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I don't know how I have never read this before but yesterday I read something quite interesting,
It was a paragraph about the Outsider, this one...

"Since the the recent invasion of the galaxy by the Hive Fleets of the Tyranids, it has been speculated by some in the Inquisition that the Outsider is behind the Tyranids' arrival in the Milky Way.
He may be the driving force behind the unified Tyranid Hive Mind, as he seeks to destroy the galaxy's defenders with the living weapon that is the Tyranid species. If he is the Tyranids' ultimate master,
then there may be no stopping the Tyranids from consuming the Imperium of Man and all who would oppose the C'tan. The Necrons will fully awaken and shall once more harvest all life in the galaxy."

It seems to make perfect sense and kinda pulls everything together. I mean, Tyranids never really had a link to the rest of the races before.
I could find anything about this anywhere else lex didn't have anything about the outsider being the hive mind and I was just wondering what other people thought?

The full article on the outsider can be found here
http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Outsider

It's interesting but I believe the current Necron codex, if not invalidating it, makes it a bit more difficult as I believe the C'tan never devoured one another but instead were shattered and captured by the Necrons.

Also I believe the Silent King headed off into intergalactic space and on his travels encountered the Tyranid swarms and realised they were making a bee line for the Galaxy and if I'm not mistaken that is the reason he is now back and waking up Tomb Worlds. (And bro-fisting with Blood Angels)

There have been many ideas that the Outsider is linked to the Tyranids but it is not true. C'tan like the Outsider are unable to use psychic energy which the Tyranids use to a huge degree. The level of bio-engineering used by Tyranids is beyond that of the most advanced races in the galaxy including the Necrons. Such technology is too complex and highly developed for a C'tan to properly use, certainly not create.

The scale of the Tyranid threat is huge, the amount of raw materials needed to create the size of the Hive fleets nearinf the galaxy would require the Outsider having to find a huge mass of raw biological material from somewhere. It is also important to note that the Tyranids are far worse than a C'tan and the Hive mind far too powerful for any of them to control. This would indicate they don't obey any of them and if they were created by one they would eat it.

Never trust anything you read on the 40k wiki, it's very unreliable, Lexicanum is a better source.

 Voodoo_Chile wrote:
It's interesting but I believe the current Necron codex, if not invalidating it, makes it a bit more difficult as I believe the C'tan never devoured one another but instead were shattered and captured by the Necrons.

Also I believe the Silent King headed off into intergalactic space and on his travels encountered the Tyranid swarms and realised they were making a bee line for the Galaxy and if I'm not mistaken that is the reason he is now back and waking up Tomb Worlds. (And bro-fisting with Blood Angels)

I don't listen to the gak ward write's, ruined Necrons for me :/

 Voodoo_Chile wrote:
It's interesting but I believe the current Necron codex, if not invalidating it, makes it a bit more difficult as I believe the C'tan never devoured one another but instead were shattered and captured by the Necrons.

Also I believe the Silent King headed off into intergalactic space and on his travels encountered the Tyranid swarms and realised they were making a bee line for the Galaxy and if I'm not mistaken that is the reason he is now back and waking up Tomb Worlds. (And bro-fisting with Blood Angels)

They still ate eachother, and were weakened from the endeavor, enabling the Necrons to shatter them.

All of this fluff is obsolete. Outsider is a shard enslaved by some dynasty now.

 Leech wrote:
There have been many ideas that the Outsider is linked to the Tyranids but it is not true. C'tan like the Outsider are unable to use psychic energy which the Tyranids use to a huge degree. The level of bio-engineering used by Tyranids is beyond that of the most advanced races in the galaxy including the Necrons. Such technology is too complex and highly developed for a C'tan to properly use, certainly not create.

The scale of the Tyranid threat is huge, the amount of raw materials needed to create the size of the Hive fleets nearinf the galaxy would require the Outsider having to find a huge mass of raw biological material from somewhere. It is also important to note that the Tyranids are far worse than a C'tan and the Hive mind far too powerful for any of them to control. This would indicate they don't obey any of them and if they were created by one they would eat it.

Yeah no. The Tyranid bio-technology is not beyond a race who can create planet-sized vessels which can rewrite the fabric of history passively, convert an entire race into immortal metal shells, make a galactic light-bright that destroys stars, hell, even a basic Doomsday Cannon has enough energy inside to destroy a planet.

Also, call me when Tyranids eat stars, or can swallow entire star systems in black holes. There is not a single being in the materium that rivals the power of a C'tan, the mightiest Daemon or Tyranid creature would be as nothing to beings whom operate on a scale so large they didn't even notice planets existed.

That said no, the Outsider does not control the Tyranids.

 Leech wrote:
There have been many ideas that the Outsider is linked to the Tyranids but it is not true. C'tan like the Outsider are unable to use psychic energy which the Tyranids use to a huge degree. The level of bio-engineering used by Tyranids is beyond that of the most advanced races in the galaxy including the Necrons. Such technology is too complex and highly developed for a C'tan to properly use, certainly not create.

