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Don't know if everyone has seen this PDF,

http://www.flamesofwar.com/hobby.aspx?art_id=3730

It covers other German forces at the battle of the bulge, in many ways I find it slightly odd, they do 3 books with lists that have great equipment but are all trained, and then do a PDF which has all the toys you want and troops who can use them.

The lists also have half decent recon which is lacking in a lot of LW German lists which is nice

So I've been thinking of some lists, and thought I'd share my new version of the great Panzer Lehr GpG list


HQ GpG 80

GpG 3 sections + anti tank 305

GpG 3 sections + anti tank 305

Pg scout 2 section 135

Pg pioneers with HQ Faust and supply truck 180

Motorised artillery (4 guns) 215

PG AA 3 flak38's 75

Tank hunter platoon 3 panzer iv/70 450

Panzer Lehr... thank you very much :

Edit- A bit annoying that they changed the GpG platoons from villers-bocage to have all panzerfaust/mg teams instead of just including one tank hunter team per squad... especially as I have all the requisite tank hunters
But still... go Lehr!

I have been waiting on this one,But what i really want is the 12th SS Hitler Youth!

Well I think the real issue I have is why on earth in the PDF panzergrenadiers get anzerschreks for 20 points, but volks grens get them for 25....

 Reaver83 wrote:
Well I think the real issue I have is why on earth in the PDF panzergrenadiers get anzerschreks for 20 points, but volks grens get them for 25....

They might have been rarer in Volksgrenadier units, or they thought 20 point Panzerschreks would be unbalanced in VG units since everything else is so cheap already.

It's a great PDF that should have been in the books.

It may replace the Aufklarungs pdf as my go-to late war German army list.

I like how most of the lists can mix tank and infantry combat platoons

ETA-

 Reaver83 wrote:
Well I think the real issue I have is why on earth in the PDF panzergrenadiers get anzerschreks for 20 points, but volks grens get them for 25....

The Volksgrens are 4 guys on a medium base and get 2 shots. The other tankhunters are 2 guys on a small base and get 1 shot.

AndrasOtto wrote:
It's a great PDF that should have been in the books.

Perhaps, but I do enjoy free pdfs!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Reaver83 wrote:
Well I think the real issue I have is why on earth in the PDF panzergrenadiers get anzerschreks for 20 points, but volks grens get them for 25....

Err thats because they're 2 different units

Tank Hunter Team=1 Shot

Panzershreck Team=2 Shots

missed that difference!

 kenshin620 wrote:

AndrasOtto wrote:
It's a great PDF that should have been in the books.

Perhaps, but I do enjoy free pdfs!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Reaver83 wrote:
Well I think the real issue I have is why on earth in the PDF panzergrenadiers get anzerschreks for 20 points, but volks grens get them for 25....

Err thats because they're 2 different units

Tank Hunter Team=1 Shot

Panzershreck Team=2 Shots

Oops, that's what I get for not looking. That would explain it!

While it may be a nice briefing, I see this as a clear sign of 'codex creep'. They gave Spearhead to units - the Panzer Lehr, most obviously - that had a difficult time actually getting on the attack. Not exactly 'spearhead' material.

On the other hand these were the units which progressed the furthest from what I've read; but I agree spearhead is not needed

It's the thought that counts.

More Lehr love....Happy times. Always nice to get a new list for my Favourite Wehrmacht unit.

Wayne uploaded a new PDF with fixed page numbers
http://www.flamesofwar.com/Portals/0/Documents/Briefings/2-and-Lehr-Panzerdivisons.pdf

A second update was posted today.

AndrasOtto wrote:
A second update was posted today.

Any idea what changed?

you get the panzer rocket launchers now (big change i spotted) and more variety in a cannon platoon too

 Reaver83 wrote:
you get the panzer rocket launchers now (big change i spotted) and more variety in a cannon platoon too

Thanks! Yeah, that is a pretty significant change. Panzerwerfers are nasty!

