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Tyranids invade Eye of Terror. How does it go down and who wins?

Depends if the Tyranids are in large enough numbers for the Shadow to overpower the local Daemons. If so, Tyranids have the edge. If not, Chaos has the edge.

Quite why the Tyranids would bother is beyond me though; on their galactic purge, they'd probably treat the Eye very much like they would any other nasty stellar phenomena and simply go around it.

Xyptc wrote:
Quite why the Tyranids would bother is beyond me though; on their galactic purge, they'd probably treat the Eye very much like they would any other nasty stellar phenomena and simply go around it.

Basically this.

Tyranids are here to feed, not conquer. Their targets are based on potential biomass gained in the long run. While they might hit a target low in biomass, like a Forgeworld, it would be to weaken a system so the overall gain is higher. If they hit a daemon world (which they have), it would be because the potential biomass gain based on the planet and defending daemons, assessed by their Vanguard, is positive.

Going into the Eye would be a net loss. They'd be on the daemons home ground, in a completely bizarre environment with completely unpredictable biomass gains. Basically, they'd go around it.

So if the Nids nom nom the galaxy, Chaos can survive by just chilling in the EoT?

The Hive Fleets enjoy initial success against the heavily-defended, but not mutually-supporting, Daemon Worlds that lie within the Eye of Terror.

Unfortunately, the exposure to the raw essence of the Warp causes the Tyranid creatures, from the lowliest Ripper to the mighty Bio-ships, to begin to undergo Chaotic Mutation, gaining sentience in ways that they have never known before, in addition to growing eyes and tentacles in places they ought not to.

Faced with ever-spreading mutation and rival sentiences, which bring plans, plots, madness, depravity, bloodlust and a whole range of extreme mortal emotions to the formerly-emotionless feeding machines, the Hive Fleets are forced to turn on themselves, to expunge the mutated bio-matter from its breeding pools.

It is, however, too late. Synapse Creatures have fallen prey to the Daemon, and the Hive Mind itself is rent asunder by the cacaphony of limitless voices now gibbering blasphemies between the stars. Corrupted Hive-Ships birth daemon-wracked Tyranid bio-forms by the millions, tendrils of the Hive Fleet twist into soul-searing shapes, the Marks of the Ruinous Powers stretched across the vast gulfs of space.

And eventually, eventually, after many millennia, or perhaps only moments, in the Warp, the Hive Fleets have turned on one another and destroyed themselves utterly, their biomass boiled away amongst the shifting tides of the Empyrean.



...exactly according to plan.

 Shlazaor wrote:
So if the Nids nom nom the galaxy, Chaos can survive by just chilling in the EoT?

Not really. When tyranids are done with a planet, there is nothing left but barren rock. No air, no moisture, it is basically just rock. So if they devour the entire the galaxy there is nothing left for chaos. No emotion, no fights, no corruption. Just the four gods, a few marines, and a handful of cultists that will die in very quick order.

If the nids save the EoT for last, then yeah, chaos is screwed. If they attack them while there is still a galaxy of emotion for the daemons to replenish themselves with, then the tyranid hive fleets would be defeated.

 Dannyevilguy wrote:
If the nids save the EoT for last, then yeah, chaos is screwed.

So you could say that the 'nids have come to save us from Chaos?

I, for one, welcome our new insect overlords.

 Psienesis wrote:


...exactly according to plan.

Lol at the "just as planned" idea

 Psienesis wrote:
The Hive Fleets enjoy initial success against the heavily-defended, but not mutually-supporting, Daemon Worlds that lie within the Eye of Terror.

Unfortunately, the exposure to the raw essence of the Warp causes the Tyranid creatures, from the lowliest Ripper to the mighty Bio-ships, to begin to undergo Chaotic Mutation, gaining sentience in ways that they have never known before, in addition to growing eyes and tentacles in places they ought not to.

Faced with ever-spreading mutation and rival sentiences, which bring plans, plots, madness, depravity, bloodlust and a whole range of extreme mortal emotions to the formerly-emotionless feeding machines, the Hive Fleets are forced to turn on themselves, to expunge the mutated bio-matter from its breeding pools.