The scale of the Tyranid threat is huge, the amount of raw materials needed to create the size of the Hive fleets nearinf the galaxy would require the Outsider having to find a huge mass of raw biological material from somewhere. It is also important to note that the Tyranids are far worse than a C'tan and the Hive mind far too powerful for any of them to control. This would indicate they don't obey any of them and if they were created by one they would eat it.

<o.0>

The Tyranid don't use Psychic Powers in the way that other races use them, either. They're a non-Warp-capable race in much the same way the C'Tan are, but some are able to generate "psychic" effects by tapping the gestalt consciousness that is the total mind of the swarm, rather than channeling the energies of the Warp through their living bodies (which is why "Psychic" 'Nids don't suffer Perils). Also realize that, while bio-engineering on the level of the Tyranid may be beyond the capabilities of the Necrons, the C'Tan are several orders of magnitude beyond the Necron (having, basically, taught them everything they know). While the Necrontyr may not have been, or be currently able to, manufacture a Tyranid bio-form, there is nothing saying that a C'Tan would be likewise incapable.

Also... worse? Hmm... no. While Tyranids are bad, they have to stop at a planet to consume its biomass. A C'Tan? It just eats your local star and then buggers off, leaving your world to freeze solid in the all-consuming darkness of the void of space.

So what is the 'apparent' fluff regarding C'tan now? I sold my necrons when I found out ward wrote the book (I did buy codex and read some of it first, and was so disapointed).

 cheapbuster wrote:
So what is the 'apparent' fluff regarding C'tan now? I sold my necrons when I found out ward wrote the book (I did buy codex and read some of it first, and was so disapointed).

1. Necrons and C'tan destroyed Old Ones.

2. Necrons overthrow weakened C'tan and split them into controllable shards.

3. Necrons go into hibernation because even though the Old Ones are gone, their creations (Eldar) are on the ascension and they are too weak from their wars with the Old Ones and C'tan to fight them.

4. Silent King destroys command codes that allowed him to enslave Necron race (for some reason) and leaves the galaxy.

5. Does a quick 180 when he sees the Tyranids and comes back to awaken the Necron to fight them.

6. Since the CC were destroyed the Necron are no longer united under the Silent King and now consist of various Necron factions under the rule of various "Phaerons" who have somewhat unique personalities.

7. Gameplan for the Silent King is to reconquer all the factions and then bitchslap the Tyranids with gauss weapons before resuming complete command of the galaxy.

The new Necron fluff actually makes them an interesting army, rather than simply silent, killer robots from outer space. Some units actually have personalities which can be used for all sorts of fun times.

The new fluff makes them metal men with hurt feelings. They are now for all intents and purposes robo-Eldar.

 Psienesis wrote:
The new Necron fluff actually makes them an interesting army, rather than simply silent, killer robots from outer space. Some units actually have personalities which can be used for all sorts of fun times.

Necron Lords and certain units could have had personalities without destroying everything that made the Necrons menacing and interesting. Now they're just another annoyance on the Imperium's eastern fringe. Hell, the most powerful Necron dynasty is smaller then the tau empire....

 Void__Dragon wrote:
They are now for all intents and purposes robo-Eldar.

That is the first thing I thought when I read the new fluff.

 Harriticus wrote:

 Psienesis wrote:
The new Necron fluff actually makes them an interesting army, rather than simply silent, killer robots from outer space. Some units actually have personalities which can be used for all sorts of fun times.

Necron Lords and certain units could have had personalities without destroying everything that made the Necrons menacing and interesting. Now they're just another annoyance on the Imperium's eastern fringe. Hell, the most powerful Necron dynasty is smaller then the tau empire....

That's because they are so fething powerful. GW needed an excuse to justify why the Necron's didn't curbstomp everything.

The rewrite of the Necron codex took a massive poop all over the existing lore. Ward is the absolute worst writer on their staff and whoever GW Commisar in charge of his squad is should have put a bolt round in his skull long ago.

He all but ruined the GK, 100% completely did ruin the Necrons, and will undoubtably ruin whatever the hell he writes next.

The Necron codex is so full of .... nvm I'll just get carried away with that

Suffice it to say, the new Necron lore is bsically just garbage. In an failed attempt to "tie up loose ends" like the Enslavers and C'tan, Ward created a series of new plot holes by completely rewriting the history of interactions between the Eldar and the Necrons.

So not only has Ward pooped all over the GK and the Necrons, he's managed to poop all over Phil Kelly's work as well.

GW really just needs to fire the guy

En Excelsis wrote:

He all but ruined the GK, 100% completely did ruin the Necrons, and will undoubtably ruin whatever the hell he writes next.

I know he did bad things with the Necrons, the celestial orrerry (if I spelt that correctly), being a silly ultimate victory thing which has no place in 40K. If he writes the next Tyranid codex he had better behave.

