alive a little longer.

Chosen offer you nothing that regular marines don't. Sure you can pack in 2 more flamers in the squad, but they're not fearless nor can they infiltrate or outflank. You can give a regular marine veterans of long war and a close combat weapon to approximate a chosen and he'll still be 2 points cheaper.

Finally, give all your troops rhinos. With wave serpents there is going to be a ton of S6 shots coming your way. You'll get your armor save, but your guys will still go down pretty quickly without protection of a tin box.

Are you sure the drake can fly over and shoot the same target? I can only see that happening when it is hovering not zooming which means the drake is treated as a hover vehicle and not a flyer. Enemies wont need skyfire. And the drake can only move 12" when hovering.

 Filch wrote:
Are you sure the drake can fly over and shoot the same target? I can only see that happening when it is hovering not zooming which means the drake is treated as a hover vehicle and not a flyer. Enemies wont need skyfire. And the drake can only move 12" when hovering.

To answer your question, you need only check the FAQ:
Q: How do I determine the Arc of Sight for a Heldrake’s ranged
weapon? (p52)
A: Treat the Heldrake’s ranged weapon as a Turret Mounted
Weapon, measuring all ranges from the edge of the Heldrake’s
base nearest to the target unit.


So yes, you can fly over a tank then shoot it in the back. If you read the last paragraph on pg. 80 of the BRB, it clearly states that flyers CAN shoot their weapons at full ballistic skill while zooming.

I play my game again the Eldars... He didn't kick my ass.... he burn it until nothing left of me...

We did a 1500 pts game. I had:

HQ : Chaos lord, power fist and combi-melta
Warpsmith

Elite: Hellbrute 2x ccw
Hellbrute plasma cannon, missile launcher
Chaos Decimator with butcher cannon

Troop : 10 CSM, 2 plasma gun, Rhino, Asp with power weapon
10 CSM, 2 melta gun, Rhino, Asp with plasma pistol, power fist

Heavy : Pred with auto cannon
Vindicator with siege shield
Havoc (5 men) 2 lase cannon and 2 plasma gun.

My oppoment got a Game Day level army (5 troops in waveserpents, one wraith something, a firestorm, warpspider, warphunter). I know how he played : keep everything in the waveserpents until is time to take the objectives.

Me, destroy the tanks as fast as possible (that didnt work) keep the objective (work for 3 turns) and give him hard time (that work).

The game was fun and my army did very well but I need to change my army for having more scoring unites but without loosing my fire power.

thank guys for the tips

 SkinCarver wrote:

 Filch wrote:
Are you sure the drake can fly over and shoot the same target? I can only see that happening when it is hovering not zooming which means the drake is treated as a hover vehicle and not a flyer. Enemies wont need skyfire. And the drake can only move 12" when hovering.

To answer your question, you need only check the FAQ:
Q: How do I determine the Arc of Sight for a Heldrake’s ranged
weapon? (p52)
A: Treat the Heldrake’s ranged weapon as a Turret Mounted
Weapon, measuring all ranges from the edge of the Heldrake’s
base nearest to the target unit.


So yes, you can fly over a tank then shoot it in the back. If you read the last paragraph on pg. 80 of the BRB, it clearly states that flyers CAN shoot their weapons at full ballistic skill while zooming.

Before the faq, I was told it can only shoot what was in its 180degree forward facing arc. So if the hades autocannon is a turret weapon does that mean the drake bends his head all the way down between his legs to shoot?

So does this mean I can shoot that bale flamer in any direction now?

Also I meant that enemies shooting at the drake do not need skyfire when the drake is hovering.