It is, however, too late. Synapse Creatures have fallen prey to the Daemon, and the Hive Mind itself is rent asunder by the cacaphony of limitless voices now gibbering blasphemies between the stars. Corrupted Hive-Ships birth daemon-wracked Tyranid bio-forms by the millions, tendrils of the Hive Fleet twist into soul-searing shapes, the Marks of the Ruinous Powers stretched across the vast gulfs of space.

And eventually, eventually, after many millennia, or perhaps only moments, in the Warp, the Hive Fleets have turned on one another and destroyed themselves utterly, their biomass boiled away amongst the shifting tides of the Empyrean.



...exactly according to plan.

Yes, yes, so very much yes!

It's quite a good question actually.

What effect would the Hive Mind have on the Eye itself? Would it stabilize the space in that area effectively closing it as they went?

I guess it all depends on what scale the Tyranids invade and try to plug the whole with.

Psienesis explanation is an awfully good one of what might happen.

I don't know though if the warp would affect Tyranids in the same way due to their synaptic connection with each other. Also would consuming the bio mass of these planets mutate the Tyranids with ill effect or make them more resilient to this and enhance them.

Zoanthropes, were initially, Tyranids born from Eldar psykers. What sort of Tyranids would be formed from the stuff of Daemons. In the Material realm, this isn't such an issue as their forms dissolve, but in their own dwellings, the Tyranids will take full opportunity and use these new additions to create even more wacky Tyranids.

Possibly if any race was capable of adapting and taken the fight to Chaos itself, Tyranids would be best suited, they have no pride, no remorse or feelings and cannot be influenced, they are one single mind that wishes to feed.

But they, would they even bother, their concerns aren't with the immaterial, do they even conceive the warp the same as the other races?

Edit: musings, MUSINGS FROM MY EARS

I think that you are right that they wouldn't bother. Unless:

1. Chaos was cooking up something nasty and they felt attacking the EoT was worthwhile from a strategic viewpoint.

2. They found someway to consume Warp entitites (unlikely).

3. They had consumed the rest of the galaxy and had nothing left.

 Shlazaor wrote:

3. They had consumed the rest of the galaxy and had nothing left.

At this point, they likly go back into hibernation and travel to the next galaxy.

But isn't the EOT a tear in our universe? So isn't it almost impossible to close? and even if it did close that doesn't mean that the warp energy already out of the warp would go back in now would it?

 Shlazaor wrote:
I think that you are right that they wouldn't bother. Unless:

1. Chaos was cooking up something nasty and they felt attacking the EoT was worthwhile from a strategic viewpoint.

2. They found someway to consume Warp entitites (unlikely).

3. They had consumed the rest of the galaxy and had nothing left.

1. Do Tyranids perceive strategy and revenge the same way as we do? They are a totally Alien species that do not share the same mortal tie ups. Would they even be aware? The Tyranid only get involved in conflict if something stands in their way, they actively seek out new worlds to it but battle is a by product of them achieving their goal of eating.

2. If they were in the Eye of Terror which is a combination of Warp and real, Daemons forms I guess would be more substantial and possible consumable.

3. They would move on I guess, the Eye of Terror and the like would possibly be the safest places. I don't know if they see the warp as we do or are aware of it is nature or the nature of the warp itself, they are beasts after all, they might not have any notion of anything other than the material plain.

willhman wrote:
But isn't the EOT a tear in our universe? So isn't it almost impossible to close? and even if it did close that doesn't mean that the warp energy already out of the warp would go back in now would it?

Well, the Eye of Terror blinks, so it waxes and wanes. Effectively the Pylons on Cadia are keeping it at its current form, Abaddon is trying to destroy the Pylons to increase the Eye. Enough Pylons could effectively close it, I guess enough Tyranids could do the same due to the shadow that is caused by the Hive Mind.

 Shlazaor wrote:
I think that you are right that they wouldn't bother. Unless:

1. Chaos was cooking up something nasty and they felt attacking the EoT was worthwhile from a strategic viewpoint.

I challenge that point:
While the Hive Mind may seem like an pan-galactic tactical super-genius, it's actually very short sighted. Yes, it's adapted to be able to take out even the best planetary defenses, but it is far too instinctual to have a "grand strategy".
It will go towards the largest source of biomass within a reasonable area, try to nom on the planet, and if it fails, it doesn't really notice. You'd think that it's because this is all part of a plan, but really it's just as stupid as a moth who is attracted to big bright lights. It's barely got enough awareness to figure out how to deal with spaceships, and at the end of the day, biomass is just another big, bright light.
Attracting it to either some warmth (food) or certain death (everything else).
I've never heard of a Tyranid swarm paying any attention to nearby sectors (which is where the IoM's reinforcements come from, and sometimes manage to kill the nids). It is as single-minded as any normal bug.

