Atheism -- two interesting pieces in the press.

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**Kilkrazy**

Two articles caught my eye today, the first is a suggested "10 Virtues for Atheists" by philosopher Alain de Boton.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/10-new-virtues-for-atheists-alain-de-botton-unveils-new-manifesto-8479256.html

The second was this report on an "Atheist church" in London.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-21319945

**SilverMK2**

I like this quote:

Bishop Harrison, a Christian preacher for 30 years, says he does not see his new neighbours as a threat, confidently predicting that their spiritual journey will eventually lead them to God.

"They have got to start from somewhere," he says.

Just tickles me

**Palindrome**

I have never understood the need for people to fabricate religions. Atheism doesn't need such fripperies simply because it isn't, and never will be, a religion.

**daedalus**

I feel like de Botton meant to say, "10 Virtues for Humanists".

While I'm completely behind most of the things he holds as virtues, ascribing them to something atheists should strive for is wrong, because those have no root in atheism, which is simply a lack of belief in the existence of a nonzero number of deities.

The second link just sounds fun. I don't think they should be calling it a church, but having that been said, I'm not so uptight about it that I wouldn't go.

**SilverMK2**

Palindrome wrote:
I have never understood the need for people to fabricate religions. Atheism doesn't need such fripperies simply because it isn't, and never will be, a religion.

There is something nice about coming together as a group of like minded individuals, especially in this time of increasing personal isolation. If it helps you discover a sense of community, wonder, or even just a little knowledge from the lectures I feel it could be a good thing.

**aosol**

Proving that any discussion of religion usual includes a song and dance. I honestly believe its just a case of having something to do or somewhere to be.

Fun articles.

**Palindrome**

SilverMK2 wrote:

There is something nice about coming together as a group of like minded individuals, especially in this time of increasing personal isolation. If it helps you discover a sense of community, wonder, or even just a little knowledge from the lectures I feel it could be a good thing.

Perhaps, but calling a church isn't helpful.

**SilverMK2**

Palindrome wrote:
Perhaps, but calling a church isn't helpful.

On this I agree, though it is difficult to think of a suitable word to use.

**LordofHats**

1. Resilience. Keeping going even when things are looking dark.

2. Empathy. The capacity to connect imaginatively with the sufferings and unique experiences of another person.

3. Patience. We should grow calmer and more forgiving by getting more realistic about how things actually tend to go.

4. Sacrifice. We won't ever manage to raise a family, love someone else or save the planet if we don't keep up with the art of sacrifice.

5. Politeness. Politeness is very linked to tolerance, the capacity to live alongside people whom one will never agree with, but at the same time, can't avoid.

6. Humour. Like anger, humour springs from disappointment, but it's disappointment optimally channelled.

7. Self-Awareness. To know oneself is to try not to blame others for one's troubles and moods; to have a sense of what's going on inside oneself, and what actually belongs to the world.

8. Forgiveness. It's recognising that living with others isn't possible without excusing errors.

9. Hope. Pessimism isn't necessarily deep, nor optimism shallow.

10. Confidence. Confidence isn't arrogance, it's based on a constant awareness of how short life is and how little we ultimately lose from risking everything.

I'm guessing his Bible is Chicken Soup for the Teenage Soul.

Am I the only one sitting here thinking "You just the ten things human beings have been encouraging one another with since the dawn of time. Congratulations?" How are any of these things overlooked.

"It's not a church, it's a congregation of unreligious people."

And people wonder why there are people claiming atheism is a religion

"I think people need that sense of connectedness because everyone is so singular right now, and to be part of something, and to feel like you are part of something. That's what people are craving in the world."

St. Paul would like you.

**Ahtman**

LordofHats wrote:
Am I the only one

Nope. And since it is that time again, this seems appropriate up front before all the normal shenanigans begin.

Spoiler:

**daedalus**

LordofHats wrote:

I'm guessing his Bible is Chicken Soup for the Teenage Soul.

Am I the only one sitting here thinking "You just the ten things human beings have been encouraging one another with since the dawn of time. Congratulations?" How are any of these things overlooked.

If they're not overlooked, why are they not practiced more often?

**LordofHats**

My running theory: People are dicks.

**d-usa**

daedalus wrote:
LordofHats wrote:

I'm guessing his Bible is Chicken Soup for the Teenage Soul.

Am I the only one sitting here thinking "You just the ten things human beings have been encouraging one another with since the dawn of time. Congratulations?" How are any of these things overlooked.

If they're not overlooked, why are they not practiced more often?

Human nature? It is in us to do good, but it is also in us to do bad. The 10 things shouldn't even be a lesson only for atheists (or humanists), everybody could use a review of them from time to time. Religions =\= morality and there are plenty of atheists who are awesome people and plenty of religious folks who are horrible people.

**Frazzled**

Palindrome wrote:
SilverMK2 wrote:

There is something nice about coming together as a group of like minded individuals, especially in this time of increasing personal isolation. If it helps you discover a sense of community, wonder, or even just a little knowledge from the lectures I feel it could be a good thing.

Perhaps, but calling a church isn't helpful.

Calling it a church is offensive, but I'm not surprised. It just reinforces the stereotype.

**nels1031**

daedalus wrote:
LordofHats wrote:

I'm guessing his Bible is Chicken Soup for the Teenage Soul.

Am I the only one sitting here thinking "You just the ten things human beings have been encouraging one another with since the dawn of time. Congratulations?" How are any of these things overlooked.

If they're not overlooked, why are they not practiced more often?

Free will.

**d-usa**

Frazzled wrote:
Palindrome wrote:
SilverMK2 wrote:

There is something nice about coming together as a group of like minded individuals, especially in this time of increasing personal isolation. If it helps you discover a sense of community, wonder, or even just a little knowledge from the lectures I feel it could be a good thing.

