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Yeah wasn't sure what was going on with the arms. With the weapons mounted it looks very nice.

I have to admit I thought it was fairly obvious that the Vulkan's stubby arms were weapon mounts. It does obviously look better with weapons attached.

I've just thrown another £24 onto my pledge, so that's one unit of Venusian rangers and something else once I figure out which other faction I want. Which thanks to the recent updates is getting a lot more difficult.

Yeah, part of me is thinking of adding some Armoured Chasseurs to my pledge instead of two V-Ranger boxes. But I'm holding strong. Though I may yet drop another £14 on a second Vulcan. But I think I'll hold off for a bit to see what else they add. I've already got close to $200 in this thing, and it still has over 50 days to go. I can probably take it easy for a bit.

 Nick Ellingworth wrote:
I have to admit I thought it was fairly obvious that the Vulkan's stubby arms were weapon mounts. It does obviously look better with weapons attached.

I've just thrown another £24 onto my pledge, so that's one unit of Venusian rangers and something else once I figure out which other faction I want. Which thanks to the recent updates is getting a lot more difficult.

Sure they looked like gun mounts, but how were they going to look after attaching was the question. Vulkans had arms so it would be nice to see what that looks like. Ive seen weapons mounted on walkers plenty of different ways. I think this looks pretty good. Honestly I think it's the first thing I've seen with a real Awe factor.

So, is it confirmed that the recently unlocked troop expansions are add-on only? Are they not actually being included with any of the pledge levels?

Also, Prodos, I was wondering if you could answer another question I have about the limited edition rulebook? Do you know what kind of binding it'll have? I'm actually asking on behalf of my brother. He's interested in pledging at the Necromutant level as well, but he was concerned about the book's binding. Glued bindings don't tend to last particularly long and for something like a rulebook that's going to be getting a lot of use, it'd be great if it could have a sewn binding so that it could last longer.

Cergorach wrote:

 praetor24 wrote:

My opinion is that you should be hitting us with updates before we hit the stretch goals. The other way around does not work well, since you spend much more easily money, if you know beforehand what you 're going to get. And by updates I mean renders, not just concept art. And if possible, upon hitting the goal getting some sprues/actual models views.

I don't mean to complain, but if you have a look at the other more successful KS', they had ready models pics or renders at least for the first couple of their stretch goals. I know that this campaign is a marathon, but part of its success will lie on the continuous engagement of early pledgers like myself.

I have to agree here. Reaper Bones did it very well, alternating free bonus minis with pay for add-ons, not to mention announcing at least two stretch goals in advance (with the prices for the add-ons). If you've got a couple of hundred folks buying add-ons so that that the actual add-on unlock is achieved that's a couple of thousand pounds right there, when you hit enough people, each add-on might easily pay for the next stretch goal. Using free stuff is a good tool for getting more folks interested in a good deal.

Also note in each add-on the actual MSRP price so that folks know they are getting a good deal in the KS.

A KS needs to be a good deal to generate a lot of interest. The company wants to make and sell the product and we want the product, true. But the company has the opportunity to directly sell to us instead of selling through a distributor and a retailer, that's a LOT of extra money for the company (easily twice as much as they get from selling to a distributer), do it's not strange to expect a good deal for the folks turning over a lot of cash for a product they won't see for months (with a real possibility of it never showing up at all).

I'm curious how the -1GBP on RRP will work out. Will that make the 7GBP boxes cost only 2GBP at the 100k GBP stretch goal?

I think in fairness, that some of that just isn't possible with this Kickstarter. Not so much with the freebies, anyway. Reaper owns Reaper miniatures after all, and already had many of the Bones sculpts completed in metal form. Adding freebies probably isn't an option for Prodos - maybe at best a final "thank you" figure (like Mongoose's Walter) and/or a Kickstarter Exclusive or two. You do have a very good point about showing 2 stretch goals ahead though - it seems to work well in CMON Kickstarters to get people chasing after the next goals after the current goal - two things to aim for, if you will. Also working on drawing new pledgers in.

