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My criticism:
1 - Shoulder Pads look really bulky and hardly actually cover the shoulder
2 - Lack of thigh armor and cod piece
3 - Rolled up sleeves are kind of tacky but could just be waiting for gloves to be added.

I think the helmet and shin guards look great! Good start guys my personal opinion is keep as close to the concepts but when it comes to the sprues the more options we have to customize our mini's the better.

first post on dakka, just for warzone
So I read the rules and i just don't know what's going on with engaging and "the engage"... I'm able to move twice my speed and get bonus to strength for one action point, but need another point to make the actual attack? How far can I move when I use 2 points for "the engage"? Can I make one "free" attack at the end of this action? Maybe someone can explain that to me.

Further I'm concerned that there is no limit to resource cards in a deck. I didn't playtest the rules jet, but couldn't it create a huge imbalance if one player is lucky and draws some more ressource cards soon, but the other player has to live with his initial three cards? I'm really looking forward to the gameexperience tabletop plus cards, if it's not to much of a gamble. From a gutfeeling i would prefer a fixed set of ressource cards. It's already a game based on dice. I don't want the need to rely on my luck with cards to much, too

Are the two players supposed to play with an even number of cards?

Thats it for now, hope you can answer some of my questions.

rhavien wrote:
first post on dakka, just for warzone
So I read the rules and i just don't know what's going on with engaging and "the engage"... I'm able to move twice my speed and get bonus to strength for one action point, but need another point to make the actual attack? How far can I move when I use 2 points for "the engage"? Can I make one "free" attack at the end of this action? Maybe someone can explain that to me.

Yes, you need another action for the attack. You can't take the same action twice, though so double movement is as far as you can go.

Further I'm concerned that there is no limit to resource cards in a deck. I didn't playtest the rules jet, but couldn't it create a huge imbalance if one player is lucky and draws some more ressource cards soon, but the other player has to live with his initial three cards? I'm really looking forward to the gameexperience tabletop plus cards, if it's not to much of a gamble. From a gutfeeling i would prefer a fixed set of ressource cards. It's already a game based on dice. I don't want the need to rely on my luck with cards to much, too

That imbalance depends on how big of an impact the cards have. According to Prodos, it will be tops +20%. So being lucky with the dice is still more important than being lucky with the cards.

Are the two players supposed to play with an even number of cards?

It's up to the player how to build his deck. So no.

rhavien wrote:
first post on dakka, just for warzone
So I read the rules and i just don't know what's going on with engaging and "the engage"... I'm able to move twice my speed and get bonus to strength for one action point, but need another point to make the actual attack? How far can I move when I use 2 points for "the engage"? Can I make one "free" attack at the end of this action? Maybe someone can explain that to me.

Further I'm concerned that there is no limit to resource cards in a deck. I didn't playtest the rules jet, but couldn't it create a huge imbalance if one player is lucky and draws some more ressource cards soon, but the other player has to live with his initial three cards? I'm really looking forward to the gameexperience tabletop plus cards, if it's not to much of a gamble. From a gutfeeling i would prefer a fixed set of ressource cards. It's already a game based on dice. I don't want the need to rely on my luck with cards to much, too

Are the two players supposed to play with an even number of cards?

Thats it for now, hope you can answer some of my questions.

Hi there, the v1.1 will have Engage as Basic action therefore, you spend one action to Engage and 2nd to attack.
At this moment rules state that Engage models always have one action, therefore you can read this : once I Engage I gain 1 action for attack.
You can play only one Resource card every turn, also before the game start you draw 5 cards if you don't like them you can exchange for another 5 that should be enough to have some resource cards on hand.
Well the cards only boost your chance of succeed for max 20%, they can be countered by enemy cards.
Not much luck factor here as there is no "one-kill-auto-win" cards in game, simple situational cards

Give the game a go and let us know on our Facebook/ Beta Forum (soon will be launched).



.

Thanks for the quick response. I'll definetly give the rules a try as they are. If the card effects won't do that much of an impact (and hopefully no cheese combos) I'm fine with it.
I really like the new style and miniatures so far except i share the same opinion as has been already mentioned for the new hussar renders (odd shoulderpads, no room for the face). And I would like to see some more difference btw. Hussars and venus rangers. You want them to look realistic, but between techzombies, cyborgs and the brotherhood guys they look a tad to unspectacular to me.