However my question is what did he do the Grey Knights. I don't have that codex but I've always liked them and I would like to know how he has damaged/molested them?

OldCrons weren't menacing, they were boring.

"Here's my army of silent, mindless robots. We're tough because we just keep getting up again and again, until the dice say we don't."

"So why are we fighting over this desert planet?"

"Because you're alive and my Killer Robots kill all living things and-"

"I brought a Necron army, too."

"Oh. Uhh...programming... glitch?"

...

With the Dynasties as they are now, they actually provide us with a glimpse into Necrontyr culture, as do the tales of the time of Bio-Transference and the War in Heaven. Their enmity with the Eldar actually now provides the Eldar with an ancient foe from the dawn of history, the menace they were *created* to oppose, and yet, through their own actions, nearly destroyed themselves while their foe slept the aeons away. We have internecine conflicts that can drive Necron v Necron fights, plausibly, and Necron Lords with their own plots, plans and goals that can permit them to make use of, and accept tribute from, other factions... almost exactly like the Tomb Kings in Spaaaaaace! that they've always been.

Necron Lords and certain units could have had personalities without destroying everything that made the Necrons menacing and interesting. Now they're just another annoyance on the Imperium's eastern fringe. Hell, the most powerful Necron dynasty is smaller then the tau empire....

I think you're being quite disingenuous here.

If you go purely on Tomb worlds, that would be correct in a sense, because the dynasty only numbers 80 Tomb Worlds. However, it states that 5 times that number pay tribute to the Dynasty. Which would put it significantly larger than the Tau Empire.

We also don't know if that number counts the client dynasties as well.

Not to mention, how many Tau worlds, are actually fully developed? it's only something like, 17 or 20. So, once again, really nothing compared to the Sautekh dynasty.

The Necron Dynasties at their peak probably ruled a comparable number of planets to the Eldar. Neither are a major threat to the Imperium now, but that doesn't mean they should be taken lightly. With their advanced technology and millenia old rulers the Necrons are an impressive foe.

They could also make a valuable ally...

Don't believe it, have'nt the necrons killed a large part of the tyranid fleet?

In the old fluff, the outsider went crazy and every other C'Tan left alive (ie. Nightbringer, Deciever and the Void Dragon) hated him.

In the new fluff, the C'Tan don't control the necrons, so it is possible that a shard of the Outsider could be controling the hive mind and the Necrons don't know.

If they did know then they'd try to destroy the nids more.

Personally, I like to think that the Outsider is a being created by the merging of shards from different C'tan who managed to somehow escape the grasp of the Necrons. All these different shards though effectively make him insane with all these different memories, personalities, etc. combating each other. However, they all do share a similar goal: Get Revenge. Which may or may not include all life in the galaxy including the Necrons. The Outsider though stays hidden for now as he isn't strong enough to wreak the vengeance of the C'tan and is busy hunting throughout the galaxy for more shards to merge with himself.

 Void__Dragon wrote:
The new fluff makes them metal men with hurt feelings. They are now for all intents and purposes robo-Eldar.

The old fluff made them faceless omnicidal killers with no feelings. They were then for all intents and purposes robo-tyranids

Shas'o_Longshot wrote:

 Void__Dragon wrote:
The new fluff makes them metal men with hurt feelings. They are now for all intents and purposes robo-Eldar.

The old fluff made them faceless omnicidal killers with no feelings. They were then for all intents and purposes robo-tyranids

Or were the Tyranids just Fleshy-Necrons? something to dwell on

Shas'o_Longshot wrote:

 Void__Dragon wrote:
The new fluff makes them metal men with hurt feelings. They are now for all intents and purposes robo-Eldar.

The old fluff made them faceless omnicidal killers with no feelings. They were then for all intents and purposes robo-tyranids

Ward has basically turned 'crons into the Twilight of 40K, he has tried to give a race, which should not have, emotions and feeling. You wouldn't expect swormlord to join up with the tau for peace in the galaxy, so why do it to necrons? Also I don't remember, at the end of The terminator, arnie crying at the end when he gets crushed (I know it isn't arnie at that point).

The Necrons, as a race, don't have feelings. They don't have anything, as a race.

What you have is some sort of despotic ruler, surrounded by programmed bodyguards and slightly-less-self-aware nobles, plotting ways to take over other Tombs, reunite all the Necrons, and then go around curbstomping the rest of the Galaxy. Again.

So in a Tomb of, let's say, a million Necrons, you have, what, ten guys with self-awareness and, potentially, feelings? This does not a race make.

more than 10, probably closer 100 with feelings and self-awareness, and 500 with self-awareness

Phaerons, Overlords,Lords, Destroyer Lords and Crypteks all have feelings and are self-aware.

Lychguard and some destroyers (not all) are self-aware

The point stands. 500 guys out of 1 million is a less-than-one-tenth-of-one-percent of the total population with any sense of self. This is not a race, it's a product line.