{ Example thought process: "Oooh! Food!!" **Race towards planet**
**Gets shot at** "OUCH OUCH!!"
**Kills some stuff** "Ahh, much better"
**Eats** "Nom Nom Nom..."
**A forge world sends titans to the planet** "OUCH OUCH OUCH!! Where's that coming from?"
**Takes out forge world** "Nom Nom Nom..."
**Moves off** }

Selym wrote:


I challenge that point:
While the Hive Mind may seem like an pan-galactic tactical super-genius, it's actually very short sighted. Yes, it's adapted to be able to take out even the best planetary defenses, but it is far too instinctual to have a "grand strategy".
It will go towards the largest source of biomass within a reasonable area, try to nom on the planet, and if it fails, it doesn't really notice. You'd think that it's because this is all part of a plan, but really it's just as stupid as a moth who is attracted to big bright lights. It's barely got enough awareness to figure out how to deal with spaceships, and at the end of the day, biomass is just another big, bright light.
Attracting it to either some warmth (food) or certain death (everything else).
I've never heard of a Tyranid swarm paying any attention to nearby sectors (which is where the IoM's reinforcements come from, and sometimes manage to kill the nids). It is as single-minded as any normal bug.

Source for this?


There is certainly evidence to the contrary.

Leviathan certainly has been thinking more strategically. It's flanked the galaxy and attacked from below the galactic plane. It has also taken it upon itself to attack and destroy fortress worlds (5th Edition Tyranid Codex, p28/29) such as Gryphonne IV (Adeptus Mechanicus forge world) and Forgefane (Iron Warriors fortress world). These worlds would not be particularly rich in biomass and the signals from vanguard organisms can only have said "tough nut to crack", yet none the less both worlds were annihilated, most likely at net loss for the Hive Fleet when you consider just those two worlds. If it can conceive of strategy on a battlefield level, a system-wide level and even a sector-wide level then why not a galactic level?

Ultimately though, we don't know exactly how "smart" the Hive Mind is or how it truly perceives us. On a planetary scale though, there is no doubt that both the Hive Tyrants and whatever governs the movements of the swarming ships in space are able to discern their foes accurately and counter military tactics fairly well. Hive Fleet Behemoth even successfully ambushed the Ultramarines fleet in deep space (and was subsequently counter ambushed, but that changes nothing), so "it's barely got enough awareness to figure out how to deal with spaceships" seems a bit on the naive side...

So it has the brains to deal with issues that it comes across, but is there really anymore drive other than 'food that way, lets go that way'?

Xyptc wrote:


Ultimately though, we don't know exactly how "smart" the Hive Mind is or how it truly perceives us. On a planetary scale though, there is no doubt that both the Hive Tyrants and whatever governs the movements of the swarming ships in space are able to discern their foes accurately and counter military tactics fairly well. Hive Fleet Behemoth even successfully ambushed the Ultramarines fleet in deep space (and was subsequently counter ambushed, but that changes nothing), so "it's barely got enough awareness to figure out how to deal with spaceships" seems a bit on the naive side...

The Tyranids are like any normal bug problem - they aren't particularly aware of much, but when they come together against a problem, they instinctively figure out how to destroy it.
There's a reason that 'nids are still making new organisms - they've encountered things they couldn't immediately resolve, and through trial and error found a creature and method to destroy said thing.
They don't need to think, they just do.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Pilau Rice wrote:
So it has the brains to deal with issues that it comes across, but is there really anymore drive other than 'food that way, lets go that way'?

I wouldn't think so, no.

Now, an important question.

Can 'nids even eat daemons? AFAIK daemons are basically just solidified warp energy and return to the warp when they die.

Nids are extremely powerful because even though they sustain an incredible amount of casualties, they can still eat everything that's attacking them to regain strength. But since daemons aren't really a food source, the nids would just keep getting killed and would have to recycle their dead just to make new troops.
And if nids can't eat daemons, why would they even bother attacking the EoT? Surely the few CSM living there wouldn't be worth more than, say, moving onto the next galaxy.

