Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

hi fellow dakka dakka patrons

I have just a couple questions today regarding sterguard veterans.
In the BA codex it says that any special ammunition used must be used by all the squad and that they replace normal statistics of ammunition fired, so my questions are:

1) does a stormbolter upgrade to wargear allow me to use the special ammo?
2) If the stormbolter gets the ammo does it then get the rapid fire rule too now if i use an ammo such as hellfire rounds
3) does a heavy weapon upgrade get the ammo too such as a heavy bolter?
4) lastly would a heavy weapon such as a melta get any upgrade to their fired ammo? (i ask because i do not wish to include one if the str value gets put down)

So thanks to any whom can help me with these, would be very helpful indeed!

i wish to do dakka dakka proud by letting me marines shower the enemy in a blaze of fire .... Dakka dakka dakka dakka .....

No to all, only Boltguns fire the special issue ammo, and this belongs in YMDC.

Only standard boltguns and combi-weapons firing as a boltgun get to use special ammunition.

Belongs in YMDC.

Also, only Bolters are valid. You could take combi-weapons, which can fire special ammo and the special weapon, but otherwise no.

Ninja'd

surely a storm bolter counts though.. its still a bolter... why bother giving them the upgrade options if only default marines can actually use it.

It does not

Q: Can Sternguard Veterans equipped with storm bolters use their
Special Issue Ammunition with these weapons? (p27)
A: No.

And don't call me Shirley

page 27 of what?
and dont call me shirley joke doesnt quite work in text...

Also i meant to add before could a mod move this topic if it doesnt belong here, sorry.

I really like Storm Bolter models aesthetically, but really, I'm not sure why anyone would use Storm Bolters with Sternguard considering that Special Ammunition is better, especially considering the SB "upgrade" actually costs points.

+5 points per model, 2 shots at 24" range and imagine if you could take special ammo and then rapid fire them.... holy %^&*!!

This question is answered in the Codex: Space Marines FAQ. Sternguard must use Boltguns or Combi-Weapons to be allowed the use of the Special Ammunition.

ok downloaded the FAQ and it is there, however the FAQ is a load of bull, i say let them publish a new codex and ill follow the rules in that, i have a hard copy infront of me and if it doesnt say otherwise a stormbolter is a bolter, thanks anyway dakka dakka.

A stormbolter is a stormbolter, a bolter is a bolter. Surprisingly enough these two things are not the same. It's only a bolter if it uses the bolter profile to fire, which a stormbolter does not.

Also the FAQ I pulled out for you is from the BA FAQ, which trumps codex, a Storm Bolter is a Storm Bolter.

If you read the rule for the special issue ammon on Page 27 of C:BA it is quite clear, but i'll quote it for you.

'... each special issue ammunition type replaces the boltgun profile(including boltguns that are part of a combi weapon...'

Boltgun is different to Storm Bolter, the have different profiles, they are different weapons, the special ammo rule only gives permission to replace the Boltgun profile. Not the storm bolter one, or the heavy bolter one. But all this explanation is pointless since there is a FAQ spelling it out.


And don't tell me you didn't voice it in your head when you read it

 lloyd.net wrote:
ok downloaded the FAQ and it is there, however the FAQ is a load of bull, i say let them publish a new codex and ill follow the rules in that, i have a hard copy infront of me and if it doesnt say otherwise a stormbolter is a bolter, thanks anyway dakka dakka.

Just because you do not like it does not make it any less legal.

I hope one of your opponents calls you on cheating.

Chrysis wrote:A stormbolter is a stormbolter, a bolter is a bolter. Surprisingly enough these two things are not the same. It's only a bolter if it uses the bolter profile to fire, which a stormbolter does not.

They are pretty much the same, i think it could be easily misinterpreted, and thats what i did.

Eldercaveman wrote:Also the FAQ I pulled out for you is from the BA FAQ, which trumps codex, a Storm Bolter is a Storm Bolter.

If you read the rule for the special issue ammon on Page 27 of C:BA it is quite clear, but i'll quote it for you.

'... each special issue ammunition type replaces the boltgun profile(including boltguns that are part of a combi weapon...'

Boltgun is different to Storm Bolter, the have different profiles, they are different weapons, the special ammo rule only gives permission to replace the Boltgun profile. Not the storm bolter one, or the heavy bolter one. But all this explanation is pointless since there is a FAQ spelling it out.


And don't tell me you didn't voice it in your head when you read it

Already downloaded and read it if you read above

Crazyterran wrote:

 lloyd.net wrote:
ok downloaded the FAQ and it is there, however the FAQ is a load of bull, i say let them publish a new codex and ill follow the rules in that, i have a hard copy infront of me and if it doesnt say otherwise a stormbolter is a bolter, thanks anyway dakka dakka.