Looooooong time lurker roused from my slumber here...

How about these Shoulder pads?



I don't know why Prodos doesn't go with perfecting a previous established ruleset. Instead of experimenting with a game known and loved as a tried and tested skirmish game to this forced mini/card game. If anything even if the cards were knocked to the background to reduce the randomisation effect and the pain in the posterior of hand management as well as playing a miniature game - why does it need to be this complex? What am I not getting?

The deviation from the pre-FFG imagery... I'l' admit the early miniatures are rubbish but mainly due to the 1:1 scale sculpting techniques now with the new tech we have the ability to see Bonner's Venusian Ranger/Max Steiner straight from the art work onto the table-top.

My opinion if you want a new game invent one - I'll be the first to state I may be a little developmentally delayed in understanding the changes or that one small point that might inspire me to change my mind, but that aside - There's really no need to mess with the recipe... it wasn't the rules or the figures that killed those several previous occasions...

47 days to go prodos - pull your finger out or my pledge is being set to ZERO

Have you tried the new beta rules? The game is actually a lot of fun, I never played the old rule set but i did read the v1 books and it looked great however
I can say the new rules are fun.

Yes, had several games with proxies - I wouldn't post without giving it a go. It's a massive departure from previous editions (along the lines of FFG's Abortive CMG - dark soul curse their name for eternity) This is what I feel killed it then... and leaves no room for future development without a complete overhaul or knocking this back to foundations and starting again. This is depressing since the miniatures have some promise but the rules break it. Since times running out and I having difficulty seeing a solution without reverting to traditional multiple action point allowance system consigning the game within a game 'Res' rubbish as far into the background as possible... this 'Cartel' pledge is about to be put out of my misery before I'm stuck with a rubbish game with better miniatures than 40k

 Carnuscaedes wrote:
I don't know why Prodos doesn't go with perfecting a previous established ruleset. Instead of experimenting with a game known and loved as a tried and tested skirmish game to this forced mini/card game. If anything even if the cards were knocked to the background to reduce the randomisation effect and the pain in the posterior of hand management as well as playing a miniature game - why does it need to be this complex? What am I not getting?

Which established ruleset is that exactly. 1st Edition and 2nd Edition are actually quite different aside from well, the most basic concept of the action system (and the use of a D20 roll-under system). Between those two editions an innumerable amount of changes occurred, some of them were horrible, some of them weren't. Ultimate made loads of sweeping changes as well (double-blind deployment, the assault system, weapons were changed completely from the botched 2nd Edition version but still far more complex than 1st Edition, the survival/terrain system that caused a lot of wonkiness with several units unless you always used and enforced it, and many other changes). The Warzone system has never really settled in any one place to long, so which version would Prodos be "perfecting"? As far as I can see they scaled back to 1st Edition and actually streamlined a lot of cruft. They removed the bracing action but kept mobile heavy weapons not being as effective as stationary. They kept individual activation but removed a default action to tighten up the action economy which was broken from day one (abuse of move+shoot+move, multi-fire actions punished the guy who maneuvered and moved in to a good position instead of planting his boots and letting rip at a target, the aim action was pointless, heavy weapons with high numbers of shots were top dogs, etc.).

Hell, the basic rules themselves are more streamlined than they have been in years. The card mechanics aren't really all that complex either, certainly easier to use and reference than 2nd Edition's mess of weapon rules where number of shots, damage and to-hit bonus vacilated over 4-5 range bands. As a long time player I can definitely feel the 1st Edition DNA in this iteration and it is shaping up to be my favourite version yet. Is it perfect? Not yet, but it is close. The armour system could use a reduction in steps and either add 10 to all AVs and simply make an armour roll AV-Strength of the weapon, or weapon strengths are expressed as their modifier without the conversion step. The resource mechanic is still something I'm not 100% about, but I don't hate it either. And I am still waiting to see if there is a reaction mechanic added in in a later version.

But Warzone has never really been a concrete ruleset across its many editions, and seeing a team finally start from 1st Edition and tweak and balance that has this fan giddy about the possibilities.

