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Ah, I see they've gone the Bisley route with them. Still grabbing it for the female heads (want to make my V-Ranger squad leader a woman). At the very least, as an update to the unit that sticks to the style, it is a major improvement. But if they were going to go with the body-glove look then evening out the unit and putting a few guys in (since Mutant Chronicles used to have them as a co-ed unit) would have gone a ways toward making it seem a bit less fan-servicey.

But at the very least they lack cutesy poses that would take them from femme fatale and put them straight in to cheesecake. So for that I am thankful.

And that horrifically scarred head is definitely a breath of fresh air compared to the usual pristine look. She will be my V-Ranger squad leader head, I think.

So they aren't my usual preference, but they are an update in a style that is at least in keeping with the way the unit has been depicted in the past (the one with the crossed night-sticks is even an homage to a specific piece of art). And Prodos at least didn't make them overly cheese-cakey in terms of posing (the ones with the Gehenna Pukers do kind of look bad ass). If they grew a bit more armour on the chest, I wouldn't complain. But I'm not going to stomp off in a huff. I still play Infinity after-all.

PS - And oddly, despite my objections, I think my wife will dig 'em. Different strokes as they say. :p

Damn, I had this awesome concept for Dying Stars. Oh well, one unit I might not get isn't the end of the world.

You started so well with Angelica Drachen probably the best female model in a wargame I've ever seen and then first 'blessed' vestal laurel and now this? I don't suppose they come with an option for I don't know... armour? or at least a shirt?

I must agree, they completely oversexed them. I don't get how they decide that some models are almost perfect copy of the art from previous edition (those recieve thumbs up from the fans) and some are completely changed (most often for worse). Specially women characters, it happened with Laura then Golgotha and now Etoiles. I remember when Prodos commented that they do not want to oversexed characters in WZ:R. Well, aparently the etoiles can sneak in Venuasian jungles wearing skimpy panties and get no scratch

Shoulders are vulnerable, who needs body armour? Or pants?
Guess some foreigners have strange opinions on French women and their fashion style ... or widows and mothers

The Mortants are widows and mothers that have dedicated their life to the end of the Legion or Megacorporation that has caused their loss. These are not women you want to cross.

 Ronin_eX wrote:
Ah, I see they've gone the Bisley route with them. Still grabbing it for the female heads (want to make my V-Ranger squad leader a woman). At the very least, as an update to the unit that sticks to the style, it is a major improvement. But if they were going to go with the body-glove look then evening out the unit and putting a few guys in (since Mutant Chronicles used to have them as a co-ed unit) would have gone a ways toward making it seem a bit less fan-servicey.

But at the very least they lack cutesy poses that would take them from femme fatale and put them straight in to cheesecake. So for that I am thankful.

And that horrifically scarred head is definitely a breath of fresh air compared to the usual pristine look. She will be my V-Ranger squad leader head, I think.

So they aren't my usual preference, but they are an update in a style that is at least in keeping with the way the unit has been depicted in the past (the one with the crossed night-sticks is even an homage to a specific piece of art). And Prodos at least didn't make them overly cheese-cakey in terms of posing (the ones with the Gehenna Pukers do kind of look bad ass). If they grew a bit more armour on the chest, I wouldn't complain. But I'm not going to stomp off in a huff. I still play Infinity after-all.

PS - And oddly, despite my objections, I think my wife will dig 'em. Different strokes as they say. :p

How do you figure the poses isn't fan service the second one on the left is holding her boobs.

sevsterino wrote:
I must agree, they completely oversexed them. I don't get how they decide that some models are almost perfect copy of the art from previous edition (those recieve thumbs up from the fans) and some are completely changed (most often for worse). Specially women characters, it happened with Laura then Golgotha and now Etoiles. I remember when Prodos commented that they do not want to oversexed characters in WZ:R. Well, aparently the etoiles can sneak in Venuasian jungles wearing skimpy panties and get no scratch

I wouldn't go with the "these suck because they changed the art" angle, myself. If anything the catsuit versions are more prolific than Bonner's.

