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 Gentleman_Jellyfish wrote:
I see it as no different from buying all the pirate figures, except these might be fun

Except that when you grow tired of the Pirates limited play style, you can mingle them with the rest of the Merc faction and expand your options considerably. With Cyriss you won't have that option.

 Platuan4th wrote:
The only thing that bugs me about this situation is that no one at PP said anything about it until you posted Redcap's quotes. I wonder when we would have found that out "naturally" if Redcap hadn't said anything.

That is a good question, I wasn't around for the release of the Retribution, what kind of announcements did they make regarding their future releases?


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PhantomViper wrote:

 Gentleman_Jellyfish wrote:
I see it as no different from buying all the pirate figures, except these might be fun

Except that when you grow tired of the Pirates limited play style, you can mingle them with the rest of the Merc faction and expand your options considerably. With Cyriss you won't have that option.

Sure, but if there are a limited number of releases, you can buy the entire faction and then just start playing another one. Although it may not offer the same model re usability as Mercenaries does

From PhantomViper on the previous page:

http://privateerpressforums.com/showthread.php?156712-Convergence-of-Cyriss-to-be-a-one-time-only-release&p=1987816#post1987816

PPS_Simon wrote:Right now we don't plan for the Convergence of Cyriss to be added to the regular rotation of updated armies in our WARMACHINE anthology books (Cygnar, Khador, the Protectorate of Menoth, Cryx, and the Retribution of Scyrah), but we will likely add new models to their ranks from time to time.

I posted a follow-up question and got a reply from PPS_Simon:

Simon- How will rules get released for new models if they're not part of the anthology books?

PPS_Simon wrote:They would likely be included in the anthology books when we do release new models, they just won't be an assumed inclusion like our main factions.

For some this will be an issue,

but for others that like to have everything (but are on a budget) they may well be ideal.

Also for those who can't quite bring themselves to spring for a full second faction.

Thanan wrote:Simon,

Will convergence still be included in the fluff, in a similar manner to the other factions, in each book (similar to Colossals?)

PPS_Simon wrote:With the launch of SIX we're considering some new ways to address the narrative fiction in the anthology books and how we advance our overaching meta-plot, so I don't have a solid answer to your question right now.

That's actually disappointing. I rather liked some of the Cyriss models because they deviated from the typical World of Warcraft aesthetic that PP seems to enjoy so much. Had this Cyriss been a fully supported army, I may have actually gotten into Warmachine as a side-game. Now, I'll probably just pick up the occasional model that looks nice if/when I can find it for a decent price.

That Angel and the adorable servitors are especially on my buy-list.

 Gentleman_Jellyfish wrote:
Are those.. FLYING STANDS??

Maybe Legion will get some so not all their flyers are dragging their butts on the ground.

Wait... so they are going to be a one shot release effectively? That is going to suck because the meta will change with each new release while the army stagnates. The "occasional" update does not sound good.

Also, with this becoming a non-Core faction release. Will this be available to outside stores or is this effectively becoming a online exclusive to PP?

 Absolutionis wrote:
That's actually disappointing. I rather liked some of the Cyriss models because they deviated from the typical World of Warcraft aesthetic that PP seems to enjoy so much. Had this Cyriss been a fully supported army, I may have actually gotten into Warmachine as a side-game. Now, I'll probably just pick up the occasional model that looks nice if/when I can find it for a decent price.

That Angel and the adorable servitors are especially on my buy-list.

I think its going to be better to think of the Convergence models like a standard faction but aren't going to have the filler units and models like the previous factions do. When they do come out with new Convergence models, you will know that it is there because there is a niche that it fills.

Almost like how 40k has became with new models coming out each cycle but you will know that PP won't invalidate any of your old models.

RiTides wrote:

Thanan wrote:Simon,

Will convergence still be included in the fluff, in a similar manner to the other factions, in each book (similar to Colossals?)

PPS_Simon wrote:With the launch of SIX we're considering some new ways to address the narrative fiction in the anthology books and how we advance our overaching meta-plot, so I don't have a solid answer to your question right now.