As my good friend Duncan Idaho has pointed out, there is a fine line between offering great value in a KS and pissing off the retailers who you want to carry your product. Prodos has to get it just right to have the price where it will sell a lot of units and get the WarZone community Kickstarted - which will make more customers come to the store to buy the game from the FLGS. DreadBall did a pretty good job of this. I don't think Prodos is there yet when many people are still saying they may as well wait for retail. - and not only the huge discounters, either! They do need to offer at the very least better value than 10% off w/free postage UK places. Still, there's a long time left on this one. I also agree that they should show the MSRP alongside the KS prices.

Finally, a good point made about the whole "-1GBP on RRP" thing. I have no idea what they're talking about or how it works. Result? I'm ignoring the whole aspect. I don't have time or the inclination to try and figure it out. They need to explain whatever the scheme is in clear, concise terms.

 Mathieu Raymond wrote:
Hopefully it won't be so "small" once it's in our hands!

That's what she said!

Warzone Resurrection wrote:

 praetor24 wrote:
Well, 40k stretch goal is now past us. 45k has kind of a lame reward (dice, who needs dice ?), but 50k is the real deal.

Yes! Big Thanks! and we have something special at 50k! Not only Old/New Heroes!

Looking forward to it! And am I the only one who's happy about the dice, I mean the real reward is the relaunch of this awesome game
with new awesome miniatures and with a rules-set and game dynamics which sounds really promising !

Also, the Vulcan wip looks great but His Master's Voice suggestions seems sound!

@Azazel
I think there will be quite some rude awakenings when peopel with their steal deals want to get the minis at their local shops and have to realize that they are boycotting them. That´s what already can be said about Darklands in our neck of the woods.

And it´s also an unhealthy direction TT-KS are moving. People are more or less conditioned now that KS are huge discount-deals. I wonder if they already have forgotten what happened to Mealstrom Games and that big discounts always come with a price. There will be a crash quite soon, probably even in the first half of 2013. Let´s hope that KS that REALLY are about games that never would made it into production without the support of the community will then move to the fforefront and not the ones that offer the biggest discounts.

I completely agree. Prodos Games are a small company using Kickstarter to help the fans more than anything! They don't have to run Kickstarter, but it helps push the project forwards at a faster rate and generate interest. People can wait until it is released at their FLGS, but that might not guarantee certain things getting designed for quite some time.

It's a hard argument, because of course you want to support your FLGS and you will be able to by helping them sell the products they get when it is released by running demos using the minis you got from Kickstarter!

That´s also the reason Godslayer does offer some deals but not such extreme deals that no shops are willing to carry them after the KS.

 Azazelx wrote:

I think in fairness, that some of that just isn't possible with this Kickstarter. Not so much with the freebies, anyway. Reaper owns Reaper miniatures after all, and already had many of the Bones sculpts completed in metal form. Adding freebies probably isn't an option for Prodos - maybe at best a final "thank you" figure (like Mongoose's Walter) and/or a Kickstarter Exclusive or two. You do have a very good point about showing 2 stretch goals ahead though - it seems to work well in CMON Kickstarters to get people chasing after the next goals after the current goal - two things to aim for, if you will. Also working on drawing new pledgers in.

In fairness, Reaper also license the Pathfinder minis from Paizo that were included for 'free' in the KS. And with the CMON kickstarters, they are also a third party that gets paid from the KS funds. It's in Paradox's interest to sell a lot through the KS, because a KS involves less then 10% of the income to a third party, when you sell through retail channels, 50%-60% goes to third parties.

 Azazelx wrote:

As my good friend Duncan Idaho has pointed out, there is a fine line between offering great value in a KS and pissing off the retailers who you want to carry your product. Prodos has to get it just right to have the price where it will sell a lot of units and get the WarZone community Kickstarted - which will make more customers come to the store to buy the game from the FLGS. DreadBall did a pretty good job of this. I don't think Prodos is there yet when many people are still saying they may as well wait for retail. - and not only the huge discounters, either! They do need to offer at the very least better value than 10% off w/free postage UK places. Still, there's a long time left on this one. I also agree that they should show the MSRP alongside the KS prices.