Studio Parente


Bisley


Can't Remember Right Now


Honestly, they stayed really true to most of the Etoile Mortant art. So you can't fault them on not using the past just because it isn't your personal favourite version. I would have actually preferred a ground-up redesign in this case, because most of the old art for Etoiles Mortant was ladies in skin-tight catsuits with little to no armour and sharp implements. I would have preferred something closer to Angelika's armour with some of the old-school EM stylings (certainly not the metal tube-top!). But for people who wanted faithful Etoiles Mortant, Prodos kind of delivered.

 TheDungen wrote:

 Ronin_eX wrote:
Ah, I see they've gone the Bisley route with them. Still grabbing it for the female heads (want to make my V-Ranger squad leader a woman). At the very least, as an update to the unit that sticks to the style, it is a major improvement. But if they were going to go with the body-glove look then evening out the unit and putting a few guys in (since Mutant Chronicles used to have them as a co-ed unit) would have gone a ways toward making it seem a bit less fan-servicey.

But at the very least they lack cutesy poses that would take them from femme fatale and put them straight in to cheesecake. So for that I am thankful.

And that horrifically scarred head is definitely a breath of fresh air compared to the usual pristine look. She will be my V-Ranger squad leader head, I think.

So they aren't my usual preference, but they are an update in a style that is at least in keeping with the way the unit has been depicted in the past (the one with the crossed night-sticks is even an homage to a specific piece of art). And Prodos at least didn't make them overly cheese-cakey in terms of posing (the ones with the Gehenna Pukers do kind of look bad ass). If they grew a bit more armour on the chest, I wouldn't complain. But I'm not going to stomp off in a huff. I still play Infinity after-all.

PS - And oddly, despite my objections, I think my wife will dig 'em. Different strokes as they say. :p

How do you figure the poses isn't fan service the second one on the left is holding her boobs.

Yeah, she's is the major exception, the others are largely fine (pose-wise). The hilarious part is that she is the most faithfully recreated one of the bunch (see Studio Parente cover above). As I said, I'd have loved them to do a ground-up redesign on these, because a faithful remake was going to be exactly what we got. Because Bonner only had the one piece, and it was meant to be Valerie Duval herself (at least according to Siege of the Citadel, and since they are using Siege-Max as their Max Steiner, Siege-Val is probably their go-to for Valerie).

I am just kind of weirded out by the intimation that Prodos did any re-designs here. My whole problem with the original Etoiles Mortant was that they were women in skin-tight body-suits. That this has taken people by surprise, is itself, surprising to me.

I thought the Mortants were trained by The Brotherhood to fight the Dark Legion (and then Cybertronic). The widow and mother thing is Imperial Mourning Wolves.

As for the renders, I'm not a fan. Although I did like the women in cat suits thing (I sort of got a Kate Beckensale in Underworld vibe from the fluff about Valerie Duval). And THREE Pukers in a squad. Wow...

I never read the comics so I cant comment on how they looked there but in the warzone book there was one EM and she didn't have a catsuit. They also said they'd be bringing warzone to the 21st century now chainmail bikini isn't the 21 century if you ask me.

These minis look terrible. The cat suit with only armor being the shoulder pads looks like the worst of trashy 90's comic books. I was excited by concept showen with the bonner art and other women in the bauhaus range. very disapointed.

Good thing they are only renders at this point, and not actual miniatures.

Plenty of time to make adjustments and keep 'The Sexy' in too...

 TheDungen wrote:
I never read the comics so I cant comment on how they looked there but in the warzone book there was one EM and she didn't have a catsuit. They also said they'd be bringing warzone to the 21st century now chainmail bikini isn't the 21 century if you ask me.

Only one of those images is from the comic mate. The first one is actually a Mutant Chronicles source book (so concurrent with 1st Edition Warzone) and I believe it even appears in a 1st Edition book as well. The last picture is 2nd Edition.