So they call it SIX in the office? That sounds better

Absolutionis wrote:That's actually disappointing. I rather liked some of the Cyriss models because they deviated from the typical World of Warcraft aesthetic that PP seems to enjoy so much. Had this Cyriss been a fully supported army, I may have actually gotten into Warmachine as a side-game. Now, I'll probably just pick up the occasional model that looks nice if/when I can find it for a decent price.

That Angel and the adorable servitors are especially on my buy-list.

I don't get why you like it less because of this. I thought people would like the idea of owning a full faction to play if Warmachine is their side game.

Bossk_Hogg wrote:

 Gentleman_Jellyfish wrote:
Are those.. FLYING STANDS??

Maybe Legion will get some so not all their flyers are dragging their butts on the ground.

Afflictor would have been perfect

silent25 wrote:Wait... so they are going to be a one shot release effectively? That is going to suck because the meta will change with each new release while the army stagnates. The "occasional" update does not sound good.

Also, with this becoming a non-Core faction release. Will this be available to outside stores or is this effectively becoming a online exclusive to PP?

They've said it will be available to retailers. PP isn't in the business of selling direct.

PPS_Simon wrote:With the launch of SIX we're considering some new ways to address the narrative fiction in the anthology books and how we advance our overaching meta-plot, so I don't have a solid answer to your question right now.

Wait.... that is the abbreviation for their novel imprint? Now that X in the title just became doubly annoying


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 Gentleman_Jellyfish wrote:

silent25 wrote:Wait... so they are going to be a one shot release effectively? That is going to suck because the meta will change with each new release while the army stagnates. The "occasional" update does not sound good.

Also, with this becoming a non-Core faction release. Will this be available to outside stores or is this effectively becoming a online exclusive to PP?

They've said it will be available to retailers. PP isn't in the business of selling direct.

That isn't quite true, they have a number of "exclusives" on their site. Was worried though that this was the beginning of a trend.

silent25 wrote:

 Gentleman_Jellyfish wrote:

silent25 wrote:Wait... so they are going to be a one shot release effectively? That is going to suck because the meta will change with each new release while the army stagnates. The "occasional" update does not sound good.

Also, with this becoming a non-Core faction release. Will this be available to outside stores or is this effectively becoming a online exclusive to PP?

They've said it will be available to retailers. PP isn't in the business of selling direct.

That isn't quite true, they have a number of "exclusives" on their site. Was worried though that this was the beginning of a trend.

The exclusives on their site are just the convention items that they don't give to retailers, or in the case of the Classics, those are items that are now in plastic, but if people want the metal versions they can still buy it. I couldn't see them selling Cyriss exclusively through them.

PhantomViper wrote:
but this is the first time that PP as gone this way with a new release...

They did the same thing, basically, with pirates.

Entire pirate releases so far consist of:
-first wave talion theme (warjacks, 1 caster, units, solos) NQ list
-first "forces of" book (2 more casters, 1 warjack, some units and solos)
-Galleon


things that kind of count as releases:
-Rover & Rocinante (only post-Talion models that can play with talion but isn't thematically linked to naval stuff (listed above)... and they can't fit in theme forces, which brings me to
-theme forces in FOWM:Mercs
-1 theme force in a NQ, that requires you take a bunch of non-pirate pieces to be at all useful


...that's pretty sparse, if all you like is the pirate sub-faction

I'm actually pretty happy with the idea of a limited army... pros:
-warcasters that radically alter the fundamental rules of a large portion of your army seem easier if fewer/could get quickly overwhelming
-I don't have an unlimited budget

cons:
-without access to mercs, fewer avenues to expand when not getting many releases; also, no mercs means you need to jump in rather than be able to ease in with some stuff you already own/know how to use
-fewer releases mean they need to nail the initial release: fewer options mean that weak or OP pieces will stand out that much more.

-combined: there are fewer ways of solving a problem. For instance, in a normal faction, if they needed a damage buff but didn't have one, mercs have solos that they could use, but these guys can't. Also, I don't like the aesthetic of a number of them, so would likely not expect more releases nor the ability to sub in mercs for ugly infantry.

 spiralingcadaver wrote:

PhantomViper wrote:
but this is the first time that PP as gone this way with a new release...