The deviation from the pre-FFG imagery... I'l' admit the early miniatures are rubbish but mainly due to the 1:1 scale sculpting techniques now with the new tech we have the ability to see Bonner's Venusian Ranger/Max Steiner straight from the art work onto the table-top.

To each their own on the aesthetics. I like the Bauhaus redesign (and again, just look at the differences between the Hussars of Mutant Chronicles, WZ 1st and WZ 2nd; massive changes between them). Of course this does ignore that Brotherhood and Dark Legion are almost pitch perfect (oddly, despite having some of the worst minis in previous versions, their art has aged the best). Cybertronic is a reconciliation of the various iterations of their aesthetic from the Mutant Chronicles RPG to the darker and more industrial Cybertronic of 2nd Edition. The aesthetic of pre-FFG Mutant Chronicles/Warzone was very rarely as unified as some remember. The Brotherhood and Dark Legion probably had the most artwork and conceptual drawings that stayed the same over time, the other factions received a facelift in aesthetics and even background every single new iteration of the game.

My opinion if you want a new game invent one - I'll be the first to state I may be a little developmentally delayed in understanding the changes or that one small point that might inspire me to change my mind, but that aside - There's really no need to mess with the recipe... it wasn't the rules or the figures that killed those several previous occasions...

47 days to go prodos - pull your finger out or my pledge is being set to ZERO

It is statements like this that seem to ignore that Prodos are using quite a lot of the Warzone property. The whole of the Dark Legion and Brotherhood lines and the basic aesthetics of a great many other troops. They are starting from a base of 1st Edition instead of a hybrid of 1st and 2nd like Ultimate Warzone. They aren't messing with the recipe anymore than Target themselves did when putting out 2nd Edition (and erased a lot of background material, retconning loads and loads of 1st Edition and Mutant Chronicles background). If anything, Prodos are a little less avante garde than Target was by going back to what appears to be the roots of Mutant Chronicles and 1st Edition for inspriation.

But if it isn't what you want after 47 days then you are well within your rights to drop out. But as a fan of the current direction that starts from a modified 1st Edition, this is exactly the version of Warzone I've always wanted. To put it in 40k terms, it would be like GW going back and making 7th Edition a reworked, streamlined and balanced version of 2nd Edition instead of evolving from 3rd Edition and adding in bits of 2nd to entice nostalgia-freaks back in. Resurrection seems to be keeping the relative simplicity of 1st Edition but is cutting down on things like army-killing heroes and the like while adding in a bit of a spin of their own (which is really evocative of of the weird and wacky special rules of 1st Edition that later editions dropped entirely).

If Prodos keeps this up then they can be assured that I will keep upping my pledge (and continue buying after the KS is long over). But I can see why some people who enjoyed 2nd Edition or even a hybridized approach like Ultimate better would be rubbed the wrong way. But lean'n'mean 1st Edition is my sweet spot.

Is it because I'm not a native English speaker, but the above post is really hard to understand?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Not yours, Ronin, the one above


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And what the hell just happened? The Kickstarter fell almost 2000£ in a few hours.

Two of the three brothers appear to have either downgraded or dropped entirely. Oh well, no pleasing everyone.

Edit - Looking at the backer numbers, they didn't go down, so they must have downgraded instead of dropping. They may not have been able to support a £2000 pledge anymore (perhaps it was a group effort?) or they may just not have been that enamoured with the rules and decided to back at a low level. Oh well, conjecture about the motivations of people and how they spend their money is funny like that. They were an unexpected boon on a slow day and they left as quickly as they appeared. Might take until Friday or Saturday to reach £60k now, unless we get two people who were hoping to pledge at the Three Brothers level but missed the bus.

If you missed out, now is the time to pounce!

Edit 2 - I'm bad at reading, only one of the Three Brothers dropped their pledge level back, two are still sitting pretty in their pledge.

I'm generally good with the card rules but I admit I'd probably prefer the removal of resources and the addition of a trait on characters that allows them to draw extra cards each turn. Gives more variety in design as you can have characters who suck at drawing cards but have awesome combat stats and visa versa. Makes deck building simpler too and clutters the table a bit less.

