Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.
Was rereading the HH book Nemesis there and thinking about what might have happened had Speqar reached the Emperor.
For those that havent read the book
Spoiler:
Spear, the Black Pariah - Within Imperial history, there has only been one known so-called "Black Pariah" to have ever existed. He was a former Imperial Assassin by the code-name of "Spear," who lived during the time of the Horus Heresy. Born as a human Untouchable, he was captured by the Silent Sisterhood and brought to Terra, where Clade Culexus experimented upon and augmented him in an attempt to create a more powerful and deadly form of Culexus Assassin. It is not known whether these augmentations or his unnatural abilities made him a Black Pariah. Spear was eventually deemed too unstable and dangerous by his clade's masters to be left alive. He was placed in the care of the Sisters of Silence and was sent aboard one of their lone vessels, bound for the heart of a nearby sun. Unfortunately, this vessel was intercepted by a Renegade vessel carrying the Dark Apostle Erebus of the traitorous Word Bearers Legion. Boarding the Sisters' vessel, the Word Bearers killed all aboard, with the exception of Spear. Sensing the usefulness of such a unique specimen, Erebus found a new purpose for his captive. He forced Spear to undergo a painful and vile Chaotic ritual, in which a minor daemon from the Immaterium was bonded with the former assassin. This bonding created a highly dangerous apex predator -- a "counter-psyker" -- capable of redirecting a psyker's attack directly back upon them. In order to utilise this ability, the Black Pariah first had to obtain a sample of his target's blood. This was a necessary component that helped him synchronise with his target's psionic abilities in order to reflect their attacks. Two standard years later, following the events of the Drop Site Massacre on Istvaan V, Erebus tasked his deadly minion to assassinate the Emperor. Spear spent an inordinate amount of time in order to painstakingly reach his ultimate goal -- a document that possessed a minute drop of the Emperor of Mankind's precious blood. Spear obtained the document on the world of Dagonet, bringing him into direct conflict with an Imperial Execution Force composed of Imperial Assassins from every clade, who were attempting to assassinate the Traitor Primarch Horus. Though the mission was ultimately deemed a failure, resulting in the death of all its members, this confrontation resulted in the Black Pariah's destruction. Horus later chastised Erebus for his audacious plan to assassinate the Emperor, declaring that when the opportune moment finally dawned, it would be him -- and him alone -- who killed the Master of Mankind.
Effectively Spear is the ultimate counter psyker, the stronger the enemy psyker is the more lethal Spear becomes. To be honest that quote dosent really do him justice - suffice to say when the Lords found out he was potentially attacking the Emperor even Dorn shuddered at the thought.
Do you guys think he could have killed the Emperor?
Spoiler:
Would the Emperor have to have used his psychich ability for Spear to counter him or would his innate psychich presence be enough to trigger Spears killing blow?
What do you think the effect on the Astronomican could have been if Spear made it to the Sol system?
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/02/01 15:47:17
Dman137 wrote:
goobs is all you guys will ever be
By 1-irt: Still as long as Hissy keeps showing up this is one of the most entertaining threads ever.
I think Dorns musing about the Emperor being able to look after himself is true here.
Spear is an interesting character and concept for an anti - Emperor weapon but his psychic power is not the only thing that the Emperor has going for him.
I also think that should Spear be able to get into a fight with the Emperor and he was able to make use of his blank ability I think the Emperor would just have too much juice for Spear to handle.
I tend to agree, I loved Spear as an idea/character but do feel the Emp is going to have the edge
I wonder however if a "super spear" was produced what it might be - perhaps a Great Daemon-esque monster with an even deeper mirror on the warp raher than the humanoid Spear was.
What do think about the Emp actually having to manifest a power Pilau rather than just "being psychic"?
What about the psychic choir - would Spear gain truely unnatural power feeding off it?
Dman137 wrote:
goobs is all you guys will ever be
By 1-irt: Still as long as Hissy keeps showing up this is one of the most entertaining threads ever.
Spear was a freak, I don't think their would be any blank strong enough to have a Greater Daemon stapled to it. I don't think the Greater Daemon would be too happy with it either. It was only possible because the warp entity was more beast than an actual daemon, I assume something lower than a Fury.
It's the one thing about Spear that I did wtf about, how did Erebus glue a Daemon to a blank.
I dunno, I guess he just is psychic, he's certainly a bit of an enigma compared to others psykers where he have some standard as to their ability. The Emperor though, he powers the guides the Astronomicon whilst guiding the Imperium, reading a magazine, doing the Sudoku and enjoying a brew
Does Spear gain power though? I thought he was just able to filter the warp energy back into the warp, I don't think it gives him a boost or owt. I think the Psychic Choir might again be too much for him, he might be able to take advantage of a few but if they all turned their mind onto him at once then I think again, it would be an overload thing.
Ratius wrote: Yah apologies, bad wording by me - he dosent gain power as you said, just channels the attack back into the warp to dissipate it.
Like the Animus Speculum, I think it's called.
Spear and his abilities are pretty hard to understand honestly. I don' t know how he's able to do it and confused me a bit. I know he can dissipate the power into the warp, and through blood, send the attack back. But how does he do that, how does he actually draw the power back from the warp without the assistance of the Animus?