Perhaps, but calling a church isn't helpful.

Calling it a church is offensive, but I'm not surprised. It just reinforces the stereotype.

If you are going to have meetings and classes, what do the atheists want to call it? Club, fellowship, other?

**LordofHats**

Since atheism is the belief in nothing supernatural why are they having classes/fellowships/meetings etc on it at all? "There is no god or spiritual afterlife." Okay guys that concludes our sermon today. All they can really do is sit around smugly and do all the things a church does, claim their not a church, and bash the churches they claim their not... so... Ultimate Trolling Achieved?

**Palindrome**

Frazzled wrote:
. It just reinforces the stereotype.

What stereotype would that be? Christians being easily offended?

**Ma55ter_fett**

Palindrome wrote:
Frazzled wrote:
. It just reinforces the stereotype.

What stereotype would that be? Christians being easily offended?

Calling it a church of atheism makes people who already insist that atheism is a religion go

"AH HA I knew it, gotcha sucker!"

And then the atheist self imolates or something...

**Frazzled**

d-usa wrote:
Frazzled wrote:
Palindrome wrote:
SilverMK2 wrote:

There is something nice about coming together as a group of like minded individuals, especially in this time of increasing personal isolation. If it helps you discover a sense of community, wonder, or even just a little knowledge from the lectures I feel it could be a good thing.

Perhaps, but calling a church isn't helpful.

Calling it a church is offensive, but I'm not surprised. It just reinforces the stereotype.

If you are going to have meetings and classes, what do the atheists want to call it? Club, fellowship, other?

You answered your own question. Club, fellowship, other. NOT CHURCH THAT IS A SPECIFIC CHRISTIAN THING.

INteresting they don't call it a mosque. I guess they aren't into the inevitable reprisal.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Palindrome wrote:
Frazzled wrote:
. It just reinforces the stereotype.

What stereotype would that be? Christians being easily offended?

The stereotype that Atheists are jerks. I'm sure they're not but this doesn't help.

**clively**

My wife and I attended a unitarian universalism church for a month a few years back. I'm not entirely sure why but I guess she felt the need to attend some type of church. We grew up in primarily christian households; but neither of us could be considered "practicing" anything with regards to religion. Quite frankly, our kids are raised Agnostic much to our parents disgust.

It was a little different, with attendees ranging from jews, muslims, christians, atheists, and others.

We decided to attend a couple of introductory classes to see what it was about. In the last one we went to the "pastor" said,

"Once you understand what this group of people are about you will probably come to a point where you realize that there really isn't any reason to be here. No one here is going to claim to know the answers and no one is going to push their ideology on to you. Instead we will just sing a few songs, talk about the world today and be at peace with each other."

He was right, I can do that at home, so we stopped going. I already have friends and didn't need to donate to a building to get more. This sounds pretty much exactly like the "church" in those articles.

At the end of the day, everyone has their own set of beliefs (or lack thereof) which is an entirely personal thing. Just don't foist your ideas of life (or beyond) on me and I'll refrain from throwing mine in your face.

**Monster Rain**

Palindrome wrote:
Frazzled wrote:
. It just reinforces the stereotype.

What stereotype would that be? Christians being easily offended?

Delicious irony.

**d-usa**

What is it with irony today?

**Monster Rain**

Just thought I'd get in on the festivities.

**Rainbow Dash**

so what atheism is a religion now?
I don't believe in god nor do I go to any church or building at a set time and sing songs and have books read to me
i sleep on sunday
what do I call that now?!

**Hlaine Larkin mk2**

Rainbow Dash wrote:
so what atheism is a religion now?
I don't believe in god nor do I go to any church or building at a set time and sing songs and have books read to me
i sleep on sunday
what do I call that now?!

Hangover blues?

**Rainbow Dash**

Hlaine Larkin mk2 wrote:
Rainbow Dash wrote:
so what atheism is a religion now?
I don't believe in god nor do I go to any church or building at a set time and sing songs and have books read to me
i sleep on sunday
what do I call that now?!

Hangover blues?

I don't drink

**Manchu**

Jurgen Habermas wrote:Universalistic egalitarianism, from which sprang the ideals of freedom and a collective life in solidarity, the autonomous conduct of life and emancipation, the individual morality of conscience, human rights and democracy, is the direct legacy of the Judaic ethic of justice and the Christian ethic of love. This legacy, substantially unchanged, has been the object of continual critical appropriation and reinterpretation. To this day, there is no alternative to it. And in light of the current challenges of a postnational constellation, we continue to draw on the substance of this heritage. Everything else is just idle postmodern talk.

**Ahtman**

Don't bring history or reality into this! It is about having a strong opinion based on a very myopic view centered on modern religion, not an exploration of a core component of human existence spanning our recorded existence.

**Lt. Coldfire**

LordofHats wrote:
Since atheism is the belief in nothing supernatural why are they having classes/fellowships/meetings etc on it at all? "There is no god or spiritual afterlife." Okay guys that concludes our sermon today. All they can really do is sit around smugly and do all the things a church does, claim their not a church, and bash the churches they claim their not... so... Ultimate Trolling Achieved?

Mockery. I was a Christian for over 20 years and now that I'm an atheist it's hard not to mock. Things like talking snakes/donkeys, floating zoos, giants, 900 year old men, ect, are really open game for mockery. I think a lot of it has to do with my feeling of being duped for the vast majority of my life. If something like this gather of mockery was near me, I'd definitely go at least a few times.

They sing popular songs, read classic books and give a lesson on science. Sounds more entertaining than singing songs about the same guy and reading the same book, no?