 Carnuscaedes wrote:
Yes, had several games with proxies - I wouldn't post without giving it a go. It's a massive departure from previous editions (along the lines of FFG's Abortive CMG - dark soul curse their name for eternity) This is what I feel killed it then... and leaves no room for future development without a complete overhaul or knocking this back to foundations and starting again. This is depressing since the miniatures have some promise but the rules break it. Since times running out and I having difficulty seeing a solution without reverting to traditional multiple action point allowance system consigning the game within a game 'Res' rubbish as far into the background as possible... this 'Cartel' pledge is about to be put out of my misery before I'm stuck with a rubbish game with better miniatures than 40k

I agree with most of this.

I’m not going on another tangent I know some of us here are super big supporters… not tryin to stir the hornets’ nest

I will say this. I liked the old rules, the ones that came in the target games boxed set… lots of very cool solid stuff there, I don’t care for the cards.
Why?

This for me is very very simple and will make sense if you (Prodos and Others) will just listen.

suspension of disbelief.

Some of these cards totally break the “suspension of disbelief” and this is something very important to gaming.
An example. I place a certain card… now my guns magically turn to plasma… this never happened in WarZone before. It also doesn’t make sense.
A better example… in a game now, you could have an earthquake, eclipse, fog, etc… all in one turn?
Now I understand the wargear aspect I get it random things that units could bring, you never know feeling but honestly it breaks the suspension of disbelief for me personally.
It’s cool… I got all the old books still. I can use those.
(not telling you to feel like I do… no need for 5 paragraphs of retort on this, you know who you are)

Secondly… those Bauhaus look pretty awful at this point I’m not gonna lie. They look like bad super villain lackeys. I’d be back at the drawing board with those… what wrong with the old concept for them? I think people had a higher expectations and decided to drop the pledge down… a $3017 drop is really worth looking into, that’s an awful lot of all the sudden “I can’t afford it” more like “different than what I thought” models and rules.

The good news is… 3D renders are easy to fix (relatively) and these rules are total beta rules…
I’m just waiting to see if the the Cybertronic get the kind of troops I like (peoples volunteers and Machinators) and to see what the Imperial look like before I up my pledge.
Acting like a near $3020 drop is no big deal really is… that a little less than what a mold would cost for a plastic Vulcan….

So… if it was my KS I’d really start asking questions. Maybe even stop the KS and rework the whole thing… not a big deal. Seems like a big deal right but..I’d much much much rather see this thing done right and better prepared than come out as it is… as it is just might not have enough float long term.

You gotta look at warzones history... I really really would like this game to F'in stick around this time... at this rate it might not cause I don't even like it as it is right now.
I'm trying really hard to give it a chance

but

Apparently thows shoulder pads have been eating their vitamins between concept and render!



It's not bad, but still needs work. Thows shoulder pads look more like Water wings then armour at the moment. Just way to large and bloated to be convincing on a model that is otherwise a properly proportioned human.

Other wise it doesn't look to bad. With out the Cod piece and thigh armour thow, the shin armour looks kinda impratical/out of place. I would replace thows with knee pads to help balance the look abit more. (unless you plan on giving him the cod piece and thigh armour as in the orginal concept art. Then the shin armour would look perfect.)

Some detailing bits like pouches you can glue to their belts would also be prety cool also. If these guys get onto plastic sprues, these would be perfect little bits you could throw on. I assume in the future you still need to carry extra bullets around with you after all.


I look foreword to future updates!

 5deadly wrote:

 Carnuscaedes wrote:
Yes, had several games with proxies - I wouldn't post without giving it a go. It's a massive departure from previous editions (along the lines of FFG's Abortive CMG - dark soul curse their name for eternity) This is what I feel killed it then... and leaves no room for future development without a complete overhaul or knocking this back to foundations and starting again. This is depressing since the miniatures have some promise but the rules break it. Since times running out and I having difficulty seeing a solution without reverting to traditional multiple action point allowance system consigning the game within a game 'Res' rubbish as far into the background as possible... this 'Cartel' pledge is about to be put out of my misery before I'm stuck with a rubbish game with better miniatures than 40k

I agree with most of this.

I’m not going on another tangent I know some of us here are super big supporters… not tryin to stir the hornets’ nest

I will say this. I liked the old rules, the ones that came in the target games boxed set… lots of very cool solid stuff there, I don’t care for the cards.
Why?