When retailers start financing companies months in advance before the product becomes available, they have will have a say in how a KS should function. I've heard a lot of complaining about retailers not being happy with companies like Reaper and their Bones KS. But do you really think that Reaper Bones has less then 18,000 customers world wide? If they do, they have a really big problem. KS supporters are a very small part of the customer base, to be honest if all of the customers would go through Kickstarter, the companies doing those KS would love it (because it makes a hell of a lot more money then selling through retailers). If retailers don't get that folks pledging for KS are only a very small part of their customer base, then they are idiots. There are tons of people in the world that, either don't know about the KS, don't trust KS, want to wait until they see the actual game, don't have access to a credit card, or just don't have the money at the time for the KS.

Heck, for the Dreamforge KS I got a squad of four 'titans' for a good deal, but when they show up later this week and show them off on a local Dutch forum I'm certain that therell be a lot of folks very interested in the stuff. So I e-mailed the local webstore (I hate travelling hours to a gamestore) I do a lot of business with, and their regular distributors don't have the DFG stuff, but they also said that such a new line isn't the priority and other more popular/mainstream lines do have the priority, they can only spend money once and they would rather spend it on product they know will move quickly (and I can't blame them for that). I'm now e-mailing WGF for a list of European distributors so that I don't have to direct my forum mates to foreign webshops to get their plastic fix. So what I'm trying to say is that a KS is a safety net and a marketing tool that also benefits the local stores, folks that took a big risk, got a big reward early that they use to get folks who didn't want or couldn't take the risk to spend money at the product at a later time, the save money is on local game stores and webstores.

Duncan_Idaho wrote:
I think there will be quite some rude awakenings when peopel with their steal deals want to get the minis at their local shops and have to realize that they are boycotting them. That´s what already can be said about Darklands in our neck of the woods.

And it´s also an unhealthy direction TT-KS are moving. People are more or less conditioned now that KS are huge discount-deals. I wonder if they already have forgotten what happened to Mealstrom Games and that big discounts always come with a price. There will be a crash quite soon, probably even in the first half of 2013. Let´s hope that KS that REALLY are about games that never would made it into production without the support of the community will then move to the fforefront and not the ones that offer the biggest discounts.

Darklands KS = Mierce = Maelstrom Games

The reason that stores might be boycotting Darklands is simply because they don't trust a company that has a very, very bad track record.

And using MSG as the example for why discounts are bad and unsustainable is strange. The reason MSG failed is because they spend tons of money on things that didn't have anything to do with their core business, namely a gaming hall and a very expensive line of miniatures "Darklands". Then when their business collapsed they moved their miniatures line to another company under the same ownership as MSG with a very doubtful transaction. Just because Enron went broke doesn't mean that energy companies are bad business. Heck there are tons and tons of game stores that go broke, for no other reason then that they mismanaged their store. And don't start by blaming Internet webshops, this was happening way before there gaming Internet webstores.

It's simple, if you really want a product and your local games store refuses to sell it or just takes to long to stock it, you buy it somewhere else, be that another brick and mortar store, a webshop, or even directly from the manufacturer. How do you think I get my 15/18mm miniatures? I order directly from Rebel Miniatures and Micropanzer.

MSGs problems where not only their daughter companies. They got blacklisted in the past for undercutting percentages that are ment to protect smaller shops.

And the reason many won´t carry Mierce around here is not mainly because of the MSG debacle but BECAUSE the are carrying Mierce products already and now are sitting on minis they can´t sell cause the KS prieces were sometimes as low as their retailer prices. They will try to get rid of them somehow and stopp carrying Mierce from then on.

And MSG is a very good example for shoppers not always acting in a way that is in their best interest. Even when it was clear that the company was ripping off people they still tried to make a steal deal. If this mentality stays dominant it will hurt the TT business more than it will help.

Also it depends on when in the life-cycle of a game the KS is started and what it offers. If you offer too much you really will hurt further sales.

Prodos - do you plan to release (at some point in the future) Dark Legion cultists, i.e. Acolytes or Initiates ? I'd love to see your take on Billy the Heretic (his signature haircut and all)
Also regarding KS, dice are all well and cool but you may want to show some sneak peaks from higher stretch goals as per Agustin's suggestions from previous page, it would help to keep momentum going.

 agustin wrote:

Warzone Resurrection wrote:

 praetor24 wrote:
Well, 40k stretch goal is now past us. 45k has kind of a lame reward (dice, who needs dice ?), but 50k is the real deal.