Selym, could you bring some proof. Your viewpoint differs from accepted one, so it would nice to see from where you draw these conclusions.

So, if I understood correctly, Eye of Terror is a tear trough real space and the warp. Going through it will mutate tyranids flesh, making their journey impossible. Also, it's impossible to reach those worlds without entering the warp? If yes, then surely, tyranids have no means of reaching those damned worlds. Maybe it's possible for the Great Devourer to breed their own kind of astropaths and Hala field generators then?


Tyranids can sustain immense casualties, but they can also be starved out. They tend to have immense hunger for biomass which makes them to devour planets while besieging them and also, to make mistakes as we have seen in Dawn of war 2 game. I think that tyranids rally heavily on their "supply lines" and local biomass. If their supply lines are cut off and their besieged planets are light on biomass (usual thing in eye of terror) then tyranids will quickly starve out.


I think, that it's likely that Hive Mind would try to send some scouts and expeditionary forces to Eye of Terror looking for the way in. If a viable solution (mutations) are found then Great Devourer might consider attacking it. If not for biomass then for final improvements on themselves.

Ernestas wrote:
Selym, could you bring some proof. Your viewpoint differs from accepted one, so it would nice to see from where you draw these conclusions.

So, if I understood correctly, Eye of Terror is a tear trough real space and the warp. Going through it will mutate tyranids flesh, making their journey impossible. Also, it's impossible to reach those worlds without entering the warp? If yes, then surely, tyranids have no means of reaching those damned worlds. Maybe it's possible for the Great Devourer to breed their own kind of astropaths and Hala field generators?

But perhaps to enter to Eye of Terror is not the same as entering the warp anywhere else in real space. I personally imagine more of an indistinct boundary where warp and real space mix, a warp gradient which gets more to the warp side the closer you are to the EoT. And at some arbitrary point, you're no longer in real space but in the warp. In that case I could conceivably see the nids entering the warp. Reaching the demon worlds is another matter though.

And what would happen to chaos tainted nids? Well who knows?

 Lord Rogukiel wrote:

And what would happen to chaos tainted nids? Well who knows?

The real question is: can Hive Mind be corrupted? And that are corrupted Tyranids options? Without creating intelligent, warp-sensitive sub-species to guide swarm's evolvement, those mutations would be just one-time thing. Also, vast majority of mutations from exposure to the raw warp is useless at best, so probably, new Hive Mind would simply be twisted and sickly abomination of its "older brother".

Ernestas wrote:
And what would happen to chaos tainted nids? Well who knows?

They'd probably be best avoided by the Hive Fleet, they would probably screw up the evolutionary nature of the Tyranids, add in an unstable element. It would be a threat to the Tyranids, as would be any daemonic influence.

 xSPYXEx wrote:
Now, an important question.

Can 'nids even eat daemons? AFAIK daemons are basically just solidified warp energy and return to the warp when they die.

Nids are extremely powerful because even though they sustain an incredible amount of casualties, they can still eat everything that's attacking them to regain strength. But since daemons aren't really a food source, the nids would just keep getting killed and would have to recycle their dead just to make new troops.
And if nids can't eat daemons, why would they even bother attacking the EoT? Surely the few CSM living there wouldn't be worth more than, say, moving onto the next galaxy.

Yes.

The C:GK has a list of artefacts that are used by certain inquisitorial bodies. One such entry was the hellpistol, which fires fires munitions composed entirely of "demon matter" bascially what remains of a daemon's body after it is slain. This is proof enough that the daemons would be a vialbe food source for Tyranids i it ever came to that.

And, as with all things that the Tyranids consume, they will learn from it. Biovores were created after the hive first tasted Ork bimoass. Zoanthropes were created after they assimilated Eldar biomass. Genestealers are the result of them feeding on human biomass... etc. What wicked esult would come from the Tyrandids consuming a quantity of Daemon Biomass is yet to be seen.

But, ultimately it does not matter.

The warp, exists only as a result of the physical world or materium. It wishes to destroy the materium, yes, and it can even influence it just as it is influenced by it. But every single peice of the warp is made from the thoughts of the living being who inhabit real space. From the lowliest simple daemon, to the 666 named greater daemons, all the way up to the 4 ruinous powers you know as the Chaos Gods. They are all born of us.