This for me is very very simple and will make sense if you (Prodos and Others) will just listen.

suspension of disbelief.

Some of these cards totally break the “suspension of disbelief” and this is something very important to gaming.
An example. I place a certain card… now my guns magically turn to plasma… this never happened in WarZone before. It also doesn’t make sense.
A better example… in a game now, you could have an earthquake, eclipse, fog, etc… all in one turn?
Now I understand the wargear aspect I get it random things that units could bring, you never know feeling but honestly it breaks the suspension of disbelief for me personally.
It’s cool… I got all the old books still. I can use those.
(not telling you to feel like I do… no need for 5 paragraphs of retort on this, you know who you are)

Secondly… those Bauhaus look pretty awful at this point I’m not gonna lie. They look like bad super villain lackeys. I’d be back at the drawing board with those… what wrong with the old concept for them? I think people had a higher expectations and decided to drop the pledge down… a $3017 drop is really worth looking into, that’s an awful lot of all the sudden “I can’t afford it” more like “different than what I thought” models and rules.

The good news is… 3D renders are easy to fix (relatively) and these rules are total beta rules…
I’m just waiting to see if the the Cybertronic get the kind of troops I like (peoples volunteers and Machinators) and to see what the Imperial look like before I up my pledge.
Acting like a near $3020 drop is no big deal really is… that a little less than what a mold would cost for a plastic Vulcan….

So… if it was my KS I’d really start asking questions. Maybe even stop the KS and rework the whole thing… not a big deal. Seems like a big deal right but..I’d much much much rather see this thing done right and better prepared than come out as it is… as it is just might not have enough float long term.

You gotta look at warzones history... I really really would like this game to F'in stick around this time... at this rate it might not cause I don't even like it as it is right now.
I'm trying really hard to give it a chance

but

But that £2000 pledge is all one guy. So do Prodos listen to the majority of their customers or one guy who pledged at a high level. One dude in at a high level didn't like cards. Why read more in to it than that. Especially when the other two in st £2000 still seem fine. There are over 500 other backers and our voices should matter whether we pledge £1 or £2000. And as a backer, I like the direction.

That is the thing about high-value pledges, they can drop at any time. But just because they were considering giving you a large sum of money, doesn't mean they are more important than those who pledged less and stick around. Making a big deal about one guy dropping is silly even if they were in for £2000. The KS will move forward again just as it was doing when his £2000 was still pledged.

Hm, I'm not really liking the way those shoulders are really sticking miles out, or the bare-armed-ness of them. In the concept sketches they looked like bracers.

The chest/back looks good.

The pants look like civilian pants rather than fatigues of any kind, right down to the arse-pockets.

Greaves and boots look good.

More pouches, or at least the option for some.

The helmet looks pretty bad. I think it's the eye-holes, or the combo of them with the skinny mask and the hollow where the eye-holes reside.

Well i agree that it is far to early to press the panic button due to one backer pulling out there has been a quite dramatic slow down in pledges over the last few days. Which to a certain level is to be expected. Probably coincidental with beta rules being released, however cant be totally dismissed that the rules are leaving a lot of people cold. I imagine over the next few we will have a better picture. Figures dont lie so they say.

I like them to keep the card system, haven't tried it yet but I sure don't want a 40k/warmahordes clone.

As for the shoulder pads on the hussar I'd like to see a different approach for a moment just to make a comparison. And I can't deny wishing for a more old-school approach the shoulder pad issue. And the head needs some adjustment as have already been pointed out. Otherwise I like it!

Yeah, right now the shoulders aren't really matching up to the more streamlined concept piece and seems to be trying to capture the huge-pauldron demographic. Either further towards the huge, horizontal pads or smaller and slimmer like the concept. They are the only bit that is bugging me right now. But either way it is a WIP so still time to tweak and improve. Than and I'm waiting to see the render of the second head option with the more pronounced helmet, that was my favourite concept head that they ended up choosing.

This head definitely reminds me of the helmetless mask of the Ducal Militia sergeant.

The details on the rest are looking pretty good as well.