Yes! Big Thanks! and we have something special at 50k! Not only Old/New Heroes!

I'd recommend showing whatever the something special is at 50K at 45K as a preview of what happens when the project hits 50k. Give people a reason to want to get there, not a surprise after the fact. You want them to tell all the people they know, post about it at various places and generally do what they can to help the project get to the next stretch goal. So show what it will be before the goal is hit, not after.

And then when 50k is hit, show the extra thing for 55K that you haven't shown yet. Then when that is hit, show the surprise thing if 60k is hit and so on.

Build momentum, don't surprise after the fact.

I couldn't agree more with you, in fact if you check the previous pages you will see several posts of mine elaborating on the matter. I posted this on their KS page

My opinion is that you should be hitting us with updates before we hit the stretch goals. The other way around does not work well, since you spend much more easily money, if you know beforehand what you 're going to get. And by updates I mean renders, not just concept art. And if possible, upon hitting the goal getting some sprues/actual models views.
I don't mean to complain, but if you have a look at the other more successful KS', they had ready models pics or renders at least for the first couple of their stretch goals. I know that this campaign is a marathon, but part of its success will lie on the continuous engagement of early pledgers like myself.

and I received this answer:

Correct me if I am wrong, but Kickstarter is meant to allow a company to 'kickstart' their project, if we had it all up front, why would we and more importantly ethically should we use kickstarter. Surely if we could do it already, why do we need or use Kickstarter. I personally (mark) feel that the concept of Kickstarter has mutated in recent months, we at Prodos want to use it as it was designed. It may cost us some investment, but our approach to our company and the position it fits in the market has to have an ethically right position (we are not a company, for example, that wants to steal business from the big boys, why, equally should we cheat you the customer or the concept of Kickstarter, by using it as a pre-order service. That is not the nature of KS). As such when we hit the stretched goals we will invest in the projects they release.

Since I had already repeated my points too many times in this forum, I did not bother doing it also in their KS page. If anything, I do not want to "spoil" their comments section with something that might be perceived as negative criticism, etc. The issue remains though and it has even been acknowledged here in Dakka by the guy who administers the "Warzone Resurrection".

Again, I am not saying this, because they are doing something bad -quite the contrary-, I am just offering my thoughts about how they can do it better. I do not want freebies or discounts, I want to see nice concepts that will spread the hype!

I'd imagine posting ahead would create difficulties. Everything is being done almost in real-time so that customers can give feedback. Again, having 2 people on it part time means that keeping track of what people are saying can be quite hard! Slow and steady wins the race and when something is available to post early, they generally will (i.e. the Mortificators).

 rob_alderman wrote:
I'd imagine posting ahead would create difficulties. Everything is being done almost in real-time so that customers can give feedback. Again, having 2 people on it part time means that keeping track of what people are saying can be quite hard! Slow and steady wins the race and when something is available to post early, they generally will (i.e. the Mortificators).

Sure, but feedback has been given and can be given only on concepts/renders already done. So, showing beforehand kind of helps this modus operandi.

By the way, I think that for all you guys interested in the project, paying a visit to their facebook forums is a must. This is where all the voting/feedback interaction takes place. Check them out here: https://www.facebook.com/groups/121888887983248/

Oh awesome! An angry reply.

Cergorach wrote:

In fairness, Reaper also license the Pathfinder minis from Paizo that were included for 'free' in the KS. And with the CMON kickstarters, they are also a third party that gets paid from the KS funds. It's in Paradox's interest to sell a lot through the KS, because a KS involves less then 10% of the income to a third party, when you sell through retail channels, 50%-60% goes to third parties.