The only minis ever produced for the Etoile Mortant matched the art I posted more closely than Bonner's work. And Bonner's work was actually art that was originally meant to represent Valerie Duval (as she appeared in Siege of the Citadel, which is also where they got the version of Max Steiner we now have a render for).

1st Edition Warzone was pretty bad for reusing the same few art pices over and over again and doing so out of general context. For another fun example Coral Beach, a Cybertronic character, was also the art piece used to represent Chassuers and later, Enhanced Chasseurs (exact same picture used each time). And of course, we all know that 1st Edition Chasseurs (and current edition ones) look nothing like the art piece we were given. Max Steiner is another good example of someone who has been alternately used as archetypal art for a unit as well as using art that represented other characters as his own.

Bonner only ever drew Valerie Duval, but because Target loved re-using art whenever they could it ended up being re-purposed to being a general EM picture in 1st Edition just as Coral Beach was the archetypal Chasseur. It doesn't help that later on Valerie Duval was swapped to the raven-haired woman with the bladed night-sticks just to confuse everyone even more. In actual truth, the only art of an Etoile Mortant that you can find that hasn't been, at one time, a picture of Valerie Duval, is the blonde one in the blue catsuit with the metal crop-top.

Did I ever mention how confusing and byzantine the history of Mutant Chronicles/Warzone art is? DID I?!?!?!? *ahem*

I can get people's disappointment, certainly, but Prodos faithfully re-produced the most well-developed (hrm, poor choice of words...) version of the Etoiles Mortant (likely so they could save Bonner's piece to do Val with). If you weren't looking for catsuits, then it was the wrong tree to go barking up, unless you wanted Prodos to do a complete re-design of the unit (which would be my preference). But honestly, I don't actually want Prodos to get caught up re-designing these things.

In a few years when we look back on old releases and start doing the inevitable "what needs to be resculpted" threads, these will be on my list (not due to quality though, just style-preference). But for now, they are pretty damn faithful to the art that has come before and it seems enough (non-vocal) people are largely happy with them (the pledges certainly have shot up a bit). So let those people have their fun. I am happy to use them for head swaps and remember exactly why I have never bought a single unit of Etoiles Mortant for ANY edition of the game.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Well I'm certainly not complaining about this:

Jarek Ever wrote: Based on your feedbacks , It looks likes they might need some more love

I just hope this doesn't set 'em back too much. And I hope they don't change the scarred head too much. Hopefully they can just port over Angelika's armour bits to give them a bit of cover up. Their patience and willingness to alter things never ceases to amaze me.

Now, cue the counter-bitching!

yeah in that case i wanted them to do that.

And that piece is not on the cover of my mutant chronicles rpg first ed that has the freelancer version of mcbride on it. On page 54 there is a EM however in armour and camo clothing. (oh and this isnt a paul bonner piece)
and no its not in the first edition warzone either, that has 114 pictures of EM Valerie Duval (a redhead alongside the other doomtrooper heroes) on page 38 a brunette one at pg 79 (who looks nothing like duval from page 38), another behind the nefarite magus at 114 (looks nothing like the other two). And you are sugesting that all these three EM are in fact Valerie duval despite that they're clearly not the same person and all drawn by Paul Bonner? They are all EM and all of them wear armour instead of catsuits... your move.

Edit: Hey I found one of you pictures, really small on the back of the second edition rpg.

I wanted the redesign too.

For me an angelica top armour without the jacket (and paldrons?) and the top of the middle etoile would be great, heads are nice, nightsticks replaced with punisher combos.

So here

Duval:


Moratant 1:



Mortant 2 (I know doom trooper labelled this one as Hussar, but since she's using a punisher rather than Hussar equipment I'm going to assume that was a mistake):


Mortant 3:

 TheDungen wrote:
So here

Duval:

Yup! That certainly is!



But according to Siege of the Citadel (back when Watts was white!)