I'd just like to see a few different shoulder pad tweaks since the current ones just aren't doing it for me. But knowing Prodos they'll have a few extra examples and tweaks up their sleeves (remember the difference between the WIP riding pants on Angelika and the more finished one, Prodos are pretty good when it comes to finishing touches).

I am also torn on the sleeves. Maybe a few different arm options with bracers and some with rolled sleeves. They wont always be fighting in the ice rings after all. But for a WIP, it is looking pretty good.

Edit - Looking better already!

I don't get the point of shoulder pads that don't protect the shoulders. Pretty disappointed in the Bauhaus troops and Venusian Rangers. I'm a huge fan of Bauhaus from the old artwork and Doomtrooper game, and these are just too far from them.

Mishima Hero WiP.

The guys in the facebook forum ask for your feedback on this one:

 5deadly wrote:

 Carnuscaedes wrote:
Yes, had several games with proxies - I wouldn't post without giving it a go. It's a massive departure from previous editions (along the lines of FFG's Abortive CMG - dark soul curse their name for eternity) This is what I feel killed it then... and leaves no room for future development without a complete overhaul or knocking this back to foundations and starting again. This is depressing since the miniatures have some promise but the rules break it. Since times running out and I having difficulty seeing a solution without reverting to traditional multiple action point allowance system consigning the game within a game 'Res' rubbish as far into the background as possible... this 'Cartel' pledge is about to be put out of my misery before I'm stuck with a rubbish game with better miniatures than 40k

I agree with most of this.

I’m not going on another tangent I know some of us here are super big supporters… not tryin to stir the hornets’ nest

I will say this. I liked the old rules, the ones that came in the target games boxed set… lots of very cool solid stuff there, I don’t care for the cards.
Why?

This for me is very very simple and will make sense if you (Prodos and Others) will just listen.

suspension of disbelief.

Some of these cards totally break the “suspension of disbelief” and this is something very important to gaming.
An example. I place a certain card… now my guns magically turn to plasma… this never happened in WarZone before. It also doesn’t make sense.
A better example… in a game now, you could have an earthquake, eclipse, fog, etc… all in one turn?
Now I understand the wargear aspect I get it random things that units could bring, you never know feeling but honestly it breaks the suspension of disbelief for me personally.
It’s cool… I got all the old books still. I can use those.

I'm going to agree here if I disagree with the rest of your post because taste is a very subjective thing. I might end up being wrong but right know for me the card mechanic takes me out of my miniature game mindset where all I see are soldiers running around back to the real world where I have to stop and think what I'm supposed to do with the card I got, play it now, keep it for later... I'm torn about the cards, on the one hand equipment cards would be great but some of the others don't mesh with my idea of WZ. But as Ronin has been pointing out we are still in the Beta and so far Prodos has been very receptive to constructive critics.

M.

Id like to explain my situation in regards to this project as it may help prodos. I dont know how common this is so dont know how useful it will be. I live in a medium / smaller town .there is one gaming club. We have around 40 members about 20 on average turn up on club nights. It is very gw centric with about half the members playing only 40k
we have over the last year managed to get a malifaux league going with a lot of pushing. Now believe it or not i really do want to get thos going as would love to have an alternative to 40k. This will be a really hard sell for me. Realistically to have any chance i need to initially provide at least 2 factions preferably more and rules, hence my original pledge £333 as i also really wanted the cases. Now at my club i can guarentee noone else will pledge on the kickstarter i tried really hard with goa to no avail. I think 2 have backed cmon kickstarters in the past so have high expectations of freebies. I cant push it on the IP as none ive spoken to have heard of its prior incarnations. So as mentioned previously i initially have to provide everything to game with to get people hooked. So at times i may have seen overly critical of certain things but i will need to invest not only a considerable amount of money but a lot of time as well. with no guarentees of the longegevity and the fact i still may not convert people im taking a gamble. The next difficulty i will have is convincing my one local independent shop to stock it who offers are club members a 10% discount. As he is struggling these days and relies a lot on his GW sales. But we managed previously to get him to stock malifaux. I hope this inforrmation may be of some use but i am unaware of how common this situation is in your demographic.