The Pathfinder figures were a tiny proportion of the Bones KS as opposed to the entire licence, and Reaper is in a very good position to negotiate with Paizo. I wonder how much the shout-out from Reaper helped their subsequent KS in turn? As for Paradox, it all comes down to the nitty gritty of their licence ageements, which neither you nor I are privvy to. I'd suggest that it's unlikely that Paradox simply take a percentage of the gross sales and even less likely that you know what their business agreements look like. CMON are almost like an agency/partnership. Probably much closer to the Dragon's Den guys on single projects in terms of teamwork and profit sharing.

Cergorach wrote:

When retailers start financing companies months in advance before the product becomes available, they have will have a say in how a KS should function. I've heard a lot of complaining about retailers not being happy with companies like Reaper and their Bones KS. But do you really think that Reaper Bones has less then 18,000 customers world wide? If they do, they have a really big problem. KS supporters are a very small part of the customer base, to be honest if all of the customers would go through Kickstarter, the companies doing those KS would love it (because it makes a hell of a lot more money then selling through retailers). If retailers don't get that folks pledging for KS are only a very small part of their customer base, then they are idiots. There are tons of people in the world that, either don't know about the KS, don't trust KS, want to wait until they see the actual game, don't have access to a credit card, or just don't have the money at the time for the KS.

Again. Reaper is big and established. They are one of the top dogs in Miniatures outside of GW/PP/Battlefront. Every FLGS I've been into carries some Reaper stuff. Prodos, at this point, are nobody and have produced nothing. Reaper is in thousands of stores with an established fanbase. Prodos have nothing in any store in the world and WarZone is a decade-dormant licence. While I agree that KS supporters are a very small part of the potential customer base, retailers are indeed cautious about whether to stock new stuff because of the risk of being stuck with old non-moving stock.

Cergorach wrote:

Heck, for the Dreamforge KS I got a squad of four 'titans' for a good deal, but when they show up later this week and show them off on a local Dutch forum I'm certain that therell be a lot of folks very interested in the stuff. So I e-mailed the local webstore (I hate travelling hours to a gamestore) I do a lot of business with, and their regular distributors don't have the DFG stuff, but they also said that such a new line isn't the priority and other more popular/mainstream lines do have the priority, they can only spend money once and they would rather spend it on product they know will move quickly (and I can't blame them for that). I'm now e-mailing WGF for a list of European distributors so that I don't have to direct my forum mates to foreign webshops to get their plastic fix. So what I'm trying to say is that a KS is a safety net and a marketing tool that also benefits the local stores, folks that took a big risk, got a big reward early that they use to get folks who didn't want or couldn't take the risk to spend money at the product at a later time, the save money is on local game stores and webstores.

You're pretty much making my (and Duncan's) argument for us here. If the local retailers think the market for X has already been wiped by a KS, then they probably won't stock that product.

Duncan_Idaho wrote:
I think there will be quite some rude awakenings when peopel with their steal deals want to get the minis at their local shops and have to realize that they are boycotting them. That´s what already can be said about Darklands in our neck of the woods.

And it´s also an unhealthy direction TT-KS are moving. People are more or less conditioned now that KS are huge discount-deals. I wonder if they already have forgotten what happened to Mealstrom Games and that big discounts always come with a price. There will be a crash quite soon, probably even in the first half of 2013. Let´s hope that KS that REALLY are about games that never would made it into production without the support of the community will then move to the fforefront and not the ones that offer the biggest discounts.

See, I don't entirely agree with Duncan, either. Maelstrom's discounts really weren't that big. 10% is pretty much standard, and many of the US guys seem to offer more than double that as standard. We know MG went under because of a combination of GW pulling the plug, and Rob Lane's lack of honesty, along with their other expenses, as Cergorach rightly points out. The main thing was the hit they took as a result of GW. For me to risk my money at this stage, Kickstarters pretty much have to offer a significant deal. The shine is well and truly gone on the whole thing for me, and Prodos simply isn't offering me anything better than I can get from a standard UK-based webstore right now. For all the risk involved, it's not for me at this stage. They have yet to hit that sweet spot between making it worth my money for the risk, the wait and the seemingly inevitable 3-6 month delay on one side - and pissing off the retailers on the other.