Just because you do not like it does not make it any less legal.

I hope one of your opponents calls you on cheating.

i didnt say i would 100% definately use it... and your rudeness is not appreciated here.

What we and the FAQ are saying is that you can 100% defiantly not use it, within the stipulations of the 40k Rules.

 lloyd.net wrote:

Crazyterran wrote:

 lloyd.net wrote:
ok downloaded the FAQ and it is there, however the FAQ is a load of bull, i say let them publish a new codex and ill follow the rules in that, i have a hard copy infront of me and if it doesnt say otherwise a stormbolter is a bolter, thanks anyway dakka dakka.

Just because you do not like it does not make it any less legal.

I hope one of your opponents calls you on cheating.

i didnt say i would 100% definately use it... and your rudeness is not appreciated here.

That's hilarious. I'll point out to you what you said:

 lloyd.net wrote:
ok downloaded the FAQ and it is there, however the FAQ is a load of bull, i say let them publish a new codex and ill follow the rules in that, i have a hard copy infront of me and if it doesnt say otherwise a stormbolter is a bolter, thanks anyway dakka dakka.

Essentially, you read the FAQ, where it said explicitly that Stormbolters may not be used in tandem with Special Ammunition. You then preceded to call it (the game legal ruling) a load of bull, and implied that you where going to go ahead and use the Stormbolter with Specialist Ammunition anyways. And then brushed off what all of us said. You threw a fit, because both the GW FAQ and Dakka said the opposite of what you wanted to hear.

Maybe I was a little rude, but I was returning the favour!

Eldercaveman wrote:
What we and the FAQ are saying is that you can 100% defiantly not use it, within the stipulations of the 40k Rules.

This.

no i was just pointing out my opinion towards it and that if it doesnt say otherwise its still a bolter, i didnt say i would use a stormbolter and the rules, never did i say that.
anywho im not going to bother anymore, i have my answer and your being over dramatic towards the whole thing and how someone new might read it and someone who is very much into gaming might read into it.
Good day.

 lloyd.net wrote:
no i was just pointing out my opinion towards it and that if it doesnt say otherwise its still a bolter, i didnt say i would use a stormbolter and the rules, never did i say that.
anywho im not going to bother anymore, i have my answer and your being over dramatic towards the whole thing and how someone new might read it and someone who is very much into gaming might read into it.
Good day.

Did you even read what you previously wrote? You clearly implied that you where going to use a Stormbolter 'as a bolter' in context with the Sternguard.

Good grief.

Crazyterran wrote:

 lloyd.net wrote:
no i was just pointing out my opinion towards it and that if it doesnt say otherwise its still a bolter, i didnt say i would use a stormbolter and the rules, never did i say that.
anywho im not going to bother anymore, i have my answer and your being over dramatic towards the whole thing and how someone new might read it and someone who is very much into gaming might read into it.
Good day.

Did you even read what you previously wrote? You clearly implied that you where going to use a Stormbolter 'as a bolter' in context with the Sternguard.

Good grief.

A storm bolter may well be a bolter, in the fact that it fires bolts, giving it the 'slang' of Bolter, however what it is not is a BOLTGUN, which is what the rule says has permission to use the ammo.


Also this..

The issue is when you get your answer, you say "thanks anyway dakka", as if the people helping you were doing nothing but try to ruin your day.

Even if you could use it with a storm bolter, it overrides the weapon profile, so it turns into rapid fire in each situation regardless rather than being assault 2!

Ontologically there's an interesting debate to be had on whether or not a Storm Bolter is a Bolter.

But rules is rules, and it's pretty clear what they are in this instance.

A bolt gun and storm bolter are two completely different things,

How fair would it be point per points if you could give sternguard storm bolters that still uses their special ammo,

That's two shots of say... Hellfire at 24 inches away per marine.

That's 20 shots at a good distance, thats just not fair
It would be incredibly over powered and you could field just a lot of stern guard and dominate.
But if you did that no one would play with you Becuase no one likes to lose, and if they find out you cheated and that caused them to lose well you might as well just sell your army cause if you did that to my club, you'd be kicked out

goodriddans2 wrote:
A bolt gun and storm bolter are two completely different things,

How fair would it be point per points if you could give sternguard storm bolters that still uses their special ammo,

That's two shots of say... Hellfire at 24 inches away per marine.

No it would not be able to fire "two shots of say... Hellfire at 24 inches".

If SB's were allowed to use the SI Ammo (Its not able to, but for the sake of discussion...) they would no longer be Assault 2, they would be Rapid fire.