I vaguely recall reading (when Spear is thinking to himself how weak the Culexes is) - not needing the assistance of the Animus when he can "do it naturally".
I think basically the ability is inbuilt in his genetic/daemon/psychic makeup hence he dosent need an Animus or similar device.
Probably a bit of a HH books "ah just go with it" explanation methinks!
Dman137 wrote:
goobs is all you guys will ever be
By 1-irt: Still as long as Hissy keeps showing up this is one of the most entertaining threads ever.
Hehe, having said that I did like the basic idea of him and the way he was portrayed.
The idea that he *might* be able to kill the Emperor was sort of inruiging to a point I felt.
The whole Galaxy is buring with billions of troops fighting for Humanitys survival and the nerdy, outcast kid with anger issues ends it all
Dman137 wrote:
goobs is all you guys will ever be
By 1-irt: Still as long as Hissy keeps showing up this is one of the most entertaining threads ever.
There's also the fact that without his psychic powers, the Emperor was hardly defenseless. Being a psychic blank doesn't stop a sword from killing you.
"By this point I'm convinced 100% that every single race in the 40k universe have somehow tapped into the ork ability to just have their tech work because they think it should."
Spear would never get to fight the Emperor alone, The Palace at the time was full of fists and his Custodes.
d-usa wrote:Orks are the GW version of R2D2. No matter how advanced the defenses may be, there is always an open serial port somewhere that can be pluged into and a firewall that was never configured.
Just like with films, at times as readers we're required to suspend our disbelief for the story to work properly.
I liked Spear and the 'threat' he carried to the Imperium. It made for a good plotline for the story. Ratius hit the nail on the head with the 'just go with it' comment.
I just went with it and thought it interesting. Opens up the heresy a bit with sub-plots and intrigues etc rather than just 'good' marines v 'bad' marines.
Didn't enjoy the the book on the same level as say Legion or First Heretic but I liked it nonetheless.
Revilers 6,000pts
Dark Eldar 4,000pts
Cadian 229 regiment 3,000pts
If a psychic being is powerful enough (not just greater deamon but a leader among greater daemons) a pariah can be broken.
Not sure if it's official lore but it was in a black library book.
The Emperor has enough psychic might to project a psychic beacon across nearly the entire milky way galaxy (which has a diameter of 100,000 light years).
Trying to overpower someone with that much psychic might (and a lot to spare) as a blank is kind of like trying to fight an M1 Abrams tank with a twig. You could spend your entire life trying to form that twig into the perfect tank-killing shape, but when the time comes to use it the twig is still going to snap like a...well, twig.
Saint Celestine: I used to think that being an immortal warrior of the God Emperor made relationships impossible. But then Gamers For Marines Getting Laid introduced me to a man just like me!
Void__Dragon wrote: Spear is among the most powerful Pariahs in history, lol.
Lesser developed Omega Minus Pariahs have nearly sent Ahriman into a coma from across the star system, from what I hear.
Ahriman is no Emperor, but he is probably the most powerful Space Marine psyker in the galaxy.
I doubt Spear could have killed the Emperor though.
The strongest ant in history is still weaker than the weakest man.
Saint Celestine: I used to think that being an immortal warrior of the God Emperor made relationships impossible. But then Gamers For Marines Getting Laid introduced me to a man just like me!
The entire story was a waste of time that could have been neatly summed up into a single chapter of a larger tale.
Assassins are sent out from both sides. They somehow meet in the middle and kill each other. Meanwhile both the Emperor and Horus categorically state that this battle will be between them and that their underlings shouldn't employ assassins.
Okay...
Also, the whole idea of a blank being taken over by a daemon is anathema to them being a blank. And, yes, I've read the Eisenhorn series and I thought the part about a pariah being overwhelmed was pulled out of his *** because of the situation he had written himself into.
The best thing BL could do right now is delete this book.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/02/08 16:56:54
------------------
"Why me?" Gideon begged, falling to his knees.
"Why not?" - Asdrubael Vect
Respectfully disagree with your sysnopsis - I really liked it (too drawn out at the start perhaps with the investigation piece) but thats opinions for you
And tbh you could synopsize every single HH book in 5 lines.
Less fun though
Dman137 wrote:
goobs is all you guys will ever be
By 1-irt: Still as long as Hissy keeps showing up this is one of the most entertaining threads ever.
The whole idea of binding a deamon ie a creature of the warp into a being that is anathema to the warp is just dumb. It just makes no sense.
Maybe I also dislike Spear so much as I was so let down with Nemesis as a whole. Of all the sweet ideas for Assassin temples and all they could come up with is venom and [i]information[i]? Yawn.
reaper with no name wrote: The Emperor has enough psychic might to project a psychic beacon across nearly the entire milky way galaxy (which has a diameter of 100,000 light years).
Trying to overpower someone with that much psychic might (and a lot to spare) as a blank is kind of like trying to fight an M1 Abrams tank with a twig. You could spend your entire life trying to form that twig into the perfect tank-killing shape, but when the time comes to use it the twig is still going to snap like a...well, twig.
Good analogy, bar the part where the more power put into overcoming thr psychic blank is then thrown back at the emperor, if he could not dent the emperor... Why send him?