phil751 wrote:
Id like to explain my situation in regards to this project as it may help prodos. I dont know how common this is so dont know how useful it will be. I live in a medium / smaller town .there is one gaming club. We have around 40 members about 20 on average turn up on club nights. It is very gw centric with about half the members playing only 40k
we have over the last year managed to get a malifaux league going with a lot of pushing. Now believe it or not i really do want to get thos going as would love to have an alternative to 40k. This will be a really hard sell for me. Realistically to have any chance i need to initially provide at least 2 factions preferably more and rules, hence my original pledge £333 as i also really wanted the cases. Now at my club i can guarentee noone else will pledge on the kickstarter i tried really hard with goa to no avail. I think 2 have backed cmon kickstarters in the past so have high expectations of freebies. I cant push it on the IP as none ive spoken to have heard of its prior incarnations. So as mentioned previously i initially have to provide everything to game with to get people hooked. So at times i may have seen overly critical of certain things but i will need to invest not only a considerable amount of money but a lot of time as well. with no guarentees of the longegevity and the fact i still may not convert people im taking a gamble. The next difficulty i will have is convincing my one local independent shop to stock it who offers are club members a 10% discount. As he is struggling these days and relies a lot on his GW sales. But we managed previously to get him to stock malifaux. I hope this inforrmation may be of some use but i am unaware of how common this situation is in your demographic.

Where you are located in UK, if I may ask?
We are going to run beta gaming next Monday in Leamington Spa, with new miniatures, more rules. Mark is going to post that info today on our facebook, but I can say that everybody are more than welcome to try the game !!! and have a beer with us ... if you over 21
Regarding the clubs discount, we will consider this one, as it's good idea, but it might be causing some anger coming our way for solos :( (they might get something else instead), let us think about it. Thanks.

Im way down south ,taunton ,somerset. Not really suggesting you offer a discoint to clubs in the kickstarter. Be hard to implement fairly like you mentioned. I just mentioned my only local games store gives members of our games club a ten percent discount on presentation of our membership card. Might be worth considering when you go retail if your selling direct at all. Or perhaps having some sort of network for clubs to arrange toirmaments and demo likr some companies doetc . But that is still way off i guess. Was just thinking if you had a clearer picture not that im sayong you dont. It may or maynot help planning certain elements further down the line in the kickstarter.

 praetor24 wrote:
Mishima Hero WiP.

The guys in the facebook forum ask for your feedback on this one:

I cant find the Facebook forum can you send me a link? This picture is not here https://www.facebook.com/WarzoneResurrection/?

 Octopussy wrote:

 praetor24 wrote:
Mishima Hero WiP.

The guys in the facebook forum ask for your feedback on this one:

I cant find the Facebook forum can you send me a link? This picture is not here https://www.facebook.com/WarzoneResurrection/?

here is link to the Face group.

http://www.facebook.com/groups/121888887983248/

I agree with most of this.

I’m not going on another tangent I know some of us here are super big supporters… not tryin to stir the hornets’ nest

I will say this. I liked the old rules, the ones that came in the target games boxed set… lots of very cool solid stuff there, I don’t care for the cards.
Why?

This for me is very very simple and will make sense if you (Prodos and Others) will just listen.

suspension of disbelief.

Some of these cards totally break the “suspension of disbelief” and this is something very important to gaming.
An example. I place a certain card… now my guns magically turn to plasma… this never happened in WarZone before. It also doesn’t make sense.
A better example… in a game now, you could have an earthquake, eclipse, fog, etc… all in one turn?
Now I understand the wargear aspect I get it random things that units could bring, you never know feeling but honestly it breaks the suspension of disbelief for me personally.
It’s cool… I got all the old books still. I can use those.
(not telling you to feel like I do… no need for 5 paragraphs of retort on this, you know who you are)

Pretty much the same thoughts here. But this implementation of the cards has really killed it for me. I don't think of Magic: TG, it more makes me think of Yu-gi-Oh. It really, seriously, feels more like a card game with miniatures, than it does a miniatures game with cards, to me. The apparent homogenization of squads (i.e., the removal of heavy/special weapons members of squads) furthers this.

When I thought the game would be "here's your factions deck of 75 cards, add in the squad specific cards for what you're fielding, now play" I thought it could be a cool and workable dynamic, but add in actual deck-building, and it's just one more thing to think about that I don't want to mess with.