The reason the Tyranids cast a "shadow in the warp" is because where they go, they consume all life that has thought... with no though, the warp has nothing mirror... there are no murderous intents to form bloodletters, no schemes to form the whims of Tzeentch... no hate, no lust, no greed or any other mechanism of thought than can become manifest. If the Tyranids were to consume the galaxy Chaos would cease to exist.

Given that the Tyranids have a form of genetic memory, and have consumed entire galaxies before arriving at ours... it is entirely possible that they have encountered similar warp entities in their past. They may also be aware of this and simply igore Chaos altogether kowing that once they had fed, Chaso will abate and no longer be a threat to them.

The reason the Tyranids cast a "shadow in the warp" is because where they go, they consume all life that has thought... with no though, the warp has nothing mirror... there are no murderous intents to form bloodletters, no schemes to form the whims of Tzeentch... no hate, no lust, no greed or any other mechanism of thought than can become manifest. If the Tyranids were to consume the galaxy Chaos would cease to exist.

But why shadow of the warp "arrives" prior tyranids invasions then? Also, I doubt that warp is localised thus dependent on local warp-sensitive life-forms to exist in their area. If your version is a correct one, then shouldn't lifeless space be warpless too making surrounding area impossible to be traveled by warp?

A learned question little orkling

Sadly GW did not see it fit to provide us with specifics. I cannot give you a diagram or explanation of the exact "reach" of the Shadow that Hive casts.

A likely explanation may be that warp beings (who are aware of the goings on in reality) see or in some other way sense the Hive's approach and leave for more populated regions of space... warp beings need real beings like humans need oxygen. And would you not find a new room if the one you were in was abbout to be cut off?

As it pertains to warp travel, there is no way agrue for either side since that particular "science" is almost completely untouched by the lore. The vast areas between worlds may in fact be void of deamons and warp beings, but we don't actually use that space... we start a warp journey in orbit around one world (with beings that manifest in the warp) and make a warp jump. We exit real space, enter the warp and move through it by some means of navigation using the Astronomicon as a compass point. When we arrive at our destination we exit the warp... at no point in that journey did we enter the "vast empty space between worlds"

Hmm. I thought that the Shadow of the Warp was caused by the Tyranid Hivemind being so intense it overpowered all psychic activity nearby.

The shadow in the warp does not prevent travel. That being the case then Hive Fleet Behemouth would not have been destroyed by the arrival of the Imperial Navy from Bakka. If memory serves correct then the Nid fleet was broken when the Imperial flagship activated its warp drives, creating a vortex and sucking the Nids in.
If the Nids cant survive the warp on the other side of the galaxy from the EoT, why would they be able to survive it any better in the middle of the largest warpstorm known , where it bleeds through top reality. Its not quite the same, as true warp I know, but in this case the nids have shown no resistance beyond other biological creatures.... although saying that i t wouldnt surprise me if they are more resistant to the environment... but dead in a minute or a day is still dead.

Iv read or seen nothing beyond it driving Psykers nuts and preventing astropathic communication, along with feelings of terror.

Thats a far cry from being strong enough to prevent ships flying through, or cauising warpstorms to gutter and die out.

Tyranids enter the eye of terror.... they mutate and die like everything else... in my own unfounded opinion I can see the hive mind having turning on itself trying to stamp out mutations and corruption as they appear.

The reason the Tyranids cast a "shadow in the warp" is because where they go, they consume all life that has thought... with no though, the warp has nothing mirror... there are no murderous intents to form bloodletters, no schemes to form the whims of Tzeentch... no hate, no lust, no greed or any other mechanism of thought than can become manifest. If the Tyranids were to consume the galaxy Chaos would cease to exist.

This is probably incorrect. The Shadow In the Warp is a form of psychic "static" caused by having so many trillions of living minds in a relatively small area, minds that are not driven by the typical range of mortal emotion, which is reflected in the Warp in a myriad of ways, but instead becomes a great darkness (possibly also with buzzing, as this army has always been a "swarm of locusts", in the Biblical sense).

It doesn't make them immune to the corrupting effects of Chaos, nor does it completely prevent psychic abilities, it simply makes the latter more difficult. Which is not saying much, as Astropaths are the weakest form of viable psyker in the Imperium. Any weaker and you're Throne-food.