Dreadball seems to have done a good job. Lots of retailers have it in stock, and they managed to get a community going as well while still offering a very attractive KS deal - which is a lot of what got the community off and running. Dropping a couple of dozen resin figures with a rulebook and an old, dead licence into stores (if you can get them to stock it) is a far cry from having a bunch of people actively playing and promoting it in your store from day 1.

Cergorach wrote:

It's simple, if you really want a product and your local games store refuses to sell it or just takes to long to stock it, you buy it somewhere else, be that another brick and mortar store, a webshop, or even directly from the manufacturer. How do you think I get my 15/18mm miniatures? I order directly from Rebel Miniatures and Micropanzer.

See, I buy everything online anyway. I don't have a FLGS that answers my needs in terms of price or range.

MSG discounts were sometimes more than 20% depending on the range.

I want to get into this, I do. But I can't justify to myself paying more than I would by a decent amount via an online distributor and paying shipping (which is free or ridiculously low) to a company I don't know. Even the higher pledges don't offer more than 1-2 GBP off the earlier kickstarter price. Basically there is little incentive to kickstart higher and the cost of the lower is to close to retail.

Quantitiy deals are fine. It guarantees enough purchases to ensure profits at the price given. It's something they should look at.

The models do look good so far though.

Crowdfunding is not meant to be a discount to YOU. It's meant to enable companies to start developing, producing, publishing, working etc on a product.
It could actually be more expensive to pledge.. that is totally fine with the idea of crowdfunding.

If you like a concept you should at least throw something in the tip jar. Prodos is offering a pdf of the basic rules at that level where most companies just give you their thanks.

Definately.

I've spoken to the guys about it and they really have tried to give you the best deal they can without going bankrupt! It's not about saving loads and loads of money.

However, you may end up saving postage if you pledge high enough, or even split a pledge between several people.

 Azazelx wrote:

You're pretty much making my (and Duncan's) argument for us here. If the local retailers think the market for X has already been wiped by a KS, then they probably won't stock that product.

That's actually not my argument, the retailer in question actually doesn't think that. He just has a limited amount of cash/shelf space to spend on inventory, and according to him an established popular miniature line like Warmachine/Hordes and Infinity is a surer bet then some product line most folks have never heard of (Dreamforge). Do you really think that a new Warzone product line would be dealt with differently by any but the biggest (web)shops? Warzone crashed trice! (WZ 2e, WZ Ultimate, WZ 45mm) So without some external fans to get a player base interested I seriously doubt that many (web) shops would actually stock the new Warzone line (if they have any idea of what happened before).

 Azazelx wrote:

See, I don't entirely agree with Duncan, either. Maelstrom's discounts really weren't that big. 10% is pretty much standard, and many of the US guys seem to offer more than double that as standard. We know MG went under because of a combination of GW pulling the plug, and Rob Lane's lack of honesty, along with their other expenses, as Cergorach rightly points out. The main thing was the hit they took as a result of GW. For me to risk my money at this stage, Kickstarters pretty much have to offer a significant deal. The shine is well and truly gone on the whole thing for me, and Prodos simply isn't offering me anything better than I can get from a standard UK-based webstore right now. For all the risk involved, it's not for me at this stage. They have yet to hit that sweet spot between making it worth my money for the risk, the wait and the seemingly inevitable 3-6 month delay on one side - and pissing off the retailers on the other.

The two webshops I buy from generally give a 20% discount and no shipping when I buy enough (Wayland Games in the UK and Tabletop Miniature Games in the Netherlands) and both are doing very well. GW also fncked with Wayland Games and they are still in business.

I have no problem with helping a (new) company launch a (new) product line, how much I'll pay depends on how much I want it. But it was clear from the start that Warzone:Ressurection was going to be made, no matter whether I would pledge or not. So Prodos (and others) needs to incentive me to pledge any money, because there are no benefits to pledging, same release date, pricing is more expensive then what I would pay on launch from most shops (mostly due to postage costs from the KS). Now, if I read the KS pages and the comments here by Prodos correctly, things will change when the project reaches the higher stretch goals, so that should solve things. But in that regard the KS is still quite unclear, so for now I only pledged for the 1GBP pdf, but that is also due to me needing to scrap together some funds ;-)

 Azazelx wrote:

See, I buy everything online anyway. I don't have a FLGS that answers my needs in terms of price or range.