They did the same thing, basically, with pirates.

Entire pirate releases so far consist of:
-first wave talion theme (warjacks, 1 caster, units, solos) NQ list
-first "forces of" book (2 more casters, 1 warjack, some units and solos)
-Galleon


things that kind of count as releases:
-Rover & Rocinante (only post-Talion models that can play with talion but isn't thematically linked to naval stuff (listed above)... and they can't fit in theme forces, which brings me to
-theme forces in FOWM:Mercs
-1 theme force in a NQ, that requires you take a bunch of non-pirate pieces to be at all useful


...that's pretty sparse, if all you like is the pirate sub-faction

I'm actually pretty happy with the idea of a limited army... pros:
-warcasters that radically alter the fundamental rules of a large portion of your army seem easier if fewer/could get quickly overwhelming
-I don't have an unlimited budget

cons:
-without access to mercs, fewer avenues to expand when not getting many releases; also, no mercs means you need to jump in rather than be able to ease in with some stuff you already own/know how to use
-fewer releases mean they need to nail the initial release: fewer options mean that weak or OP pieces will stand out that much more.

-combined: there are fewer ways of solving a problem. For instance, in a normal faction, if they needed a damage buff but didn't have one, mercs have solos that they could use, but these guys can't. Also, I don't like the aesthetic of a number of them, so would likely not expect more releases nor the ability to sub in mercs for ugly infantry.

I think I can agree with this entire post

Good news for faction completionists!


Honestly, if this is the new model for new factions, I'm okay with it. You get a new flavor, something new to try, something that scales to the 'cult' status of Cyriss, as opposed to the nation status of the Kriels, Khador, and Cygnar etc.

It has some extra flair, some daring. It's a risk, no doubt.

But better that than get comfortable.

 spiralingcadaver wrote:

They did the same thing, basically, with pirates.

No matter how much Pirates and Searforge players like to think otherwise, those are not factions, they are sub-sets of the Mercenary Faction.

I guess it's nice of them to try something new without worrying too much about intrafaction balance when adding new units. It's a welcome change.

 gunslingerpro wrote:
Good news for faction completionists!


Honestly, if this is the new model for new factions, I'm okay with it. You get a new flavor, something new to try, something that scales to the 'cult' status of Cyriss, as opposed to the nation status of the Kriels, Khador, and Cygnar etc.

It has some extra flair, some daring. It's a risk, no doubt.

But better that than get comfortable.

Agreed! And with Absolutionis, too.

I'd actually started to lean against picking up Cyriss with how much was coming out, thinking it'd continue like that. A more limited cult makes perfect sense to me (and my wallet).

This has been a productive two pages! From rage to enjoyment

PhantomViper wrote:

 spiralingcadaver wrote:

They did the same thing, basically, with pirates.

No matter how much Pirates and Searforge players like to think otherwise, those are not factions, they are sub-sets of the Mercenary Faction.

1- yes, they're not factions but

2- the closest thing mercs have to an all-encompassing army is Four Star, and, whatever you do, you need to pick a theme or contract, meaning mercs treat their armies differently

3- privateers were sure as hell presented like a mini-faction, with the majority of stuff having tight synergy and little outside of other privateer stuff: you're thoroughly encouraged to run mostly pirates if you run them at all. I think it's not players' fault that they think of them as a faction

4- Dwarves have actually regularly gotten releases. Nearly every book has had 1-3 dwarf entries, including some Hordes ones, so they're actually treated decently well. PP could have easily just allowed Highborn or Four Star a couple more choices and let players naturally make themed dwarf lists in one, but they decided to make them their own contract (eventually), again, encouraging them to be thought of as a unique entity.

5- remember, mercs weren't originally a faction: they didn't even have rules for playing on their own. Four Star having the Piper and Devil Dogs explicitly listed was to allow players who had previously been running mercs as a fake faction to keep all their options in one place. What I'm saying is, there's room for flexible definitions in mercs, and they've been pretty organically growing, from an illegal pseudo-faction, to a couple mini-factions that were largely the same, to a half-dozen or so radically different sets of options under one heading.