Also Valerie (the face painting is all the same, easy way to tell!)
|
|
v

Moratant 1:



Mortant 2 (I know doom trooper labelled this one as Hussar, but since she's using a punisher rather than Hussar equipment I'm going to assume that was a mistake):


Mortant 3:

Congrats on independently verifying exactly what my post was getting at. Valerie has at least 2-3 different incarnations. The one we see in Siege of the Citadel (which is where Prodos are pulling their version of Max Steiner from), the one featured in that Bonner pic where she is changed a little (face paint is changed, armour is in a new colour), and the version seen in Golgotha where she has black hair and is wearing a body stocking.

At some point in time, all of these pictures have been Valerie Duval. The only one that does not have this honour is the one from 2nd Edition.

And that piece is not on the cover of my mutant chronicles rpg first ed that has the freelancer version of mcbride on it. On page 54 there is a EM however in armour and camo clothing. (oh and this isnt a paul bonner piece)

You realize I said contemporary with 1st Edition right? The cover was from the Golgotha Sourcebook (1996) though it appears again as Valerie Duval's picture in the 1st Edition supplement Dawn of War (page 20 if you're curious).

So yeah, congrats, you have managed to underline exactly what I said in my own post:

Did I ever mention how confusing and byzantine the history of Mutant Chronicles/Warzone art is? DID I?!?!?!? *ahem*

But I honestly don't feel like playing "ferret out the minutae of a long-lived property's odd and storied art direction" today. So sorry, not making a move in this particular game of nerd-minutae chess.

Mortant 1 is the art used to depict Valerie on her stat card in Siege of the Citadel, Mortant 2 is from the box cover of the same game and is also Valerie, the final picture is another one of Max and Valerie captured by Valpurgius. You can generally tell because a) the first two are explicitly Val in SotC and b) the facial tattoo/scarring/warpaint is exactly the same in each case. That they look slightly different each time has more to do with the randomness of the art direction and them being in different circumstances.

Target re-used art a lot (see Max Steiner, Valerie Duval, Bob Watts both black and white, Coral Beach, etc.). I was just pointing out mostly that there is very little actual art that was originally intended as Etoiles Mortant, rather than being commissioned as Valerie Duval and later repurposed. I was also just pointing out that Prodos can't be mind readers and know which of the umpteen-billion iterations of the old art people would like to see and that the catsuit EM is more prolific than the earlier version (which were mostly just Valerie). The only mini for them was a skin-suit with a metal tube-top.

But in the end, Prodos seem to be open to altering the design and that is good enough for me. I am just weirded out by people who were expecting a faithful reproduction to something other than what we got. As I've said before, there is a reason I have never really liked the EM as a unit and there is a reason I voted for the Crucifier instead of Val even when I don't play Brotherhood.

But yeah, Prodos are tweaking it, we should all hopefully be pleased by the result.

 PsychoticStorm wrote:
I wanted the redesign too.

For me an angelica top armour without the jacket (and paldrons?) and the top of the middle etoile would be great, heads are nice, nightsticks replaced with punisher combos.

Personly i was expecting something like the armor top angelica has minus jacket, with combat fatigues like the hussars plus pauldrons like the hussars. i do like the pants on the middle one, i feel that has more the right idea.

I also agree on the punisher combos. That would look boss. If they keep with the bladed tonfas they need work. They are to oversized and the pose is to fan service.

I also we hope we get alt heads that don't have huge 80's hair. Lol i don't mind one or here their. Just not the whole squad.

(sorry for any spelling and grammer on last 2 posts. Posted them from a phone.)

 jacobus wrote:
I thought the Mortants were trained by The Brotherhood to fight the Dark Legion (and then Cybertronic). The widow and mother thing is Imperial Mourning Wolves.

I think you are right, but I quoted the official kickstarter text on the Etoiles Mortants.

After the Capitol offerings these ladies came way behind. The return of the Gehenna Puker (and three in the same unit :O) is great but the heads need more work, Etoile #4 is saying "shoot me here" and if the sculptor wants to leave the navel showing at least take the chest armor under the rib cage please.

M.

I don't know or care about which art is or isn't the "true original" version of the unit. All I know is that I would love to field a miniature that looks like this:



And I would be embarrassed to be seen in public fielding a miniature that looks like this:



If they're open to redesigns as some have said, I think the first image in this post would be a vastly better look than what they have at present.