Me neither, I've had many a frustration with my FLGS spending 1.5 to 2 hours in public transportation (dodging slow tourists) and the store just not having what they are supposed to carry. These days I live away even further and it would take 3-4 hours, not to mention the far higher price of the bus/metro/train these days.

 rob_alderman wrote:
Definately.

I've spoken to the guys about it and they really have tried to give you the best deal they can without going bankrupt! It's not about saving loads and loads of money.

However, you may end up saving postage if you pledge high enough, or even split a pledge between several people.

Are they going to be direct sales only? I find it hard to believe they'd go bankrupt if they aren't. Because if they're running such a high margin that they can't discount the sets by more than 15% when they are the team producing them then I worry about their stability. It only increases my concerns. They already have 3 of the starters worth of models and molds ready to go in resin so it's not even an excuse for the original sets that they need the funds to create them and build molds.

And like I've said before. Buying multiples (guarenteed sales) should impact the pricing. Some kickstarters have done very well without a sweet spot bid like CMoN. And no one is really expecting CMoN/Mantic/Reaper level rewards here. Just asking not to pay more for items than what they will realistically retail for.

@RoninXiC

I agree that crowd funding doesn't have to be a discount to me but I'd argue that it's most effective when it is.

I'm interested in models. It's doubtful I'll play Warzone but the figures could find a home in any number of the miniature games I play or just in my case after being painted. I'm part of that new market they are trying to capture. I don't have fond memories of 3 decades ago when Warzone was around. The models are very nice and multi-part. I'm probably going to wind up with quite a few of them. Doesn't mean that I'm willing to pay above retail to pre-order (which is still what we're doing, don't think we're not) a product from a company I've never heard of that is slated to be out in June anyway.

praetor24 wrote:
and I received this answer:

Correct me if I am wrong, but Kickstarter is meant to allow a company to 'kickstart' their project, if we had it all up front, why would we and more importantly ethically should we use kickstarter. Surely if we could do it already, why do we need or use Kickstarter. I personally (mark) feel that the concept of Kickstarter has mutated in recent months, we at Prodos want to use it as it was designed. It may cost us some investment, but our approach to our company and the position it fits in the market has to have an ethically right position (we are not a company, for example, that wants to steal business from the big boys, why, equally should we cheat you the customer or the concept of Kickstarter, by using it as a pre-order service. That is not the nature of KS). As such when we hit the stretched goals we will invest in the projects they release.

Hey Prodos!

Showing the next stretch goal before it gets there has nothing to do with using Kickstarter in an unethical fashion.

in fact it's more ethical to show what people are pledging towards. You'll be giving more information about what you will do with the money and more transparency = a demonstration of better ethics.

Again, I am not saying this, because they are doing something bad -quite the contrary-, I am just offering my thoughts about how they can do it better. I do not want freebies or discounts, I want to see nice concepts that will spread the hype!

Exactly. Keeping surprise additions when a stretch goal is hit is not necessarily a bad thing. It just doesn't give me anything at all to email my friends or post on facebook about. Because by the time it's unveiled, we already have it as available. There's no reason for me to do my best to get others involved because we're already there. Sure, there might be some great surprise at the next stretch goal, but an unkown is hardly something I can email a buddy about and go "wouldn't it be awesome if can get this!" about.

Prodos elected to go with a 60 day Kickstarter, which means there is a much, much higher chance of losing participant momentum in the middle. Anything that helps keep people talking about it and gives people an incentive to tell their friends and spread the word will prove more and more valuable when day 30 comes and there's still a month to go.

Yet another update



and the link http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/513277403/mutant-chronicles-warzone-resurrection/posts/409421?ref=email&show_token=59abf232377ee611

I must share it with you!



@agustin , thanks for feedback, we will take in consideration.

Awesome minis!

Maaaybe you could crank up the resoution of those pictures a bit? It'd be great to see some more details.

 Warzone Resurrection wrote:
I must share it with you!



@agustin , thanks for feedback, we will take in consideration.

26'' too late, mate

Cant wait to see that painted