I kind of am liking this militia faction idea of how CoC will be included in to the IK; it's playtesting without so much of a risk. They're not quite a faction but not on the level of mercs/minions; organized, but small yet still a concern. A player knows what they will get with each new unit and with each new warcaster that may occasionally happen to be released.

I kind of hope to see more stuff like this; it spices up the world without having to throw everything off balance or divert too much attention away from the core groups. It also offers up a chance for them to be a full faction force in the future.

 Gentleman_Jellyfish wrote:
This has been a productive two pages! From rage to enjoyment

Well allow me to feth all that up then. lol...

At first I thought I would give them props for at least being honest with players at the start so that they wouldn't waste their money buying into a one-off release that won't get any future support, but that big bit of info had to be coaxed out of them and only after someone spilled the beans online. They were apparently perfectly happy going into this without players knowing that little fact. So...no. Not a big fan of the news and I know at least one person who will be put off by it. =\

Is it bad that im glad they wont get regular releases ?

So that i get my new Shinies faster ?

To be fair, they did volunteer the information at the seminar. Nobody coaxed it out of them then. They just told us, so maybe it's a recent decision? It doesn't make a ton of sense that it would be, but I'm trying to give them the benefit of the doubt.

 Spyder68 wrote:
Is it bad that im glad they wont get regular releases ?

So that i get my new Shinies faster ?

Rumor is, all Mercenary releases have been put on hold for the next two years for this faction (Ok, not really)



I really dig the infantry--actually more than the jacks. I think they have a pretty unique look--and actually make me want to do an infantry swarm (which I wonder how they will run).

Simon posted that they had retailers told at the conference for a reason- they wanted the info to come out. So it's not that if redcaps hadn't posted it wouldn't have come out. Cool that the news hit the web on Dakka first, though

 AgeOfEgos wrote:

 Spyder68 wrote:
Is it bad that im glad they wont get regular releases ?

So that i get my new Shinies faster ?

Rumor is, all Mercenary releases have been put on hold for the next two years for this faction (Ok, not really)



I really dig the infantry--actually more than the jacks. I think they have a pretty unique look--and actually make me want to do an infantry swarm (which I wonder how they will run).

I agree about the infantry, they look intresting.

Its really the jacks that get me.


Now thing i see on this, They don't want to set themselves in for new Releases every book, but i could also see that they could get something new every book.. just not as much as the main factions, and this opens the door for that.

 Spyder68 wrote:


Now thing i see on this, They don't want to set themselves in for new Releases every book, but i could also see that they could get something new every book.. just not as much as the main factions, and this opens the door for that.

Precisely. People are upset about the perceived lack of updates for Retribution (a younger faction), so rather than open themselves up for that type of criticism again, they're concentrating on core models and dynamics, instead of model count.

Its worth noting the cyriss models have more variance than other faction units. The infantry can change weapons, the warcaster changes the unit stats, etc. Each new unit is effectively several from what I understand. That's got to take more design time to avoid breaking the game, particularly with the new focus mechanic. Building slower after release makes the most sense.

On the other hand, they really need to give minions some extra releases to catch up in any kind of variety. If they are thornfall or blindwater specific, they dont require to be balanced for inclusion in every other faction. Each pact only got 2 in the last book, which is just sad.

 Sidstyler wrote:

 Gentleman_Jellyfish wrote:
This has been a productive two pages! From rage to enjoyment

Well allow me to feth all that up then. lol...

At first I thought I would give them props for at least being honest with players at the start so that they wouldn't waste their money buying into a one-off release that won't get any future support, but that big bit of info had to be coaxed out of them and only after someone spilled the beans online. They were apparently perfectly happy going into this without players knowing that little fact. So...no. Not a big fan of the news and I know at least one person who will be put off by it. =\

PP clearly intended this information to hit the public at this time. Why else would they have employees at a trade show telling people about it? Just because they didn't say that as soon as the faction was released doesn't mean they wanted to pull a fast one on us.