The design of the heads leaves me cold... but I'm sure with a good coat of paint, they'd clean up fine.

The weaponry, however, is a bit hard to swallow. I always saw the Gehenna Puker as a circumstancially good weapon but not as polyvalent as the punisher combo.

I have some of the original catsuit mortants and I think they are nice minis and not too overly sexy for a solar system in which virtually every man apparently travels with an ab roller and eats steroids with every meal.



That said, I'm not a huge fan of the renders. They seem a bit off somehow.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Though the one on the left looks good.

normally I don't like miniatures of women that are what you call the chainmail bikini like but I actually like the cat suits a lot. They are supposed to be stealth troops, so wearing cat suits like ninjas or splinter cell ect..fits for me. I am not sure I care for the hair do's on these but I do like the cat suits.

WTH is etoiles mortant suppose to mean ????

At any one time only one of these have been Valerie though wich means that at all times three of those pictures have been EM the same number as your comic book pictures and sourcebook based on a comic. Also the form fitting armour in your pictures is still way better than the no no shirt lowcut pants that they have now.
EM in actual gear is not unpresedented and I really don't see why they are bashing them into mourning wolves. The EM as they where represented that Bauhaus was the corp closest to the brotherhood.
They went into this saying that they wanted to bring warzone into the 21st century. I assumed that meant realism. Guess I was wrong i guess the 21st century is just fan service and bulging muscles too. Hey maybe the next batman suit will have nipples too( cause that's obviously how the 21st century is.

kestral wrote:
I have some of the original catsuit mortants and I think they are nice minis and not too overly sexy for a solar system in which virtually every man apparently travels with an ab roller and eats steroids with every meal.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
Though the one on the left looks good.

These original catsuits mortants are from the 2nd ed.

The first edition looked like that. The models are not pretty, but Target Games for a good reason stayed with Bonner's concept rather than Bisleys. I also found in Chronicles from Warzone and all 1st edition compendiums many more pictures of EM wearing light armor and pants than cat suits

sevsterino wrote:
I remember when Prodos commented that they do not want to oversexed characters in WZ:R.

So do I. But so far it seems like Angelika will be the only one with a "realistic" take. And for all we know she may be in line to get her bust size increased and her outfit sexed-up since so many people complained about her before.

What they complained about Angelika? about what? She was the probably most awesome female miniature ever sculpted.

madzerker wrote:
normally I don't like miniatures of women that are what you call the chainmail bikini like but I actually like the cat suits a lot. They are supposed to be stealth troops, so wearing cat suits like ninjas or splinter cell ect..fits for me. I am not sure I care for the hair do's on these but I do like the cat suits.

Also for the whole catsuit thing being realistic since they are supposed to be stealth, have you seen a a real special forces team? they don't dresss in cat suits they dress in bulletproof vests and helms, they don't pack knives they pack p90s. just look at the delta force for an example. the cat suits is a hollywood thing and a dated one at that.
You wan to know how a female soldier look like? watch the beginning of Iron man again. "Oh my god you're a woman, I honestly couldn't tell before"

streetsamurai wrote:
WTH is etoiles mortant suppose to mean ????

The Dying Stars

 TheDungen wrote:

streetsamurai wrote:
WTH is etoiles mortant suppose to mean ????

The Dying Stars

I wonder in wich language , since etoiles is french , but mortant certainly ain't.

I think its really is étoiles mourantes, the -t suffix may come from the fact that the game was originally made by swedes and they've bent (i have no idea what its called in english) it like it was swedish. feel free to call them étoiles mourantes if it pleases you. myself I'll never learn to pronounce that anyway so i'll go etolies morant and etoiles morants.

Edit: oh they're called Etoies mortant... i have no idea,maybe they didn tthink people would recognise the french word for death unless it had Mort in it. I doubt you can get them to change it at this point, pitty though Etolies Morantes sounds way better than etoiles mortants.