Not panzerwerfers, but regular Nebelwerfers.

2PD gets CV Nebelwerfers
2PD Aufk Cannon plt gets triple 15mm AA
Lehr gets a 6 tube Aufklarungs 251/2 (8cm) mortar platoon
Volks Heavy Arty Btty picked up Russian 122s, but a post by Wolflord suggests that info was an error.
(They were also left off the armory)

AndrasOtto wrote:
Not panzerwerfers, but regular Nebelwerfers.

2PD gets CV Nebelwerfers
2PD Aufk Cannon plt gets triple 15mm AA
Lehr gets a 6 tube Aufklarungs 251/2 (8cm) mortar platoon
Volks Heavy Arty Btty picked up Russian 122s, but a post by Wolflord suggests that info was an error.
(They were also left off the armory)

Ah, gotcha. When you said panzer rocket launchers I just figured you meant Panzerwerfers. Towed Nebelwerfers are still a good option of course.

I have a question:

I'm looking at the Panzerkompanie. 285 points will get me a full platoon of either the gepanzerte panzergrenadier platoon, or Gepanzerte Aufklärungs Platoon as one of my combat platoons. One uses 251's and the other has the option to include twice as many 250's. Is there much of a difference between the two platoons?

They are identical in every way except for the option of the extra 250's. The variant halftracks are just there for fluff purposes really. Of course the extra mg's are handy as well.

They can't take the old 3-gun Flak36 batteries either now... not that I own 3...

I think the list I worked out was
Hq 2 Panzer 4's
4 panzer 4's
3 panthers
Full squad gepanzergrenasiers
2 whirblwind
Half tracked panzer Spah patrol
4 cv nebs

How many points is that in total reaver?

Well just realised you can't have the half track panzer Spah and the nebs!

But if you go for 2nd panzer swap the half tracked for pumas you can add in the GPG tank hunter team and get it in just under 1750!

Here's a list I'm looking at:
Panzerkompanie
HQ
CIC & 2iC StuG's 195

Combat
1. Platoon (3 StuG's)= 295
2. Gepanzerte Aufklärungs Platoon (3 Squads)+extra 250s = 315
3. Platoon (3 Panthers)= 560

Support
2 Wirbelwinds 110
3 Squad Volksgrenadier Schutzen Platoon 220
1 panzerspäh platoon (2 8-rad) 80
Total 1775 and 6 platoons

 Reaver83 wrote:
Well just realised you can't have the half track panzer Spah and the nebs!

But if you go for 2nd panzer swap the half tracked for pumas you can add in the GPG tank hunter team and get it in just under 1750!

If you take the 9PD option, you can get halftracks w rockets.

in Flames oF war
You can field 9. Panzerdivision using the 2. Panzerdivision options with the following changes:
1: You can take the Panzer IV/70 (V) equipped Tank-hunter Platoon marked with the Lehr symbol.
2: You cannot take an Armoured Artillery Battery. 102. Panzerartillerie-Regiment had no Wespe self-propelled guns available during the Ardennes offensive. They did have nine Hummel self-propelled heavy howitzers, so you can still take a Armoured Heavy Artillery Battery.
3: You cannot take Panzerspäh Platoons, but may take Lehr marked Half-tracked Panzerspäh Platoons.
4: Panzer Anti-aircraft Gun Platoon may not be armed with Flakpanzer 38(t).
5: You may not take Assault Gun Platoons in your force.

pg21

How interesting!

The other option is to make use of my StuG's...

HQ 2 Stug (late)
4 Stug (late)
3 panthers
2 whirblwind
Gepanzers (3 sections)
2 Puma's
3 Nebs

1750 on the nose!

That's a nice list. I might go with 6 PzIVJs and 6 Nebs for 1780.

I'd thought about going for the PZIV's, but as I have the Stugs I think it'll be a future (and possibly better) list