I still REALLY hope that the game comes back and does well. The more variety there is in the wargaming hobby, the better off all of us are.

Wurfelrolle wrote:

I agree with most of this.

I’m not going on another tangent I know some of us here are super big supporters… not tryin to stir the hornets’ nest

I will say this. I liked the old rules, the ones that came in the target games boxed set… lots of very cool solid stuff there, I don’t care for the cards.
Why?

This for me is very very simple and will make sense if you (Prodos and Others) will just listen.

suspension of disbelief.

Some of these cards totally break the “suspension of disbelief” and this is something very important to gaming.
An example. I place a certain card… now my guns magically turn to plasma… this never happened in WarZone before. It also doesn’t make sense.
A better example… in a game now, you could have an earthquake, eclipse, fog, etc… all in one turn?
Now I understand the wargear aspect I get it random things that units could bring, you never know feeling but honestly it breaks the suspension of disbelief for me personally.
It’s cool… I got all the old books still. I can use those.
(not telling you to feel like I do… no need for 5 paragraphs of retort on this, you know who you are)

Pretty much the same thoughts here. But this implementation of the cards has really killed it for me. I don't think of Magic: TG, it more makes me think of Yu-gi-Oh. It really, seriously, feels more like a card game with miniatures, than it does a miniatures game with cards, to me. The apparent homogenization of squads (i.e., the removal of heavy/special weapons members of squads) furthers this.

When I thought the game would be "here's your factions deck of 75 cards, add in the squad specific cards for what you're fielding, now play" I thought it could be a cool and workable dynamic, but add in actual deck-building, and it's just one more thing to think about that I don't want to mess with.

I still REALLY hope that the game comes back and does well. The more variety there is in the wargaming hobby, the better off all of us are.

I would suggest to go through the rules once again, as there is no" removal of heavy/special weapons members of squads" , as we stated on beta rules, You would have to build your own army as per previous editions, based on points. Each squad can be upgraded with Special, heavy weapon , special skills ... and you'd have to pay points for it before game starts.
These are Beta rules, they don't give you this option (building army) atm as we need to get mechanic right , at this stage we are gathering feedbacks, and I would be gratefully if you can provide some based on the "beta" gaming experience .
Just for record, I must stays that majority of fans who actually played the game with cards gave us positive feedback.

Wurfelrolle wrote:

I agree with most of this.

I’m not going on another tangent I know some of us here are super big supporters… not tryin to stir the hornets’ nest

I will say this. I liked the old rules, the ones that came in the target games boxed set… lots of very cool solid stuff there, I don’t care for the cards.
Why?

This for me is very very simple and will make sense if you (Prodos and Others) will just listen.

suspension of disbelief.

Some of these cards totally break the “suspension of disbelief” and this is something very important to gaming.
An example. I place a certain card… now my guns magically turn to plasma… this never happened in WarZone before. It also doesn’t make sense.
A better example… in a game now, you could have an earthquake, eclipse, fog, etc… all in one turn?
Now I understand the wargear aspect I get it random things that units could bring, you never know feeling but honestly it breaks the suspension of disbelief for me personally.
It’s cool… I got all the old books still. I can use those.
(not telling you to feel like I do… no need for 5 paragraphs of retort on this, you know who you are)

Pretty much the same thoughts here. But this implementation of the cards has really killed it for me. I don't think of Magic: TG, it more makes me think of Yu-gi-Oh. It really, seriously, feels more like a card game with miniatures, than it does a miniatures game with cards, to me. The apparent homogenization of squads (i.e., the removal of heavy/special weapons members of squads) furthers this.

When I thought the game would be "here's your factions deck of 75 cards, add in the squad specific cards for what you're fielding, now play" I thought it could be a cool and workable dynamic, but add in actual deck-building, and it's just one more thing to think about that I don't want to mess with.

I still REALLY hope that the game comes back and does well. The more variety there is in the wargaming hobby, the better off all of us are.

The game does still have heavy/special weapons in squads. They're referrenced in the current rules pdf.

The rules for the game seem very much "Normal functional miniatures game" with cards for fog of war game effect to me. It has all the normal rules minis games tends to have (Cover, line of sight, charge arcs, ranges, leadership, actions per round etc etc), but just sotra adds a tactical deck on top of it.